black box in car

[freerider]

Saw this on autoweek.com and I thought I'd make a poll here too, so people can make comments on it(same options to choose from).

I personally don't like the idea, because a lot of people would make abuse of this system (police and insurance for instance).

But I have to agree that it could make things easier when there's an accident. But where's the fun in driving then? This technology would make zero-tollerance a fact. I just don't like being watched all the time. If this becomes real, they can also put an camera on everybody's head, so you can see what they are doing and where they are. That's just too much.

Greetz Johan

[Aronis]

This is something that I read about about three years ago in GM cars.

The idea was to have the speed, break pedal force, steering angle, yaw, etc. logged for last few seconds before a collision.

I am sure that a lot can be be learned that may become useful in making cars safer, but the potential abuses to the average, safe driver is too great.

Let's face it, just about everyone speeds, yes even little old ladies. So if you car ratted you out for speeding just before you DIED in a collision would they void you life insurance, void you collision coverage, etc. Or perhaps have the black box call the cops for you for speeding....etc...

I think that such Big Brother technology is potentially bad for freedom.

Not in my car, thank you.

Mike

[RS4Ever]

Originally posted by Aronis
This is something that I read about about three years ago in GM cars.

The idea was to have the speed, break pedal force, steering angle, yaw, etc. logged for last few seconds before a collision.

I am sure that a lot can be be learned that may become useful in making cars safer, but the potential abuses to the average, safe driver is too great.

Let's face it, just about everyone speeds, yes even little old ladies. So if you car ratted you out for speeding just before you DIED in a collision would they void you life insurance, void you collision coverage, etc. Or perhaps have the black box call the cops for you for speeding....etc...

I think that such Big Brother technology is potentially bad for freedom.




Not in my car, thank you.

Mike

you make a great point.:asian:

[gjg]

I think that such Big Brother technology is potentially bad for freedom.

Mike, rest assured that the black box information will be used and misused against you by the government - it is not a question IF but just a matter of WHEN. There are plenty of info on the web today already, for example regarding attempts to collect speeding fines based on information obtained from GPS systems in rental cars ................




and wait till the members of The Ambulance Chasers Association will get their hands on this - I dare to estimate the number of lawsuits going either way ........ while the ordinary driver is going to get screwed because the insurance industry will bare the cost, same way as situation is in the medical industry today ..... malpractice or bad driving - what difference does it make as long as legal fees get paid? While government mandates the evidence to be at their disposal ...



no f.....g way in any car I drive in US ....

[AudiRS6]

I put my vote on I agree...

I think this is needed for future safety in cars, think about it, we need some kind of research on how accidents happend, so we know what to do to prevent it from happening or make it more safe to crash.

[Yak]

Yeah, if that would be the reason why they use it, instead of "we're not gonna pay your accident, you drove 1km/h overspeed".

Or speed cameras with infraredlink that catch if you've been driving too fast with your car in the last year.

No thanks.

- Yak

[Benman]

Originally posted by gjg


no f.....g way in any car I drive in US ....

Funny. You act as if they'll be giving us a choice in the matter.

[J0X]

Nay.

No matter how much information it may or may not be able to store moments before an accidents, is not going to help. A car will never be able to correct a driver mistake, so their so-called "studies" that are supposed to result in built-in precautions in the car are just stupid. George Orwell-flashback anyone?

[AudiRS6]

Well i guess we just have to wait and see, wont we?

[gjg]

Funny. You act as if they'll be giving us a choice in the matter.

well, it says "US manufactured cars" - surelly, it it goes thru, it will be a matter of time when this bs box will mandatory for imports as well ......

so their so-called "studies" that are supposed to result in built-in precautions in the car are just stupid.

job security?

[J0X]

Originally posted by gjg
job security?

Care to elaborate?

[gjg]

Care to elaborate?

such "study" is a loooong term project, number of people involved, guaranteeed government funds in name of safety .......

[Nordschleife]

George
Audis, and Lamborghinis, already have black boxes in them. The airbag triggering devices have a black box capability.
The US Dept of Transportation has had a change of heart and decided that ESP is a 'good thing'. So it looks as if that is to beme compulsorary on US cars, I bet it doesn't make it to 'light trucks'.
R+C

[gjg]

having capability and giving government unrestricted and uncontrolled access is two different things .....

there is a track record of missues longer than week before payday ....

