Muggy's RS6 Refresh 2020

[AudiPilot]

If Muggy wants to put a list together, I'll add it to the maintenance section on my website. Cheers

Eagerly awaiting your “been there” stuff-to-do-while-my-engine-is-out list... probable failing driver’s side turbo (way low MAF 2 airflow, credit to @nubcake for his work helping me log!) will likely result in an in-shop engine pull around September... my (past) preferred shop won’t work on it anymore, says Audi officially cut parts support at the end of 2020. And they won’t work unless they can order the OE-specified part. (Sounds more like a dealer than an indy shop!)

[RS8]

I do not think you can easily know which follower is bad, by just squeezing them together.
Because if the valves are open on 1 cylinder, then there is pressure there, so then the oil is squeezed out of these followers if the engine is switched off and stands for a while.


In the same way, you can now with a pair of pliers or in a vice you can compress those that are hard so the oil seeps out and then it becomes as soft as these you think are bad.

When I disassembled my engine, I pushed everyone together to get out of the old oil and then every follower became soft.
But if there is debris in the hole, it will not be filled with new oil, so try to check this.

[Muggy]

I do not think you can easily know which follower is bad, by just squeezing them together.
Because if the valves are open on 1 cylinder, then there is pressure there, so then the oil is squeezed out of these followers if the engine is switched off and stands for a while.


In the same way, you can now with a pair of pliers or in a vice you can compress those that are hard so the oil seeps out and then it becomes as soft as these you think are bad.

When I disassembled my engine, I pushed everyone together to get out of the old oil and then every follower became soft.
But if there is debris in the hole, it will not be filled with new oil, so try to check this.

I appreciate these thoughts and have been contemplating the same situation...the only thing that leaves me suspicious on this area is one of the 3 on the intake was still firm, but I totally agree that this could have been under load when shut down (valves open on the intake) and could have done a slow leak down which is not unusual. I do get a pretty good knock on rare occasions on a very cold start for about 20-30 seconds in this area, so hoping for the best when replacing all 3 on this cylinder....not too bad for $100 to try it out, but $1200 to do all 40 is nuts!

Hoping to have some time to work on it this afternoon and I'll focus on checking into these further as you suggest!

[rah]

I just caught on to this thread and will be following closely, very informational. As an RS6 owner, and if you plan on keeping the car, we will all go through this or already have. Please do a part inventory at the end if you have a chance, it will definitely help some of us i am sure and keep the pictures and progress coming! Stay safe and i hope your business will come out of this Covid craziness in one piece.

[Muggy]

Thanks rah...I'll definitely put together a list of part numbers that I've collected so far and keep the progress coming! I'm glad that you are finding this helpful...that's my goal along with getting input here and there as needed myself. I knew that the parts would add up both in quantity and $$$...especially with all of the o-rings, crush washers, and one time use bolts that Audi likes to use! I've had to cross check things here and there, but for the most part, I've been able to find everything without too many issues, just not all from one vendor...that is unless I just ordered everything from JimEllis...but that would probably at least double the budget so far.

Another "while I'm in there" part that I picked up was a new power steering pump....I've been having a whine for a while and then a nasty growl on occasion. I did try and flush out the fluid with the proper Pentosin CHF11s, which didn't really help (wasn't low, no leaks). In any case, with the motor on a stand, all of the lines disconnected, and the fluid drained, seems like the perfect time to swap the pump. I found a brand new (not reman and no core charge!) ZF pump on Europa's site for $399 (up to $419 now a day later)...I'll probably also upgrade to the Pentosin CHF202, which looks like the "newer" synthetic fluid that is backwards compatible with the 11s in case of any residue that I can't get out.

