Hybrid Q7

[Benman]

Question: Is there much point to the Hybrid Q7? The new quattro quarterly qoutes it to being 13% more fuel effient than the regular 4.2L (and the funny thing, they act like that is some kind of amazing achievement!). Do the math and if the regular 4.2L gets 19mpg highway, then the Hybrid will get a whopping (being sarcastic) 21.47mpg!!! Whoopty doo! So the 2.47 additional miles I get each gallon will take what, like 15 YEARS to recoup the additional $5000.00 (estimated) cost of the Hybrid?

250,000 miles @19mpg= 13,157.895 gallons consumed.
250,000 miles @21.47mpg= 11,644.155 gallons consumed.

So the 1,513.74 gallons I saved over the 250,000 miles driven at @$3.00 a gallon would save me $4,541.22! Still short of the $5,000 dollar premium I payed for the Hybrid in the first place! And that's if the Hybrid only costs me $5K!

Wouldn't the deisel make much more sense? That is, if it even comes Stateside. There, they say it would get @24mpg, or a difference of 26%, double the added efficiency of the Hybrid. What's more, it would probably tow more to boot.

Curious as to if anyone else had given this any thought?

Ben

[AndyBG]

Yes, diesel is making mutch more sense and that is reflecting through diesel sales. In Europe more than 65 %(maybe even more) of new cars are diesel and i am sure that situation with Q7 is going to be even more "diesel powered".

I think hybryd is targeting US market becouse people there just cant start buying diesels, what ever kind of market ofensive is made for diesels they just don't buy them.

[eazy]

An hybrid-system is most effective in urban-areas. Out of the town, on the highway it's not better than a diesel.
In my mind, a hybrid is not as good as many people think.
In Europe, a hybrid-option will not have much chances to establish itself.
If people want an economical car, they buy a diesel.

Audi just develops a hybrid because the american market.
I don't know why americans are so keen on hybrids. Maybe someone can explain me that.

Greetz

eazy

[Benman]

Originally posted by eazy
Maybe someone can explain me that.

Greetz

eazy

Well eazy, I can't speak for every American, but I think it comes down to Americans seem to be convinced Hybrids are "cool". They "help" the environment and are much better than the "evil" regular engines in other cars. Fact is, most cars are ultra low emmision vehicles now, hybrid or not, but again, the average American doesn't seem to realize that. The commercials do a great job of convincing them that hybrids are so much better, and for the most part, it works. Toyota and Honda sell tons of hybrids here and pump large amounts of money in advertising.

As for why Americans don't seem to like diesel, that's an easier one. The diesel most of us are familiar with are the diesels of old and the ones in trucks. Very few of us have experience with modern high quality German diesels. The German diesels most of us know are the awefull crap ones in the old Mercedes! Dang, they stink and are loud as all get out! My first trip out to Germany in my rental Audi A6 diesel was a revelation to say the least! After a week in that, I had no idea why more aren't out here! Fantastic car. Every trip since, my rental has always been diesel. Nothing like what most Americans are used to!

So I think it comes down to the misconception that diesels are loud and stinky, hybrids are quiet and clean. Marketing will do that. Not to mention that diesel is more than Super Unleaded here!

Ben

[Benman]

Keep in mind, I'm not really bagging on Hybrids as a whole, more wondering why Audi's Q7 is half arsed (as they say in Britain ).

Example:

Honda Civic NON Hybrid base model with auto transmission gets:

30 City
40 Highway

Honda Civic Hybrid gets:

49 City
51 Highway

That's a whopping (not being sarcastic) 63% and 27% increase over the non Hybrid model (versus the Q7s weak arse increase of 12%). Plus, just like the Q7, it is also faster than the non Hybrid version.

So really, my point is, if Honda can do such a great job and produce such an extreme increase in fuel economy, than why can't Audi who supposedly has been building Hybrids since 1989 (at least according to that story)?

Ben

** edit **

And the Accord Hybrid gets 45% (city) and 28% (highway) better than regular petrol car.

And PS, the ultimate idea would be a Audi Bio Deisel Hybrid! Now that I'd want!

[AndyBG]

Benman,

please tell me how often you can see diesel powered pasenger car on your streets (Touareg V10 TDI,...)

I am just courious, i never bean in US.

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
Benman,

please tell me how often you can see diesel powered pasenger car on your streets (Touareg V10 TDI,...)

I am just courious, i never bean in US.

Andy, this will give you a great idea of how many diesel cars are in the States. I did a search on autotrader.com for a VW Touareg V10 TDI. I searched for any year, any price and any distance from me (entire US). Guess how many were for sale? 12. Twelve!!! Only 12 Touareg Diesels in the entire US that are for sale right now! And BTW, none are new as they stopped making this vehicle available to US consumers last year!

