Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 37 to 49 of 49

Thread: OMG, another 6MT conversion thread.

  1. #37
    Registered User redwoodkiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveKen View Post
    I assume that you are going to use a new replacement when you re-install it? Check to see that the accompanying stud is inserted far enough. If too much of it is sticking out, then it could be hindering the amount of bite you have on the inner hex. I've also seen replacement nuts that look like long shafts so that the hex is outside of the manifold. I might have some lying around here somewhere....
    Hah. You assume correctly sir. I've ordered the newer longer manifold fasteners that fit the manifold recesses as per the suggestion of @GreggPDX earlier in the thread. They should arrive tomorrow.
    Audi RS4 B7, Audi RS6 C5, Audi Allroad 2.7T C5, Audi S4 Cab 4.2L 6MT B6, Audi A6 6MT 2.7T C5, '77 Mercedes 450SEL

  2. #38
    Registered User redwoodkiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    21
    While waiting for other bits'n'bobs I got to disassembling the front of the motor in prep for a full timing belt change - cleaned her up a bit too...




    And, also the valve covers in prep for changing all gaskets and seals - and also the tensioner pads.
    Look what I found though...






    Notice anything? Yeah, the 'L' and 'R' painted references (AFIK it is not factory procedure to label them in this fashion). And clean! There is barely any varnishing on the hardware (I recently had the valve covers off the Allroad with similar mileage (100k-ish) and the difference between that and this is night-vs-day). These heads have been either reconditioned or replaced entirely - and I'd guess, sometime in the last 20-25k miles.

    The valve covers are original though...



    The valve covers show the varnishing you'd expect from a car with 100-ish thousand miles under its belt - and that's after a degreasing and washing down.

    I wonder what happened?

    The previous owner kept a very good record of maintenance - although he was the second owner and acquired the car at around 85k miles. Records from the previous owner clearly have a few gaps because there is nothing to suggest this level of work (and expense). But it does explain the utterly ruined manifold bolts.

    I don't think I'll be changing the tensioner pads. The tensioners look like they were replaced at the same time - and the pads still look new. That makes things easier. I will still do the half moons, caps and cam seals since I'm in here though.

    It kinda suggests a snapped belt (or broken belt roller) that, in turn, led to catastrophic valve damage - necessitating head replacement. That can't have a been a cheap repair.


    Couple of questions to the grouo:

    I noticed no sign of RTV sealant on the gasket or head surface. On the 2.7T's it is considered a good procedure to use RTV sealant at the lower corners of the cover and in the valleys between the tensioner actuator and the end-cam-cap. Is this not the case for the RS6 4.2? (there was no sign of leaking anywhere - not at the half moons, the cam seals, the tensioner gasket, or the valve cover gasket).

    Also, what are the correct bolts for the crank pulley? (mine had a mix of 6mm m8 hex that were all stripped and triple square m8's of different lengths) (it took me over an hour to get the hex bolts out - all stripped and no room for EZ outs. bah.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_9739_sm.jpg 
Views:	111 
Size:	150.1 KB 
ID:	19027   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_9737_sm.jpg 
Views:	112 
Size:	150.2 KB 
ID:	19028   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_9735_sm.jpg 
Views:	113 
Size:	152.5 KB 
ID:	19029   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_9740_sm.jpg 
Views:	110 
Size:	151.7 KB 
ID:	19030  
    Audi RS4 B7, Audi RS6 C5, Audi Allroad 2.7T C5, Audi S4 Cab 4.2L 6MT B6, Audi A6 6MT 2.7T C5, '77 Mercedes 450SEL

  3. #39
    Registered User redwoodkiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    21
    BTW: @SteveKen - thanks for sharing the photo's of the mods you've had to make to the trans mount and axle heat shield. I'd not seen reference to those before, and it's good to know what's coming. Very helpful.
    Audi RS4 B7, Audi RS6 C5, Audi Allroad 2.7T C5, Audi S4 Cab 4.2L 6MT B6, Audi A6 6MT 2.7T C5, '77 Mercedes 450SEL

  4. #40
    Registered User hahnmgh63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Roy, WA
    Posts
    3,079
    Same as the 2.7t as far as the sealant goes. Factory manual shows just a small button of sealant in all of the corners you mentioned where the gasket makes a sharp angle (cam tensioner). My Crankshaft pulley is held on by the triple-square.
    Although at 71k, my valve covers looked cleaner than those in your picture (after cleaning). I think a lot of it has to do with the oil being used and the frequency of change. I use Redline 5w-40 and change it about every 5~7k.
    2003 White RS6 2013 Midnight Blue S5
    2013 Daytona RS5 2x944 Turbo's 1974 911 w/'91 3.6ltr motor
    Roy, WA

  5. #41
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    355
    I'm not saying your motor hasn't been apart recently but I had the same sharpie L & R on the two BCYs I have in my possession. Change the tensioner pads! You truly don't know the history, especially with the shoddy work/mismatch hardware. Added peace of mind you won't have to tear it apart again so soon. Just ask Jolio.

    Use a bit of RTV on the cam seals.