Hoping to get some time to really get a bit of real progress on the car...with Covid, my business model has been turned upside down, but at least I still have my primary 18 staff members fully employed with no layoffs or salary cuts. Being in the food service industry...we've been very lucky overall...the catering side is of course next to nothing, but slowly picking up with 4 weddings this past weekend (but all smaller of course)....and our gourmet-to-go business is booming while still operating curbside for pickups. We do higher end carry out and have done so for the last 30 years...I have a fantastic customer base that has been very supportive. That said, the new way of doing business is posting daily rotating and seasonal menus and taking 30-40-50 orders via email every day that we fill first come-first served...this keeps me tied to my desk 6 days a week for hours every morning. In the past, we took some pre-orders, but most was just walk-in ordering of what we made fresh each day, so I had a LOT more flexibility in my schedule. Oh well, as I said, I have a great group of long term employees that obviously rely on their paychecks (and customers that say they'd starve if we closed!), so I'm not complaining!

Now back to RS6 stuff! One tidbit that I found out which I could never find a straight answer on...the turbo hot side housings...I didn't know if they were the same casting or different as they look identical and are stamped with the same number. What I can see is the casting looks to be the same, BUT, the waste gate actuating lever is different. Not sure if these are swappable or not, but I would say no without a lot of effort.

[rah]

Thanks rah...I'll definitely put together a list of part numbers that I've collected so far and keep the progress coming! I'm glad that you are finding this helpful...that's my goal along with getting input here and there as needed myself. I knew that the parts would add up both in quantity and $$$...especially with all of the o-rings, crush washers, and one time use bolts that Audi likes to use! I've had to cross check things here and there, but for the most part, I've been able to find everything without too many issues, just not all from one vendor...that is unless I just ordered everything from JimEllis...but that would probably at least double the budget so far.

Another "while I'm in there" part that I picked up was a new power steering pump....I've been having a whine for a while and then a nasty growl on occasion. I did try and flush out the fluid with the proper Pentosin CHF11s, which didn't really help (wasn't low, no leaks). In any case, with the motor on a stand, all of the lines disconnected, and the fluid drained, seems like the perfect time to swap the pump. I found a brand new (not reman and no core charge!) ZF pump on Europa's site for $399 (up to $419 now a day later)...I'll probably also upgrade to the Pentosin CHF202, which looks like the "newer" synthetic fluid that is backwards compatible with the 11s in case of any residue that I can't get out.

Hoping to get some time to really get a bit of real progress on the car...with Covid, my business model has been turned upside down, but at least I still have my primary 18 staff members fully employed with no layoffs or salary cuts. Being in the food service industry...we've been very lucky overall...the catering side is of course next to nothing, but slowly picking up with 4 weddings this past weekend (but all smaller of course)....and our gourmet-to-go business is booming while still operating curbside for pickups. We do higher end carry out and have done so for the last 30 years...I have a fantastic customer base that has been very supportive. That said, the new way of doing business is posting daily rotating and seasonal menus and taking 30-40-50 orders via email every day that we fill first come-first served...this keeps me tied to my desk 6 days a week for hours every morning. In the past, we took some pre-orders, but most was just walk-in ordering of what we made fresh each day, so I had a LOT more flexibility in my schedule. Oh well, as I said, I have a great group of long term employees that obviously rely on their paychecks (and customers that say they'd starve if we closed!), so I'm not complaining!

Now back to RS6 stuff! One tidbit that I found out which I could never find a straight answer on...the turbo hot side housings...I didn't know if they were the same casting or different as they look identical and are stamped with the same number. What I can see is the casting looks to be the same, BUT, the waste gate actuating lever is different. Not sure if these are swappable or not, but I would say no without a lot of effort.

I cannot give you an answer on the hot side of the turbos, i have not dealt with that at all but i would assume that they are from the same casting, but i guess assuming with the RS6 is a bad habit!

As far as off subject and life of a restaurant, i imagine that a strong customer base and community base helps tremendously! I am not in that business but my brother is, being the general manager of a restaurant wine bar, higher end and really has been relying on its customers to make it through this time. It is still hard since they are and very good wine bar and getting bottles to go has not been an option. They are set for re-opening in the near future but nothing yet, their space is smaller at both locations and have been relying on carry out.

I am glad you are able to keep your people going and yourself. Good luck with your business and will be watching the RS6 refresh development as it unfolds!

[Muggy]

Finally had a chance to get a solid several hours on the car this past weekend and hoping for another session this weekend. I decided to try another version of the aluminum "bufkin" pipe made by another vendor and had much better luck with the fit. I decided to order from Gruvenparts since they say they make them in-house, so I figured I'd have some recourse if I didn't like their version.



