R8 5.2 V10 Fsi.

[sticky]

sticky,

I am at a lose, in what way do BMW have a better track car record over Audi. One example the CSL is better than any previous Audi road car and that is it.

The S3 & R32 are both quicker than the 130i M/Sport (Similar power)

The RS4 is quicker than the M5 and equal to the M6 which has semi-race tyres, oh yes and 93hp more.

The S4 has beaten the M3 by 0.9s around the Top Gear track. Yes the M3 was quicker on the ring, but as this was the Avant which is 120kgs heavier than the saloon it's not a similar example.

I have said on more than one occasion that steering feel is over-rated and this comes from years driving Karts which have the maximum amount of feel. Feel is an Alley on the track were the surface is extremely smooth but on a normal road surface which is rough and bumpy steering feel make for a nervous car when the suspension isn't in perfect tune. Porsche has mastered this, but alas no BMW I have experienced is the equal of a Porsche. Maybe that is what makes the CSL so special.

Anyone and I mean anyone will drive a RS4 or S4 quicker than an M6 or M3 down a given road because they aren't nervous, that builds confidence and help average drivers perform better. If BMW are looking for only the best of drivers to drive their cars than they should change their slogan to something like this 'THE ULTIMATE DRIVING MACHINE, ONLY THE ULTIMATE DRIVER APPLY'.

Look, I am not going to discuss the 1 series as it isn't available in the US and I have no experience with it. Plus when discussing performance BMW's, the 1 series is rarely what is brought up in the first place.

The RS4 being quicker than the M5 or M6? Crazy talk, the only tracks where the RS4 can hang with the M5 have to be extremely tight. The RS4 doesn't exactly have a weight advantage over the M6 either and both of the M's are better balanced.

The top gear track is WET! I sure hope an AWD car beats a RWD car on a wet course. The S4 isn't coming near an M3 on a track. I had an M3, I'm not quoting numbers from Top Gear, I know this first hand as does anyone who has ever been on a track with an B6/B7 S4 and an E46 M3. I won't even get into the CSL.

Steering feel is overrated? What are you talking about? What do you think the point of paying the big bucks for a porsche is? You know what the car is doing at all times, and steering feel inspires confidence. I sure can push a car harder when I have great feedback. I would say steering feel is of extreme importance in a sports car.

I can't wait for the E90 M3 to come out to once again set things straight.

[Erik]

He isn't insulting anyone or being derogatory simply stating his opinion. He should go away because it conflicts with yours? Is your idea of a good automotive forum one where everyone shares the same view? Wow, that would make for great discussions...

What's the point of writing "BMW is the best" and nothing else in an Audi forum? How mature is that?

I don't need anymore trolls here, and I think you know what I mean.

The topic is "R8 5.2 V10 FSI" - let's stick to that or this thread is closed.

[Leadfoot]

Look, I am not going to discuss the 1 series as it isn't available in the US and I have no experience with it. Plus when discussing performance BMW's, the 1 series is rarely what is brought up in the first place.

The RS4 being quicker than the M5 or M6? Crazy talk, the only tracks where the RS4 can hang with the M5 have to be extremely tight. The RS4 doesn't exactly have a weight advantage over the M6 either and both of the M's are better balanced.

The top gear track is WET! I sure hope an AWD car beats a RWD car on a wet course. The S4 isn't coming near an M3 on a track. I had an M3, I'm not quoting numbers from Top Gear, I know this first hand as does anyone who has ever been on a track with an B6/B7 S4 and an E46 M3. I won't even get into the CSL.

Steering feel is overrated? What are you talking about? What do you think the point of paying the big bucks for a Porsche is? You know what the car is doing at all times, and steering feel inspires confidence. I sure can push a car harder when I have great feedback. I would say steering feel is of extreme importance in a sports car.

I can't wait for the E90 M3 to come out to once again set things straight.

As the 1series is basically a shortened 3series complete with the same suspension I believe it is very relevant and proves without doubt that BMW aren't all they are cracked up to be.

The S4 vs M3 was on a DRY Top Gear track and again proves that the M3 is not all it's cracked up to be.

