R8 competition heats up.

[Leadfoot]

The R8 will rule all of the above because of the quality of the Brand. Audi is moving ahead of BMW as Europe's top main-stream sportscar manufacturer and with the R8 will be battling Porsche and Ferrari for the top spot. Honda's last NSX was amazing for two reasons, it's ability and it's lack of sales, the Lexus will be amazing with it's total lack of understand what makes a great sportscar, it will no doubt be very refined with no soul.

The one to watch will be the GTR, it's will tick all of the boxes, looks, feel, entertainment, grip, power and acceleration, the only one that might be out of it's reach is a really good top speed, it's shape just doesn't look that aerodynamic. But who cares when the rest will be so good. Even if it does beat the R8 in a roadtest it will be the Audi that will capture your hearts.

[KiwiRS4]

If you want a Japper thats fine, but to me it would be a cold day in hell before I own a japper over an Audi.

Just my two cents worth.

Ned

[Damienr8]

"the Lexus will be amazing with it's total lack of understand what makes a great sportscar, it will no doubt be very refined with no soul."

LOL nice one Leadfoot!

[sticky]

The R8 will rule all of the above because of the quality of the Brand. Audi is moving ahead of BMW as Europe's top main-stream sportscar manufacturer and with the R8 will be battling Porsche and Ferrari for the top spot. Honda's last NSX was amazing for two reasons, it's ability and it's lack of sales, the Lexus will be amazing with it's total lack of understand what makes a great sportscar, it will no doubt be very refined with no soul.

The one to watch will be the GTR, it's will tick all of the boxes, looks, feel, entertainment, grip, power and acceleration, the only one that might be out of it's reach is a really good top speed, it's shape just doesn't look that aerodynamic. But who cares when the rest will be so good. Even if it does beat the R8 in a roadtest it will be the Audi that will capture your hearts.

Uh, one step at a time, the car isn't even here yet. And another thing, one limited production car doesn't make you the top manufacturer. Audi has a long way to go to catch BMW. The S6 barely matches up with a 550i. The 335i is spanking S4's. The new M3 is coming to lay the smack down on the RS4. Not to mention that BMW's will always be the purer driving car with RWD, less weight, and having weight in the right spot to begin with. You are getting way ahead of yourself, and supposedly BMW is at work on a mid engine car using a 5.5 liter of the M5 V10 which is the best V10 out (short of carrera GT.)

The R8 is the first audi to not have all it's damn weight in the front.

[Finalmix]

Uh, one step at a time, the car isn't even here yet. And another thing, one limited production car doesn't make you the top manufacturer. Audi has a long way to go to catch BMW. The S6 barely matches up with a 550i. The 335i is spanking S4's. The new M3 is coming to lay the smack down on the RS4. Not to mention that BMW's will always be the purer driving car with RWD, less weight, and having weight in the right spot to begin with. You are getting way ahead of yourself, and supposedly BMW is at work on a mid engine car using a 5.5 liter of the M5 V10 which is the best V10 out (short of carrera GT.)

The R8 is the first audi to not have all it's damn weight in the front.

That info may be true, but BMWs have always been a bandwagon brand to me where as Audi has that extra touch. I rather pull up in a MTM modded RS4 than a 2008 M3 anyday. (downsyndrome looking tail lamps, lol...)

[sticky]

That info may be true, but BMWs have always been a bandwagon brand to me where as Audi has that extra touch. I rather pull up in a MTM modded RS4 than a 2008 M3 anyday. (downsyndrome looking tail lamps, lol...)

True of course, if you want exclusivity audi has that over BMW to an extent. There are plusses and minuses to this, aftermarket, places to service, etc.

[Leadfoot]

Uh, one step at a time, the car isn't even here yet. And another thing, one limited production car doesn't make you the top manufacturer. Audi has a long way to go to catch BMW. The S6 barely matches up with a 550i. The 335i is spanking S4's. The new M3 is coming to lay the smack down on the RS4. Not to mention that BMW's will always be the purer driving car with RWD, less weight, and having weight in the right spot to begin with. You are getting way ahead of yourself, and supposedly BMW is at work on a mid engine car using a 5.5 liter of the M5 V10 which is the best V10 out (short of carrera GT.)

The R8 is the first audi to not have all it's damn weight in the front.