OEM plastic pipe, center is Gruvenparts version, right is an eBay version from "JP" (which is .4mm too large).



Next up was to get the cams installed...I fiddled with the 2 "bad" lifters that I had and even with purging and re-presurizing, they still seemed a little off compared to all of the others...decided to go with the 3 intakes on that cylinder...fingers crossed! Took my time to get the chains installed properly as I really don't want to pull it back apart for rushing through this sequence. New chains, adjuster shoes, and cam cap bolts. Now that said, I did see some telltale signs of non-OEM gasket sealer under the tensioner gasket, so my wear pattern on what I thought were the original shoes was definitely not from a 104k motor, but still glad that I have the peace of mind with new shoes!



And coming back together a bit on the front end....







Next up is to fine tune the cam timing...I'm just a hair off to my liking on getting the lock bar back on after several rotations...just need to pop the cam gears again to tweak. Once I'm happy with that, then valve covers back on and back on...this will give me a lot of my bench space back, so then on to the turbo rebuilds...

[kruat]

Looking great man!

[Muggy]

Got a little more done tonight....re-adjusted the timing just a hair to get the cams lined up perfectly...













Now working on cleaning up the valve covers to get those back on and then to the turbos!

[Muggy]

Alright....time for some updates! I actually took a day off yesterday which is extremely rare for me with the COVID mess right now and my business...my wife is my co-manager and we have 16 more full time employees and they all stepped up to kick me out for the day...

I'm going to break this up into 2 posts...first with a few questions to follow and then with the turbo rebuilds. First up is the front side buttoned up...should be ready to go here for the re-install.





Next up are a couple of questions regarding the elimination of the SAI pump, and you'll see one of my reasons pretty clearly in the photos...
For the SAI delete, nubcake has updated my file to show a "no flow" as the norm, so should eliminate the CEL, but a question on vac routing and fuses.

First up, it looks like Audi used some of the leftover crap wiring from the old early 90's era VW's...if you've owned one, you know what I mean. The ground wires especially would corrode on the inside and then reek havoc with the electrical system...outside looked fine, but inside was copper dust...you learned to feel along the wire to get a crunchy spot and that would be one of many problems. In any case, this is not exactly the same thing, but as you can see, the sheathing has completely disintegrated on both the power and ground leads.

Question here is since I've deleted the SAI system, can I just yank the 40 amp fuse and call it a day? Hoping so!!!

Sheathing disintegrated all the way down into the loom...


40 amp SAI pump fuse is the orange one...


Next question, what should I do with vac routing up on top with the solenoid that controls the vac to the SAI Combi valves which were removed and blocked of with plates? I've heard to just loop it back (see pic) and cap off the other tee, or should I just leave the stubby s-line in there connected as OEM to the recirculation valve plumbing and unplug the power to the solenoid since it's been deleted from the tune?

(short "s" shaped vac line from tee usually connects to the solenoid on the end and the left part heads back to the Combi valves)



Any thoughts on this would be great, thanks!

[Muggy]

Now for the fun stuff that I really wanted the whole day to just relax, listen to some tunes, and wrench for the day...balmy 72 degrees and sunny, perfect day to have the garage door open and relax. If anyone wants my tips and tricks that I learned on the turbo rebuilds, just let me know...otherwise I'll let the photos speak for themselves. No surprises here, just time for a standard rebuild using the Mellet cartridges from England.

I had a little shaft play on both of these, but no interference with the blades on the hot or cold side on either turbo. I was leaking oil on the right bank which is why I ended up taking the car off the road in the spring to tackle this entire project. The right bank turbo was pretty grimy on the inside of the hot side and I really had to work to get the oil out that had built up in there, but no real issues otherwise....





Blade damage from when I knocked the cartridge out on the bench since I had new ones...










A little photo trickery...my son gave me the Neon Audi sign for Christmas last year...reflecting on the shiny parts!








All buttoned up and waste gates adjusted, ready for some boost!