The ring is not a tight short circuit, it very long with mostly open curves with drips and humps things which should help in your words well balanced cars and has extremely long straights which again should help the M5/6 with their extra power, but quite plainly doesn't so once again a BMW car is highly over-rated.

Steering feel is over-rated and become a problem when the suspension can't flow with the car and kicks back, this was my point why it works with the Porsche but don't with the BMW or Audi for that matter. Only the TT and the R8 with their magnetic ride suspension come up to the standard that is present in every Porsche.

As I also said steering feel is very important on a track where the surface is extremely smooth as there is little kick back to dilute the signals of what the front wheels are doing, but when the surface is rough and bumpy you can't tell what is really going on so less feel improves your other senses like the seat of your pants. I can tell what the car is doing through this as much as steering feel and as I said Karting gives the kind of feel that no production car will ever provide but to have this amount on the road would be impossible to deal with.

Some people see rwd as a plus over awd and vice-versa, the same applies to steering feel. Just don't be fooled into thinking it's the be all and end all. There's more to a car than steering feel as anyone who has owned a Porsche will know.

[Leadfoot]

What's the point of writing "BMW is the best" and nothing else in an Audi forum? How mature is that?

I don't need anymore trolls here, and I think you know what I mean.

The topic is "R8 5.2 V10 FSI" - let's stick to that or this thread is closed.

Fair point Erik, the matter is close as far as I am concerned. I was only trying to defend my belief about steering feel and why it over-rated.

[RXBG]

leadfoot and sticky. i invite one of you to post a rwd VS awd discussion in the off-topic or racing forum. i agree with erik, it is getting a bit off the mark. please.

no more on this issue in this thread, not even apologies or thanks or whatever.

just start a new thread in the appropriate forum so that others can contribute, others who may have a lot to say but have not been able to because they don't know about this polemic you have going.

[Leadfoot]

OK, back on topic.

Does anyone know if the v8 and v10 will be the only models in the range or will there be a v6 or TDi version?

I know quite a few would like to see a v12TDi version but I for one would reckon a v6 would destroy everything Audi are trying to build with this car.

[BSR]

I think that a lot of folks would like to see the 12c V12 in this car, myself included. But, i think it might be too big of an engine to fit.

I would think that Audi 'could' do some real damage with this car w/ a twin turbo V6..... but that could end up with too much hp and torque- so much so that the V8 would get over shadowed. The old 2.7t from the B5 RS4 would make for a faster R8 than the current V8. (Turbo Torque)

RB

[sticky]

What's the point of writing "BMW is the best" and nothing else in an Audi forum? How mature is that?

I don't need anymore trolls here, and I think you know what I mean.

The topic is "R8 5.2 V10 FSI" - let's stick to that or this thread is closed.

Anyone who is here likes cars, period. If this thread needs to be closed due to auto enthusiasts discussing their points of views this forum shouldn't exist.

BMW came up due to the natural comparison between their v10 and the v10 that will go in the r8.

[sticky]

As the 1series is basically a shortened 3series complete with the same suspension I believe it is very relevant and proves without doubt that BMW aren't all they are cracked up to be.

The S4 vs M3 was on a DRY Top Gear track and again proves that the M3 is not all it's cracked up to be.

The ring is not a tight short circuit, it very long with mostly open curves with drips and humps things which should help in your words well balanced cars and has extremely long straights which again should help the M5/6 with their extra power, but quite plainly doesn't so once again a BMW car is highly over-rated.

Steering feel is over-rated and become a problem when the suspension can't flow with the car and kicks back, this was my point why it works with the Porsche but don't with the BMW or Audi for that matter. Only the TT and the R8 with their magnetic ride suspension come up to the standard that is present in every Porsche.

As I also said steering feel is very important on a track where the surface is extremely smooth as there is little kick back to dilute the signals of what the front wheels are doing, but when the surface is rough and bumpy you can't tell what is really going on so less feel improves your other senses like the seat of your pants. I can tell what the car is doing through this as much as steering feel and as I said Karting gives the kind of feel that no production car will ever provide but to have this amount on the road would be impossible to deal with.

Some people see rwd as a plus over awd and vice-versa, the same applies to steering feel. Just don't be fooled into thinking it's the be all and end all. There's more to a car than steering feel as anyone who has owned a Porsche will know.

