I'm back....almost

[gregoryindiana]

Originally posted by Benman

Well... if the newer stuff keeps going the NA path, a lot of Audi folk will start buying the older stuff.

"If I wanted a NA "more BMW like" Audi, I would have bought a BMW in the first place!"

Audi has 2 things going for it that other German manufacturers had to copy to compete with them on performance. I'm not talking about their interior fit and finish, or styling, which you like or you don't, or maybe (Bangle) it grows on you, or maybe you don't see it from the inside.

The first is quattro. I have never tried 4matic from Daimler-Benz, nor have I tried the BMW ix system. Never needed to; Audi has worked to modify and update their quattro system over the years.

The second is engine technology friendly to turbos. They went to water cooled turbo bearings early for better reliability, and their turbo engines have historically been internally robust enough that uprated aftermarket parts hung on them, sourced from suppliers with factory connections, didn't cause the engines to grenade. Possible decreased service life was a given, but I could live with 120,000 miles modded versus 180k unmodded.

If Audi abandons forced induction it will be a shame. Going forward, their best tech trick will be DSG, or whatever that metamorphoses into. Certainly that will be an improvement over Tiptronic, which has seen its day. Even Porsche, the inventor of tiptronic, has seen the future, and will either develop their old PDK system for street use, or, more likely, will license DSG from VW, just as Audi/VW licensed Tiptronic from them. If DSG is in the next R10 racer, then obviously the power and torque limitations to this point have been resolved (hope, hope)

I join the chorus of members here who will be reluctant to jump in for a naturally aspirated next Audi. Once you've had turbo power, it's hard to go back.

I waited 9 years with a 1994 Ur S4 with heavy Abt mods (?310 bhp +/-) before I bought the RS6, as that was the first Audi available in the US that I thought represented enough of an upward increment in performance and exclusivity to justify giving up the old car. And even then, I had to swallow hard with only the Tip available; I wouldn't have done it except that you Europeans didn't get a different transmission either. I figured that I would encourage Audi, to the extent I am able, to make their Euro content available to us in the states also. (I would buy a TDI diesel A8 tomorrow if it were offered here)

[Benman]

Originally posted by gregoryindiana

If Audi abandons forced induction it will be a shame.

(I would buy a TDI diesel A8 tomorrow if it were offered here)

A big shame. Don't get me wrong, the new RS 4 is fantastic and I was completely impressed with its abilities, but I love the twin turbo motor in my RS 6 and since having it, will be very hard pressed to give it up for a NA motor. Maybe I'll "outgrow" the Turbo motor in later years, but right now its too addictive.

And yes, more diesels in the States please.

Ben

[AvusRS6]

Originally posted by gregoryindiana
Audi has 2 things going for it that other German manufacturers had to copy to compete with them on performance.

I don't think I quite understand this statement. I think Audi is the only Turbo German company (P-Cars not included, nor VW since they're sorta sister companies).

You sold our 993 C4S

Just kididing.

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by alex_s3
Isn't that really good? 0-60mp/h in 4,9 sec with 200 hp?

Sorry, I could have written that clearer. MY 1.8T A4 had an APR chip only ($600), for 200 hp; I don't know it's 0-60 time, but it was considerably slower than 4.9 although a ton of fun at the track. The STASIS 1.8T A4 has many more mods at much greater expense, plus their reported 0-60 time of 4.9 as advertised in the Audi club's quarterly magazine. I believe that mag, or perhaps another, also had good things to say about the Stasis conversion in a review/article. Also, I attended a Stasis Q&A session, with one of their racing B5 A4s present, at a Florida club meet -- and was impressed.

Also, to ERIK: The older B5s make great track cars because with turbos, much more power can be gained with a chip. The lower price makes more sense for a track car to many people. Finally, some have said the older cars are more nimble than the B6 and B7 versions, but I can't verify that personally because I haven't driven the newer cars.

[Benman]

Originally posted by JAXRS6
Finally, some have said the older cars are more nimble than the B6 and B7 versions, but I can't verify that personally because I haven't driven the newer cars.

The weight alone will tell the story. A 2000 B5 S4 weights (dry) 3600lbs. A 2006 B7 S4 is nearly 4100lbs! That RS 6 territory!!!:bigeyes:

Ben

[alex_s3]

yeah, If you chip your B5 S4 could i produce a lot more NM than the newer mod of the S4! Turbo advantage

[gregoryindiana]

Originally posted by AvusRS6
I don't think I quite understand this statement. I think Audi is the only Turbo German company (P-Cars not included, nor VW since they're sorta sister companies).

My point exactly. The statement WAS that only Audi among comparable German manufacturers, (excludes Porsche and the sister company VW) offers turbos. If they continue to leave that technology behind and only offer NA cars, that differentiates them that much LESS from BMW or Daimler-Benz.

The other thing is quattro. Audi still like that, I guess, thank goodness. Quattro was enough of a success that Daimler had to come with 4matic, and BMW their ix drive, to compete. And I don't know if even today you can get those all wheel drive models across their entire model lines.

If they abandon turbo, then they will have to make a big push with DSG to make up for it. And it still won't be enough for me. I may have the NA 1990 V8 Quattro by default (it was my wife's car until she got the A6 4.2, but I only keep it because it is a nice reserve car with no market value, and I have decent mechanical sympathy that makes it easy to see problems early before they would keep her off the road. BUT I love my twin turbos, just as I loved the single ones in the previous Ur S4, and the 5000 CS Quattro that started it all off for me. I haven't been without an Audi with a Turbo for 20 years, which is my entire Audi experience. My father had a 4000 before that.