2005 Audi RS4

[tailpipe]

Having placed an order for this car, I spoke to Audi UK product marketing person. These are the facts:

1. Saloon arrives in the Spring Avant arrives in the Autumn
2. Engine will be a turbo, current 4.2 litre V-8 boosted to 400-420 bhp.
3. Only availalable in a manual at launch, but Audi are working on DSG for V-8
4. The much talked about FSI 4.2 litre V-8 will debut in A8 but probably not until 2006 model year.

(Updated S4 with new trapezoidal grille should have quite a few tweaks that usefully improve it.)

[Bauer]

2. Engine will be a turbo, current 4.2 litre V-8 boosted to 400-420 bhp

So it will be a twin turbo V8? If that is the case I may want one...that thing should be a monster.

[Klint]

Should be "ggggggrrrrrrreat!".

Looking forward to the RS4 and it's excellent to hear they're making a saloon. Lets hope with all that power they make most of it rear biased, for those of us who enjoy the odd oversteery moment.

[McBurn4ever]

I'm sceptical..

1.
No way that engine could fit in the b6-body.

2.
400-420hp out of a 4,2 litre NA V8 would be great, but out of the same engine overcharged..?!?
That would be a true disaster! Les then 100hp/litre...?
(RS2 = 143 hp/litre, RS4 = 140hp/litre, RS6 = 107 hp/litre)
Audis technicians are way to superior for that..


Btw..this is just me thinking out loud..


:s4addict:

[tailpipe]

I have to say say after everything I'd read here, I was convinced that the RS4 was going to have the new 4.2 FSI V8. In fact, I'm jolly disappointed that they now say this engine won't feature in the RS4. Audi says it is being reserved for the A8, (which by all accounts needs a bit of a boost, because the A6 is a lot closer to it than before and may cannibalise sales).

This question about whether a turbo will fit in the RS4, though, is an interesting one. Here is the big unknown: apparently, the facelift is much more than a facelift and may include a simple but radical redesign of the B6's engine bay in order for the engine to sit further back - it'll still be front wheel drive - but will benefit from much improved handling characteristics.

If the naturally aspirated V8 FSI is not available for the RS4, Audi can only offer its existing 4.2 lump which naturally aspirated only pumps out 344 bhp. To beef it up to acceptable output levels, it'll HAVE to be turbocharged.

If anybody has any further information on this, please post it. in the meantime, I promise what I wrote came straight from the horses mouth.

[Nordschleife]

Originally posted by tailpipe
I have to say say after everything I'd read here, I was convinced that the RS4 was going to have the new 4.2 FSI V8. In fact, I'm jolly disappointed that they now say this engine won't feature in the RS4. Audi says it is being reserved for the A8, (which by all accounts needs a bit of a boost, because the A6 is a lot closer to it than before and may cannibalise sales).

This question about whether a turbo will fit in the RS4, though, is an interesting one. Here is the big unknown: apparently, the facelift is much more than a facelift and may include a simple but radical redesign of the B6's engine bay in order for the engine to sit further back - it'll still be front wheel drive - but will benefit from much improved handling characteristics.

If the naturally aspirated V8 FSI is not available for the RS4, Audi can only offer its existing 4.2 lump which naturally aspirated only pumps out 344 bhp. To beef it up to acceptable output levels, it'll HAVE to be turbocharged.

If anybody has any further information on this, please post it. in the meantime, I promise what I wrote came straight from the horses mouth.

Tailpipe

Warning - only qualified veterinary surgeons should look into the horse's mouth. Audi UK don't have any more idea about what Audi is developing than England knows about winning penalty shootouts. Just regurgitating what somebody in Audi UK 'thinks', is a waste of time, Manuel from Barcelona knows more!

It is quite straight forward to get 420 bhp out of the 4.2 litre engine. Indeed, Audi gets 500 bhp out of the 5 litre V10 version in the Gallardo - yes 2 versions of the same engine (the cylinders are drilled on the same centres), and there is talk of a great deal more being available from that engine. The 344bhp that the engine in the S4 produces is a figure that the marketing department decided on, its not a physical limitation, its more than the BMW M3.