Are you seeing different ring numbers than I am? The RS4 doesn't even come close to the CSL, and the M6 is ahead of the RS4.

The top gear Test I saw was on a wet track. But either way, lets put it this way. Do you think a heavier car, with worse balance, that understeers, and has less power to the wheels is going to outhandle a lighter, rwd car, better balanced, with greater acceleration? Come on, think logically here. I beat so many S4's in so many sitautions in my E46 that I lost count. It is common knowledge the S4 is slower in every measurable performance aspect.

I don't see RWD as the be all end all but if we are talking about track performance, it is going to be the preferred setup due to less wait, more power to the wheels, and the abilitiy to correct with power. AWD can do well on a track, but remember AUDI's AWD domination of racing was rally racing not touring. AWD can give someone a lot of confidence and allow them to go faster than they normally would.

[sticky]

I think that a lot of folks would like to see the 12c V12 in this car, myself included. But, i think it might be too big of an engine to fit.

I would think that Audi 'could' do some real damage with this car w/ a twin turbo V6..... but that could end up with too much hp and torque- so much so that the V8 would get over shadowed. The old 2.7t from the B5 RS4 would make for a faster R8 than the current V8. (Turbo Torque)

RB

Are you referring to the diesel twin turbo v12?

[BSR]

yes, the Diesel 12.

[Erik]

Are you seeing different ring numbers than I am? The RS4 doesn't even come close to the CSL, and the M6 is ahead of the RS4.

The M6 and the RS4 have the same time around Nordschleife (sport auto).
And they are on the same tires (Pirelli P Zero Corsa), but the RS4 has a 87 hp disadvantage.

http://www.einszweidrei.de/

RS4
http://www.einszweidrei.de/audi/audirs4limst2006-1.htm

M6
http://www.einszweidrei.de/bmw/bmwm6cpst2005-1.htm

But we are hardly on the subject of the thread now are we?

[Leadfoot]

sticky,

I have put this argument to bed and I reckon you should do the same. If we can't even agree on the official data from SportAuto regarding to times set by the cars then it is so obvious that we will not agree on the subject, you prefer BMWs and I prefer Audis so lets agree to disagree.

But it does bag the question 'why are you here?'

I am done on the subject

[sticky]

sticky,

I have put this argument to bed and I reckon you should do the same. If we can't even agree on the official data from SportAuto regarding to times set by the cars then it is so obvious that we will not agree on the subject, you prefer BMWs and I prefer Audis so lets agree to disagree.

But it does bag the question 'why are you here?'

I am done on the subject

Honestly, I don't have sport auto numbers so I can't comment on them. I'll take a look at their website. I think you will see different lap times from different mags using different drivers on different days providing different numbers due to the cumulative different variables.

I wasn't attempting to get into an argument but more of a discussion. Either way, I think straights favor one car a bit more than tight turns favor the other.

I am here because I have an R8 on order. Obviously I don't hate Audi but that doesn't mean I need to be blind as to how their lineup realisticaly stacks up to BMW's from an overall performance perspective. The R8 might catch the eyes of a lot of people who previously did not take AUDI as seriously, that could be what it was in part designed to do.

I'm all for a V10 with some nice power, and all the more for the RS6 and R8 to share the rumored twin turbo V10.

Gladly putting it to bed.

[Leadfoot]

Sticky, I'm a bit shocked and surprised to hear you're ordered a R8 as your previous comments on the car where more like Audi should have done better in the face of the competition and with your strong views on rwd cars being better, but I am please you still made the move.

I hope that you will like your purchase and hopefully come round to our way of thinking regarding the brand. I believe that the R8 is a major turning point in which people like yourself will look at the brand in a differing light and see that there is more than pure figures that make a great car.

I look forward to your first post after driving the beast and believe it will live up to your very high expectations.

Unfortunately like your self I too have strong views which spill in to heated arguments, but no harm done.

[Erik]

I am here because I have an R8 on order.

Really? Congratulations!

Where do you live? US?

[RXBG]

no one in the USA has placed an order for the R8 as of today.

[Leadfoot]

Well there is a shit load of order here in the UK, in fact they already have more orders for this year than can be supplied. Now when did you last hear that about anything other than a Porsche or a Ferrari.