Next major project is to get the motor back on the hoist so I can get to the rear main seal plate...hopefully by this coming weekend!

[GreggPDX]

Looks good! Regarding the SAI solenoid, I also had nubcake tune it out, and I did the "loopback" and capped the tee where the "S" hose is attached. Worked fine, no codes.

[Muggy]

Looks good! Regarding the SAI solenoid, I also had nubcake tune it out, and I did the "loopback" and capped the tee where the "S" hose is attached. Worked fine, no codes.

Excellent, just what I was hoping to hear!

[P1054]

Looks good! Regarding the SAI solenoid, I also had nubcake tune it out, and I did the "loopback" and capped the tee where the "S" hose is attached. Worked fine, no codes.

I have the same looped line on mine and no issues here either.

[Muggy]

Ok, so not much progress on the actual wrenching the last couple of weeks...my son bought his first house and decided that he needed a pickup instead of a Lexus. We've been working on his new-to-him 96 Toyota Tacoma v6 5spd 4x4...nice little truck with only 125k on it but needing a little love.

That said, I've decided to bite the bullet and go for the 6 speed swap while everything is out and easy to get to. I've been under the delusion that my tip box would hold up, but the more I think about it, the more likely there were a few hints that it was not too happy. After pricing torque converters and talking to a few about a rebuild, I decided to divert my funds and pick up Jolio's SteveKen conversion kit and just get it done! The car has been laid up since April/May, so it's not like a few more months will kill me. Plus I'll have more time to work on it after we get through the holiday season with my work situation. I did drive Jolio's RS6 when he had it with the same conversion, and even though I didn't ride it hard, I could tell that I would really enjoy it!

Soooo, anyone have a line on a decent 6 speed trans and swap parts....

[C5A603]

Ok, so not much progress on the actual wrenching the last couple of weeks...my son bought his first house and decided that he needed a pickup instead of a Lexus. We've been working on his new-to-him 96 Toyota Tacoma v6 5spd 4x4...nice little truck with only 125k on it but needing a little love.

That said, I've decided to bite the bullet and go for the 6 speed swap while everything is out and easy to get to. I've been under the delusion that my tip box would hold up, but the more I think about it, the more likely there were a few hints that it was not too happy. After pricing torque converters and talking to a few about a rebuild, I decided to divert my funds and pick up Jolio's SteveKen conversion kit and just get it done! The car has been laid up since April/May, so it's not like a few more months will kill me. Plus I'll have more time to work on it after we get through the holiday season with my work situation. I did drive Jolio's RS6 when he had it with the same conversion, and even though I didn't ride it hard, I could tell that I would really enjoy it!

Soooo, anyone have a line on a decent 6 speed trans and swap parts....

I joined just to follow along this thread. It's AudiAR01 (Seth) and the info you were asking about the exhaust housings being the same. They are 100% the exact same housing. The k03 and k04 turbos also use the same exhaust housing for each side. As well as the RS6 turbos. Audi used the same cast for both sides. The k03 exhaust housings match each other, the k04 exhaust housings match each other, and the RS6 Turbo exhaust housings match each other. Lookn forward to watching this unfold. And you swapping the 6spd in....

[DKP]

Hey Muggy. I’m now also doing a muggy refresh but unfortunately without muggy. Anyway did the Gruven pipe fit as it should and were you happy or should I just stick with the oem plastic?

Happy thanksgiving from Colorado everybody

[Muggy]

Hey Muggy. I’m now also doing a muggy refresh but unfortunately without muggy. Anyway did the Gruven pipe fit as it should and were you happy or should I just stick with the oem plastic?

Happy thanksgiving from Colorado everybody

Hah! You can do it...unfortunately mine is taking much longer than I had planned, but I'm taking my time and hopefully doing everything right!

For the Gruvenparts pipe, it does seem to fit just right...that said, the engine is still on the stand and obviously hasn't been started yet to know if it seals right or not. When installing it, it feels like the OEM pipe as far as installation feel on the o-ring size which is positive. I can't say for sure, but it also looks like Gruvenparts used the OEM o-rings, where the eBay part had skinnier o-rings.

Hope this is helpful!