Video + pics: Audi RS5 spied

[Ritchy]

Except in term of Elegance....

[KresoF1]

In every way you look at it, the RS5 will be nothing special compare to a C63.

And you drove so you know it?

NO! Of course you did not. You are just making assumption based on your OWN state of mind.

Just because non of your prediciton in terms of future Audi models become a reality does not mean that some other Audi enthusiasts will like or even love new RS5.

...also this-IMHO Audi will not produce a car for you in some distant future(very light with manual gearbox and R5 TSI with 400ps).

[Leadfoot]

In every way you look at it, the RS5 will be nothing special compare to a C63.

Are you meaning the whole car or simply the two engines?

I don't agree with you on either count but if it's solely the engines then you must be basing your opinion on output alone because on most other things the 4.2 far exceeds the C63, like hp/litre and rev range, it will probably be even more economical too.

One thing that is holding the C63 back from being a great car is it's gearbox, one area that the S/Tronic driven RS5 will be exceptional. By all accounts the RS5 well be amazing and when Audi adopt their light weight philosiphy then future RS models will be the only car worth considering.

Imagine an RS5 with the weight of a TT/S and the perfect weight over each axle for something equipped with a quattro that can shift it's power fully in either direction and from side to side on either axle.

One can only but dream.

[The Pretender]

Imagine an RS5 with the weight of a TT/S and the perfect weight over each axle for something equipped with a quattro that can shift it's power fully in either direction and from side to side on either axle.

One can only but dream.

Future dreams, this RS5 will be a heavy dog.

[Leadfoot]

Future dreams, this RS5 will be a heavy dog.

Probably you will be right but you never can tell.

[KresoF1]

Probably you will be right but you never can tell.

Weight of new RS5 is on the same level as S5 V8 Coupe.

Acceleration wise on the same level as R8 V8(or even little bit faster).

Track wise faster then M3 MDCT, C63, TT RS etc.

NOT enough? In that case my advice is Porsche 997.2 Turbo PDK-awsome car indeed as you will see in forthcomng tests in next few weeks.

[Lmg]

Weight of new RS5 is on the same level as S5 V8 Coupe.

Acceleration wise on the same level as R8 V8(or even little bit faster).

Track wise faster then M3 MDCT, C63, TT RS etc.

Thanks for the info!

So, this means that the RS5's curb weight will be around 1640 kg?

[The Pretender]

Thanks for the info!

So, this means that the RS5's curb weight will be around 1640 kg?

And in the real world that means 1700+.

btw, no chance the RS5 will be faster then the TT RS.

[Lmg]

And in the real world that means 1700+..

Yes, with driver included, it will be around 1715 kg. Still lighter than the C 63 AMG, for instance.

btw, no chance the RS5 will be faster then the TT RS.

What makes you so sure of this?

[Leadfoot]

And in the real world that means 1700+.

btw, no chance the RS5 will be faster then the TT RS.

Are we talking standard car to standard car or is this all about tuning ability because I doubt the 340hp TT/RS would be capable of out running the 450hp RS5.

[RXBG]

C63 will be faster in the straight. quattro drivetrain loss is the reason. figure 10% hp loss via quattro. therefore it would need about 500 hp to overcome the difference. torque is also another thing, and the C63 will have the RS5 beat there. in the handling dept the RS5 will, i expect, hand the C63 its ass- on any track- since the RS4 was already neck and neck with the C63 in that dept.

if you want a straight line speed beating car just get a Z06 at that price range. then you'll be happy- till you hit the wall going around a curve trying to keep up with a car that can turn.

ps- it is so sad to these poor M5's and M6's and E63's on the track. they are impressive and intimidating at the start line. but when the going gets tough they look like pussycats in the rear view mirror.

- when the going gets tough, the tough get quattro.

[Leadfoot]

RXBG,

This assumption all depends on how the RS5 has it's S/Tronic geared. Assuming it's a proper 7 speed with 7th being the gear to reach the possible 300km/h and it requiring at least 6th to reach the 250km/h that would mean each of it's gears were higher than the C63's 7sp automatic which I think can reach 250km/h in 5th.

Next there is the transmission lose differences, S/Tronic should provide less lose than the automatic, don't know if it would counteract the lose due to quattro but it must close the gap a bit. Then there's slight difference in weight.

All in all I think if the race started from the traffic lights then the RS5 will probably win right up to the magic mile marker but on a rolling start it would be very very close indeed.

[RXBG]

Leadfoot,

They'd have to gear the DSG to shift right at the top of the torque curve for each gear, rather than redline. doing so would negate the point of the high rev limit in the first place. Audi put its eggs in the hp basket not the torque one in this case. Which is why DSG's are most useful in high hp charged engines.