:eye:

[Nordschleife]

Originally posted by gjg
having capability and giving government unrestricted and uncontrolled access is two different things .....

there is a track record of missues longer than week before payday ....

:eye:

I am always curious as to why NOBODY stopped insurance companies paying for Police Departments' speed cameras.

Stopping 'Accident Investigators' from accessing black box data is going to to be the same as refusing to blow in the bag or having a blood test in a drink-drive situation. It might fly in West Virginia for a few years but......

The train is getting more and more attractive. The good German expresses allow you to eat, drink, plug in your computer and get high speed internet access, plus movies on seat back LCDs. The last time, I had a seat that was almost a private compartement with food and drink brought to my table whilst I was working. All this as we swept along at 285 kph. Feeling stiff, go for a stroll, want to talk to somebody, sit in the bar.....

R+C

[gjg]

I am always curious as to why NOBODY stopped insurance companies paying for Police Departments' speed cameras.

vote with your vallet and let them know - Geico in US supplied radar guns to promote "road safety" .... just get another insurance ...

Stopping 'Accident Investigators' from accessing black box data is going to to be the same as refusing to blow in the bag or having a blood test in a drink-drive situation. It might fly in West Virginia for a few years but......

well, I'd say it would be more difficult to pass this in US than in Europe - at least the 'civil liberties' are not easily handed over to polizei like it is here (in EU) in most of the countries .....

DUI is one thing, giving some asshole unrestricted access to your private life is another .

gg

[gjg]

and you are right with the trains ..... we're waiting for local RR to finish commissioning of the "EuroTrack" for high speed train.

even without it (you still get 50 minute Euroexpress) Prague is better, during weekdays, by train because traffic congestion is so bad you spent 3-4 hours sitting somewhere in traffic jam ....

Unfortunately Ost part is still far away from the German train services (including on board access and so on). geting better though ...

[Benman]

Along the lines of a black box in every car... well this is WAY better!
http://www.eissa.org/january2002.htm



FBI Confirms Existence of Magic Lantern Surveillance Tool

A US FBI spokesperson confirmed the Magic Lantern tool exists but it is currently in development and not yet in use. MSNBC.com first reported on the existence Magic Lantern in an article on Nov. 20, 2001 (ID# 106289, Nov. 21, 2001). The alleged Trojan horse, once installed on a subject's computer, captures all the keystrokes made by the user, including passwords. Many civil libertarian organizations said that such software could have the potential to be abused by law enforcement agencies. However until this official statement was made on Dec. 12, many could only speculate on whether or not the program really existed.

Magic Lantern is "a workbench project" that has not yet been deployed, said FBI spokesman Paul Bresson. "We can't discuss it because it's under development." An anonymous source supposedly familiar with Magic Lantern told MSNBC.com that when completed, it would allow the FBI access to information without having to physically access the target computer. The program accomplishes this by implanting a keystroke logger via a Trojan horse, which is typically downloaded in an e-mail or possibly inserted via a known security vulnerability such as an unprotected open port.

When asked by the media whether or not the FBI would need a court order to use Magic Lantern, Bresson said, "Like all technology projects or tools deployed by the FBI, it would be used pursuant to the appropriate legal process." This announcement comes at a time when earlier in the week many anti-virus vendors such as Symantec Corp. and Network Associates Inc./McAfee.com had said that they would not voluntarily cooperate with the FBI by leaving a backdoor open in so anti-virus software wouldn't detect Magic Lantern (ID# 106531, Dec. 12, 2001). Rather, they would continue with business as usual and continue to update their anti-virus signature files to detect malicious code, no matter what the origin.

Analysis : (iDEFENSE US) Although it is obvious that anti-virus companies are not willing to cooperate with the FBI unless legally order to so in light of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, it is possible that the US government could request the assistance of private companies in its war on terrorism.

"In previous wars — including World War II — the government had the power to call on companies to help, to commandeer the technology," said Michael Erbschloe, vice president of research at Computer Economics, which analyzes the impact of viruses. "If we were at war, the government would be able to require technology companies to cooperate, I believe, in a number of ways, including getting backdoor access to information and computer systems."

Whether or not the government resorts to taking such drastic measures as out lined by Erbschloe greatly depends on the severity of the next terrorist attack in the US and how successful the government is at stopping it without implementing extreme measures such as these.


Ben "A US FBI spokesperson confirmed the Magic Lantern tool exists but it is currently in development and not yet in use."

(right....)