Oh, please. The S6 as already won in two tests against the M5 never mind the 550i in Germany, ok it might not be as quick but if that's your only agrument then give up. The 335i against the S4 that will be interesting but it has beat the old M3 so if the 335i has the better of the S4 then too the M3. We will have to see if the new one can lay the smack down on the RS4 as you put it, but that will be short lived as the S5 will be out soon.

To say the rwd is the purer driving experience, in what sport? Anytime awd has entered a form of motorsport it has destroyed the competition and been banned, that is apart from rallying which, oh yes is done on roads & forests. Your being suckered into BMW ads if you think 50/50 weight is the holy grail of what makes the pure driving experience, just ask Porsche about that.

[Damienr8]

Oh, please. The S6 as already won in two tests against the M5 never mind the 550i in Germany, ok it might not be as quick but if that's your only agrument then give up. The 335i against the S4 that will be interesting but it has beat the old M3 so if the 335i has the better of the S4 then too the M3. We will have to see if the new one can lay the smack down on the RS4 as you put it, but that will be short lived as the S5 will be out soon.

To say the rwd is the purer driving experience, in what sport? Anytime awd has entered a form of motorsport it has destroyed the competition and been banned, that is apart from rallying which, oh yes is done on roads & forests. Your being suckered into BMW ads if you think 50/50 weight is the holy grail of what makes the pure driving experience, just ask Porsche about that.

Nice reply Leadfood, I would have came up with something like this but I was fairly busy finishing up some work. And yes, 50/50 weight distribution is not the holy grail of what makes a driving experience pure. Its a culmination of more than just that one factor. Ahh, back to work. *Whip crack*

[sticky]

Oh, please. The S6 as already won in two tests against the M5 never mind the 550i in Germany, ok it might not be as quick but if that's your only agrument then give up. The 335i against the S4 that will be interesting but it has beat the old M3 so if the 335i has the better of the S4 then too the M3. We will have to see if the new one can lay the smack down on the RS4 as you put it, but that will be short lived as the S5 will be out soon.

To say the rwd is the purer driving experience, in what sport? Anytime awd has entered a form of motorsport it has destroyed the competition and been banned, that is apart from rallying which, oh yes is done on roads & forests. Your being suckered into BMW ads if you think 50/50 weight is the holy grail of what makes the pure driving experience, just ask Porsche about that.

Audi got banned in their rally racing. Winning a race has nothing to do with how the car feels when YOU drive it. I really don't think you are taking your audi and entering it in a race everytime you hit the road. It should be very simple to understand that RWD is lighter, allows more power to the wheels, and allows easy power on correction.

Porsche puts their motors in the back, so don't know how you are using this to bolster your argument. Out of manufacturers that put their motor in the front, BMW is the most consistent at keeping a perfect weight distribution. One thing we can agree on, Audi's understeer compared to BMW's due to the weight in the front.

Did you read the tests where the S6 won? What pushed the S6 over? It certainly wasn't the performance as the M5 is in a different league. It was the price, when that is taken out of the equation, the S6 matches up better with a 550i and e550 than an M5 or E63. Those cars both are cheaper and offer up the same performance. You are insane if you think the S6 even holds a candle to the M5 or E63, the performance difference is worlds apart, and perfomance is what the M5 and E63 are about.

[Leadfoot]

Audi got banned in their rally racing. Winning a race has nothing to do with how the car feels when YOU drive it. I really don't think you are taking your audi and entering it in a race everytime you hit the road. It should be very simple to understand that RWD is lighter, allows more power to the wheels, and allows easy power on correction.

Porsche puts their motors in the back, so don't know how you are using this to bolster your argument. Out of manufacturers that put their motor in the front, BMW is the most consistent at keeping a perfect weight distribution. One thing we can agree on, Audi's understeer compared to BMW's due to the weight in the front.

Did you read the tests where the S6 won? What pushed the S6 over? It certainly wasn't the performance as the M5 is in a different league. It was the price, when that is taken out of the equation, the S6 matches up better with a 550i and e550 than an M5 or E63. Those cars both are cheaper and offer up the same performance. You are insane if you think the S6 even holds a candle to the M5 or E63, the performance difference is worlds apart, and performance is what the M5 and E63 are about.

Let me answer each point made by you as best I can.

Firstly agreed we don't rally our cars every time we take them on the road, but the point was more that awd is the choice of all leading manufacturers so proves it advantage over rwd especially on road use and in all weather conditions. As for easier power on corrections, hello, if you have ever watched the FifthGear video of the M3 vs RS4 you will see the M3 produced a 38degree slid angle where as the RS4 recovered from a 90degree slid angle, now which is the easier to power on correct.