I never said tranny losses would be the problem. The problem is in the drivetrain- quattro. Which is not really a problem unles all you are interested in is straight line accel. I don't think the DSG will compensate for that in any significant way. Again, DSG's (and slushboxes) come in handy in straight line accel in charged engines mainly- i.e. GTR, 997 TT. the DSG vs manual numbers are very similar in cars like the regular carrera and the M3 for instance.

If audi counteracts the quattro loss by decreasing weight in this car then maybe it will be neck and neck with the C63 in a straight line from a roll. Most regular joes will win in the RS5 anyway because stoplights races start from a stop- and there quattro has you.

[KresoF1]

They'd have to gear the DSG to shift right at the top of the torque curve for each gear, rather than redline. doing so would negate the point of the high rev limit in the first place. Audi put its eggs in the hp basket not the torque one in this case. Which is why DSG's are most useful in high hp charged engines.

Hmm... Not really...

997.2 Carrera S PDK: you have 6 shifting programms in total. 3 for auto use and 3 for manual use. In fastest Sport Plus programm in D(auto) mode PDK is shifting at rev limiter.

Ferrari California: Its DCT is basically doing the same thing in fastest mode as PDK. Just, in Ferrari case seventh gear is used for top speed and overall gearing is used for maximall performance.

Just, some might argue that in fact California is heavy pig and the only way to use its power and torque properly is with relatively short overall gearing of its DCT.
997.2 Carrera S engine is having good torque curve and much lower weight to schlepp so, it could use little bit longer overall gearing in PDK.

New Ferrari 458 Italia DCT is close relative to California unit and is using even more agressive gearing. Overall torque for 458 engine is world record for NA engines...

RS5 S Tronic?

It will be very interesting to see what approach quattro GmbH choose... BUT, my money is on the same way as Porsche....

[RXBG]

Hmm... Not really...

997.2 Carrera S PDK: you have 6 shifting programms in total. 3 for auto use and 3 for manual use. In fastest Sport Plus programm in D(auto) mode PDK is shifting at rev limiter.

i'd have to see the torque band on the porsche engine. it's one thing to rev through 6500 rpm (911) and a whole other to rev through 9000 rpm for every gear change- unless the engine can rev like a F1 car (a perfect example of a low torque engine being maximized through extremely fast shifting to overcome the torque deficit- via the exploitation of horsepower). if the torque is 330 in the RS5 (as i expect) and it peaks at 4500-6500 but revs to 9000 RPM (as has been suggested) it wont make much difference.

also, the percent of the time the max torque is accessible in the porsche (peaks at 4,400 rpm) relative to its rev limit is likely much higher than in the RS5. unless this engine revs like the R8 V10's i don't see much point in making it rev to redline each time unless computer models say it is faster. i am no engineer. regardless of what it does i still think straight line speed will not be its forte (not that it will be slow by any strectch of the imagination).

the F car has more torque and revs like a banshee. but can't compare well because there is no manual version to compare to.

[KresoF1]

i'd have to see the torque band on the porsche engine. it's one thing to rev through 6500 rpm (911) and a whole other to rev through 9000 rpm for every gear change- unless the engine can rev like a F1 car (a perfect example of a low torque engine being maximized through extremely fast shifting to overcome the torque deficit- via the exploitation of horsepower). if the torque is 330 in the RS5 (as i expect) and it peaks at 4500-6500 but revs to 9000 RPM (as has been suggested) it wont make much difference.

also, the percent of the time the max torque is accessible in the porsche (peaks at 4,400 rpm) relative to its rev limit is likely much higher than in the RS5. unless this engine revs like the R8 V10's i don't see much point in making it rev to redline each time unless computer models say it is faster. i am no engineer. regardless of what it does i still think straight line speed will not be its forte (not that it will be slow by any strectch of the imagination).

the F car has more torque and revs like a banshee. but can't compare well because there is no manual version to compare to.

Just one correction-max revs on 997.2 CS engine is 7400rpm.

BTW, after 200km/h power is what matters, NOT turque or even aerodynamics.

Little example-try to overtake new Cayenne Turbo S with your R8 V8 at 250km/h... I did... And I could not. Cayenne Turbo S driver pressed the throttle and belive it or not truck was two car lenghts in front of me.

[RXBG]

Just one correction-max revs on 997.2 CS engine is 7400rpm.

BTW, after 200km/h power is what matters, NOT turque or even aerodynamics.

Little example-try to overtake new Cayenne Turbo S with your R8 V8 at 250km/h... I did... And I could not. Cayenne Turbo S driver pressed the throttle and belive it or not truck was two car lenghts in front of me.

i was referring to the non S carrera, but 1200 rpms might split the difference.

re: the example- that's why i ordered the V10

[KresoF1]

re: the example- that's why i ordered the V10

I know.

BUT, against 997.2 Turbo PDK even R8 V10 do not have any chance at all in straight line at any speed.

BTW, forthcoming Sport Auto test will also show that 997.2 Turbo PDK is faster on both Hockenheim and Nordschleife then R8 V10(be it manual or R Tronic).