So there you go. Kind of gives you an idea of how rare a sight diesels are in the US. Yes, occasionally I will see a Jetta or Golf TDI but it still isn't very common here. Diesel is just not popular here unless you have a big truck (think full size Chevy, Dodge or Ford). I'd estimate that of all new cars sold (not counting trucks), less than 5% are diesels! Can't explain it, that's just how it is.

Ben

**edit** just did a search for any Golf diesel for any year, any price, any distance, result: 192 in entire US!

[AndyBG]

!!!12!!!

In whole country!

I realy dont understand that, i just cant get it in to my head.

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
!!!12!!!

In whole country!

I realy dont understand that, i just cant get it in to my head.

I can understand that from an European perspective. But also think about the 192 TDI Golfs for sale from any State, price or year (range 1981-2006)!

If you do a search for "regular" petrol Golf, it pulls up like 1750! Almost 10 times as many. And that is my point of saying less than 5% of all cars sold here are diesel. If only 10% of Golfs and Jetts here are diesel (and they're practically the only diesels offered here), by the time you add in the Fords, Chevys, Dodges, Hondas, Toyotas (ALL petrol), I'd say less than 5% is optimistic at best. Probably less than 3% of all cars sold here are diesel!

Yeah, 12 used V10 Touaregs is amazing though. I would like to go see one just to drive it. I mean, it's more rare here than an Lamborghini Murcielago!!! (Just did a Nationwide search, 51 came up!!!) Yep, TDI's are a rare breed here.

Phffff, Americans...

Ben

[eazy]

@benman
I did the same search as you in Germany.
Result: 476 Touareg V10 want to be bought

Greetz

eazy

[Yak]

Benman, yes you're comparing to petrol cars in Civics. However, for example Toyota Prius isn't even close to being the most economical car even in the city, since diesels surpass it.

That's the key, should you compare diesel and those hybrid-cars, there's a big chance that diesel is actually more economical, thus making the point with hybrids kinda.. pointless?

[Benman]

Originally posted by Yak
Benman, yes you're comparing to petrol cars in Civics. However, for example Toyota Prius isn't even close to being the most economical car even in the city, since diesels surpass it.

That's the key, should you compare diesel and those hybrid-cars, there's a big chance that diesel is actually more economical, thus making the point with hybrids kinda.. pointless?

That's kinda my point about the Q7 Hybrid. The deisel Q7 will out perform it in fuel economy! So why make the hybrid at all?!? Just for the US market? That's lame (no offense to cripples).

And yeah, I was comparing the Civic Hybrid to the petrol Civic, cause here in the States, Civic diesels are hard to come by. But remember, the petrol Q7 only gets 13% less fuel economy than the Q7 Hybrid! Compare that to the figures I posted for the petrol Civic versus the Civic Hybrid (also Accord petrol vs hybrid)and my point is that the effort for the Q7 Hybrid seems half arsed at best.

eazy, So there's 476 V10 Touaregs in Germany for sale? Hmm... just a few more than here.

Ben

[AndyBG]

So, at the end,

is diesel Q7 coming on US market or not?

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
So, at the end,

is diesel Q7 coming on US market or not?

I'm not sure. Even if it does, it won't be until at least a year or more after the initial launch of the Q7! By then, the Mrs. will have been hers for the better part of a year.

Ben

[AndyBG]

And would be your choice...?

4.2, 3.6 or that

"SUPER MODERN HYBRYD"?

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
And what would be your choice...?

4.2, 3.6 or that

"SUPER MODERN HYBRID"?

4.2L "Premium" pkg.

Ben

[AndyBG]

Fine one, no discusion there.



Enjoy!

[BBGT2]

In the good old USA everyone here associates a diesel anything with a semi truck and OMG where am I going to find diesel at this time of the night.
Also alot of people still remember the GM version of a 5.7L V8 diesel and how not great they were, they were pieces of crap.
Given the Germans have always had good diesel engine they could not get them popular over here even with the better fuel economy they offer.
Also remember that here in the states we will buy gas even when it hits $10 a gallon (hopefully not while I am alive) and we will bitch and complain but we still have to go to work, play etc. Most of the premium we pay on the price of a gallon is for Uncle Sam and his cohorts so that they can live in a style in whihc they are accustomed to as I am sure is the same everywhere else.
I have had diesel cars in the past and yes they were all German brands, only for us those choices were either a Benz or a VW, I had both. Maintenance is very inexpensive (was anyways) and they go and go and go it seems like forever.
As far as I concerned they can take their hybrids and send them all to Hawaii I wont buy one or drive one.
I always laugh at the guy at the light next to me with his Toyota Prius and always wanna ask "you paid $35k for that, you need help, serious help".
I dont know I may be too backward thinking but I figure I am gonna drive what I want and leave the tree huggers to their ideas and beliefs they are "helping" the environment.

Just my .02 bar !

Bajo

All right all you eco freaks I got my flame suit on you cant touch me