Secondly Porsche reference was used to prove that you don't need 50/50 weight balance to produce a perfect driving experience. As for your argument that BMWs understeer less than Audis do because of this perfect balance you talk about. Audi engineer understeer in for safety, something that BMW are starting to do, fwd or awd don't have to understeer because of this weight balance, the Integra Type-R doesn't and neither does the EVOs, it is Audi's choice to have understeer something I think most people are thankful of.

Thirdly the S6 vs M5 debate. As I have already said the S6 can't match the M5 on out right performance but on a recent test around a test track it all but matched the M5 and all this with an extra 150kgs and 80 less horsepower. If you put the test to a twisty road where there is no run off areas or gravel traps then yes I do think the S6 will be more than a match for the M5. You keep forgetting that most of the people who buy this cars aren't Arton Senna etc, they are normal and this is where the extra safety and confidence of awd pay big time and no 50/50 weight balance, rwd or all the might of your Ultimate Driving Machine will ever beat that.

And lastly you say that the S6 shouldn't be in the same leagues of the M5 or E63amg, well you are back to your pub figures argument, mines quicker than yours. If that's your only defense then you can keep your M5 etc and good luck to you, but no thanks I prefer quality not quantity.

Sticky, I don't know where all this argumentative side has come from but at last count I think you has got the back up on about 6 people and that's the ones that are replying to you. Take some QuietLife and watch some fish, you really need to take it easy.

[sticky]

Let me answer each point made by you as best I can.

Firstly agreed we don't rally our cars every time we take them on the road, but the point was more that awd is the choice of all leading manufacturers so proves it advantage over rwd especially on road use and in all weather conditions. As for easier power on corrections, hello, if you have ever watched the FifthGear video of the M3 vs RS4 you will see the M3 produced a 38degree slid angle where as the RS4 recovered from a 90degree slid angle, now which is the easier to power on correct.

Secondly Porsche reference was used to prove that you don't need 50/50 weight balance to produce a perfect driving experience. As for your argument that BMWs understeer less than Audis do because of this perfect balance you talk about. Audi engineer understeer in for safety, something that BMW are starting to do, fwd or awd don't have to understeer because of this weight balance, the Integra Type-R doesn't and neither does the EVOs, it is Audi's choice to have understeer something I think most people are thankful of.

Thirdly the S6 vs M5 debate. As I have already said the S6 can't match the M5 on out right performance but on a recent test around a test track it all but matched the M5 and all this with an extra 150kgs and 80 less horsepower. If you put the test to a twisty road where there is no run off areas or gravel traps then yes I do think the S6 will be more than a match for the M5. You keep forgetting that most of the people who buy this cars aren't Arton Senna etc, they are normal and this is where the extra safety and confidence of awd pay big time and no 50/50 weight balance, rwd or all the might of your Ultimate Driving Machine will ever beat that.

And lastly you say that the S6 shouldn't be in the same leagues of the M5 or E63amg, well you are back to your pub figures argument, mines quicker than yours. If that's your only defense then you can keep your M5 etc and good luck to you, but no thanks I prefer quality not quantity.

Sticky, I don't know where all this argumentative side has come from but at last count I think you has got the back up on about 6 people and that's the ones that are replying to you. Take some QuietLife and watch some fish, you really need to take it easy.

I like a good discusison I'm not going to run over to your home and beat you with your keyboard.

I'll address each one of your points now:

1. The RS4 recovered from a larger slide, it wasn't as CONTROLLABLE when sliding. He basically pitched the car sideways, he would not be able to sustain a longer drift or correct with power. Yes, traction allows recovery but the 4WD is not friendly for sideways shenanigans or power on oversteer.

2. Audi traditionally has had their weight up front. They still do, the R8 is the first car to break this mold. Audi's understeer isn't just there for safety, it is how physics apply when the weight is on the front wheels. BMW's understeer as well, just as a much higher limit allowing for the most part a higher cornering limit. Every major auto manufacturer has a level of understeer dialed in for safety. With electronic nannies you have to turn them off to really get yourself into trouble, with which how good these systems are getting I don't see a reason to turn the stability control off to gain a 1/10 of a second if you are a pro driver around a circuit. The integra type R does understeer, but very minimally and at the limit as it is superbly balanced. All FWD's do to an extent, how wouldn't they?