You can redesign the engine bay all you like but you can't move the engine further back. It has to be in front of the front wheels - thats right, the whole engine, and the beginning of the gearbox HAVE to be in front of the front wheels:

Why:
Because the drive shafts for the front wheels come from takeoffs at the front of the gearbox.
and -
the angle of the drive shafts to the wheel hubs and gearbox power takeoff has to be as close to a right angle as possible otherwise this has an adverse affect on handling.

So with a quattro Torsen system, the engine is always stuck out the front, even on the A8s with the W12 engine or the Bentley Continental GT.

Now the only way any of the manufacturers have found to get around this problem whilst using Torsen is to attach a series of chained gearwheels to each takeoff, rather like chainsaws, these run forward on each side of the engine block so that the engine can be moved further back and the drive shafts remain at right angles to the centre line. This is very noisy and so far only acceptable in a race car.

To date, Audi has only managed to sell a few thousand of each model RS car, so I can't see them investing a great deal of money into developing a trick power train system when they have committed to a All Wheel Drive version of Maserati Quattroporte technology as the way forward, can you?

Redesigning the engine bay does allow the engineers to increase the airflow, which is a good thing, it may allow them to fit turbo-chargers, but unlikely if they want to sell the car in the US, and against their previously declared position that the engine would be naturally aspirated.

I have taken great care not to discuss car specifications with any Concessionaires, Distributors, Dealers or their staff. The only people one may safely talk to are engineers in the early days, testers and towards the end of the development cycle, the product marketing people. Sometimes the boss is indescrete and you get a good hint from the top.

R+C

[tailpipe]

Nordschliefe,

I was rather hoping you would contribute something to this, thank you.

Are you saying that the performance of existing naturally aspirated V8 in S4 can easily be increased without turbocharging it? Or will the next RS4 will have the new 4.2 FSI V8 despite what Audi says?

BTW, did you read the piece in Car magazine that says that Bernd Pischestreider has done a U-turn and vetoed rear-wheel drive for new Audis? According to Burnt Fishtrousers rear wheel drive would alienate too many existing Audi customers. This seems absurd, because Volkswagen intends to produce a rear wheel drive car to slot in between Passat and Phaeton using Quattroporte transaxle. A rear wheel drive VW seems less sensible than a rear wheel drive Audi. I am sure you're going to tell me not to believe what journalists say either!

So what's really going on inside Audi? What is their engineering strategy to improve the dynamics of their cars?

Isn't the Torsen system being updated to overcome the disadvantages you mentioned?

Answers, please!

[Nordschleife]

the biggest problem facing Audi is how to develop a drive system for bringing the power forward from a rear mounted transaxle to the front wheels:
that is cost efficient
fits in the package
behaves well in a crash

so expect the solution to involve carbon fibre.

I think journalists have been confused as they cannot understand how to build an AWD rear transaxle passenger car. I'm not sure where people got the idea that Audi would produce a rear wheel drive car, its always been about weight and torque bias rather than switching drive layouts.

R+C

[tailpipe]

If the spec of the next generation RS6 is anything to go by, then there is room for the RS4 to have real supercar credentials.

As reported in the RS6 forum, some mole reckons that next RS6 will have V-10 FSI (if M5 has one, then it HAS to), Bi-turbo to 580 bhp, plus 6-speed DSG gearbox.

:MTM:

Bi-turbo is apparently an essential signature of RS cars and therefore the RS4 should get it too. Given the number of comments on this forum lamenting the prospect of a non-turbo RS4, this could be right.



Therefore, the RS4 could have a V8 FSI bi-turbo good for 480 bhp plus DSG. If that proves to be the case, then I guess there'll be an awful lot of happy campers on this forum.

Yes, please, Mr Winterkorn, I'll take one for me and one for the wife.

:king:

But who knows for sure? I don't know what to believe now. I guess we'll just have to keep on waiting until Audi lets the cat out of the bag.