3. One thing we can agree on is the performance difference, as it is can't really be disputed. These are performance cars, if you just want the comfort and safety, a standard A6 will do nicely. Styling and all the others are subjective and the S6 is a beauty inside and out. I have never owned an AWD cars (my SUV's aside of course) and don't see any reason to. Perhaps I am in the minority saying I would prefer a lighter, RWD R8. Where I live it rarely rains and I can have summer tires on all year. From a purely performance standpoint, the M5 stands above. I am all for the RS6 to come, and come quickly, as the S6 really doesn't have the power to take the crown. I am patiently waiting for Audi to respond to the 63's and M5's and I am sure they will.

[Cale24]

Uh, one step at a time, the car isn't even here yet. And another thing, one limited production car doesn't make you the top manufacturer. Audi has a long way to go to catch BMW. The S6 barely matches up with a 550i. The 335i is spanking S4's. The new M3 is coming to lay the smack down on the RS4. Not to mention that BMW's will always be the purer driving car with RWD, less weight, and having weight in the right spot to begin with. You are getting way ahead of yourself, and supposedly BMW is at work on a mid engine car using a 5.5 liter of the M5 V10 which is the best V10 out (short of carrera GT.)

The R8 is the first audi to not have all it's damn weight in the front.

The car isnt even here yet, yes, and neither is this 'supposed' V10 BMW supercar, which is even further from reality and yet you discuss it? As for Audi having a long way to go to 'match' BMW, thats subjectivity if ever. Why does a B6 S4 lap the Top Gear race track faster than an E46 M3? Why does the latest RS4 beat an E60 M5 and M3 CSL(E46) while also getting stellar reviews, even from former BMW owners? The two companies both make great cars and will always one-up each other with a new model. The new E90 M3 4 door is the accurate match for the B7 RS4- lets see who wins (and the latter looks, from what I have seen of the M3, ten trillion times better). The S5/ RS5 will take care of the new M3 coupe, you can count on it. Concerning RWD vs Quattro, both have advatages of their own. And in case you didn't know, BMW xi/ xd models have their weight in the same place as an Audi, thanks to four wheel drive requirements. Plus, the R8 will thump an M6 anywhere, I'd bet my life on it.
Long way to go? Before you know it, BMW will have a long way to go to catch up.

[sticky]

The car isnt even here yet, yes, and neither is this 'supposed' V10 BMW supercar, which is even further from reality and yet you discuss it? As for Audi having a long way to go to 'match' BMW, thats subjectivity if ever. Why does a B6 S4 lap the Top Gear race track faster than an E46 M3? Why does the latest RS4 beat an E60 M5 and M3 CSL(E46) while also getting stellar reviews, even from former BMW owners? The two companies both make great cars and will always one-up each other with a new model. The new E90 M3 4 door is the accurate match for the B7 RS4- lets see who wins (and the latter looks, from what I have seen of the M3, ten trillion times better). The S5/ RS5 will take care of the new M3 coupe, you can count on it. Concerning RWD vs Quattro, both have advatages of their own. And in case you didn't know, BMW xi/ xd models have their weight in the same place as an Audi, thanks to four wheel drive requirements. Plus, the R8 will thump an M6 anywhere, I'd bet my life on it.
Long way to go? Before you know it, BMW will have a long way to go to catch up.

Why does the S4 lap the top gear test track faster? BECAUSE THAT TRACK IS ALWAYS WET. Hello, they are in England. I had an e46 m3, S4's don't come close. The B6 S4 weighs more, puts out less power to the wheels, and has worse weight distribution. What, the car defy's the laws of physics?

I mentioned BMW's proposed car in response to a post where the person was mentioning a proposed vehicle as well. Reading comprehension...

The RS4 is a stellar car, I never said it wasn't. All audi's are stellar cars, I think you are missing my point. The RS4 is boat loads of fun to drive, but the M5 is much faster. Around a track, the RS4 has a good chance to win depending on the track (tighter advantage audi, longer straights, M5.) As far as E90 M3 vs. B7 RS4 the smart mans money is on the M3 as if the battle is anything like the B6 S4 vs. E46 M3 it is an easy BMW victory. 7 speed SMG plus v8 version of the M5 v10? Bye, bye RS4.

The R8 will trump the M6 in all aspects? I will buy you a drink if this is the case as I am on the list for the R8 and would love nothing more. It isn't going to beat the M6 in a straight line race or on the top end, come on, it would have to beat the gallardo to do so. Around a track of course it will win, this is a given it weighs much less and has the weight where it should be.