    BCY #1 ~101k miles




    BCY #2 ~59k miles


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IPfeueeh.jpg 
Views:	97 
Size:	75.3 KB 
ID:	19031   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	W89GZfsh.jpg 
Views:	99 
Size:	68.2 KB 
ID:	19032   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	fylGx79l.jpg 
Views:	98 
Size:	78.4 KB 
ID:	19033   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	wxjGlipl.jpg 
Views:	98 
Size:	83.3 KB 
ID:	19034  
    03 RS6 Avus/Ebony #905593 resurrected 6MT, 04 Avalanche Z71, 87 T-Bird Turbo Coupe (351W T5), 04 Aprilia RSVR Factory

  6. #42
    Registered User redwoodkiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by bethridg View Post
    I'm not saying your motor hasn't been apart recently but I had the same sharpie L & R on the two BCYs I have in my possession. Change the tensioner pads! You truly don't know the history, especially with the shoddy work/mismatch hardware. Added peace of mind you won't have to tear it apart again so soon. Just ask Jolio.
    Oh, now that's interesting. Maybe that is factory procedure to label them that way. Actually, now that I think about it - it's not that surprising, given that these limited edition motors were all assembled by Cosworth, by hand, in the UK. Sloppy Brits (kidding).

    I'm still of the firm belief that the heads on mine have been apart and reco'd (or replaced). The varnishing is not consistent between the valve covers and the head hardware. My heads look closest to your 59k miles version (yet mine have 106k miles on them). Still, point taken about not knowing the history - I'll change the tensioner pads. Thank's for the nudge @bethridg.
    Audi RS4 B7, Audi RS6 C5, Audi Allroad 2.7T C5, Audi S4 Cab 4.2L 6MT B6, Audi A6 6MT 2.7T C5, '77 Mercedes 450SEL

  7. #43
    Registered User redwoodkiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    21
    Well, crap. Note to all messing with chain tensioners - don't compress the pistons too much, or it could get stuck - real stuck.

    Removed the chain tensioners to replace the pads. One done fine - but the other, not so much. As I was pressing hard to get the pad on, the piston went so far down into the chamber that it got stuck. No worries, just pull it out. Except it wont come it - nothing get's it out. In my attempt to retract, I broke one of the guide posts (cast aluminium - it didn't take much to break it). Sucks! Anyone been here before? Or am I the only chump?



    So, a replacement is ordered (a used one from Wolf Auto - I don't feel good about trusting one of the the cheap AMZN/eBay ones - thoughts?), but I can't proceed under the valve covers until it arrives.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_9742_sm.jpg 
Views:	81 
Size:	127.2 KB 
ID:	19037  
    Audi RS4 B7, Audi RS6 C5, Audi Allroad 2.7T C5, Audi S4 Cab 4.2L 6MT B6, Audi A6 6MT 2.7T C5, '77 Mercedes 450SEL

  8. #44
    Registered User redwoodkiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    21
    In the meantime, these arrived (starter blanket, and the newer longer manifold fasteners for the recesses) - so I can get back to the part of the procedure.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_9734_sm.jpg 
Views:	80 
Size:	146.8 KB 
ID:	19038  
    Audi RS4 B7, Audi RS6 C5, Audi Allroad 2.7T C5, Audi S4 Cab 4.2L 6MT B6, Audi A6 6MT 2.7T C5, '77 Mercedes 450SEL

  9. #45
    Registered User redwoodkiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    21
    Paging @SteveKen

    I'm testing the mesh of the starter, but doing so by pulling out the pinion manually. I don't want to test crank and turn it over as I've got the crankshaft locked and the cams are out while I wait for the replacement tensioner - but I do want to button all this up and get the gearbox on. Can you eyeball this and give your blessing:



    The pinion teeth find their place at about half way in. As best as I can tell (by examining the scouring on the stock ring-gear, that's about where things were with the stock-starter/auto).


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_9745_sm.jpg 
Views:	79 
Size:	57.1 KB 
ID:	19039   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_9746_sm.jpg 
Views:	77 
Size:	60.6 KB 
ID:	19040  
    Audi RS4 B7, Audi RS6 C5, Audi Allroad 2.7T C5, Audi S4 Cab 4.2L 6MT B6, Audi A6 6MT 2.7T C5, '77 Mercedes 450SEL

  10. #46
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA area
    Posts
    1,234
    I think what you have in the picture looks good.

    I've never had any issue with starter engagement, even though there is some wiggle room. Axially it's fixed and the guide says it shouldn't protrude past the back of the ring gear on the flywheel. half to 2/3rds into the flywheel is optimal, so this is built into the adapter.

    Radially, there is some wiggle room.

    How do you currently have it attached now without the transmission in place? I keep a bolt that matches the thread in lower starter hole of the block (M14 x 1 I think) to get the bottom completely centered and try to eyeball the top based on where I think it's centered as it pivots on the lower hole. Then with that lower bolt tightened, I actually run the starter using a makeshift harness to crank over the engine to check engagement. I've never had to adjust one, though with everything just visually centered. If you just have it attached with an M12 and a nut then you can't install the adapter & transmission unless you remove it and you have to readjust it again.

    The starter can stay locked into position for mating the transmission if the temporary bolt on the lower is flush or protrudes a mm or so. Then when the trans and adapter are in place you can remove the lower bolt after the top is tightened and then use the lower 120mm bolt and nut to sandwich everything together.
    2010 GTI - 2004 Silver S4 Avant 6MT -> 2.7T project
    2012 Q7 TDI S-Line - 2007 A3 3.2 S-Line
    1977 Honda CBR 750-F2 Super Sport -> cafe racer project on the mothballs

  11. #47
    Registered User redwoodkiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    21
    Ok, good.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveKen View Post
    How do you currently have it attached now without the transmission in place? I keep a bolt that matches the thread in lower starter hole of the block (M14 x 1 I think) to get the bottom completely centered and try to eyeball the top based on where I think it's centered as it pivots on the lower hole.
    I'm doing exactly that. For the bottom bolt, I'm using a long wheel-lug bolt with a cone shoulder - which ensures a centered fit and does not protrude. For the top, I eyeballed-it as as I could with an eye-line through the ring-gear to the pinion teeth - and that got me the result you see above.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveKen View Post
    Then with that lower bolt tightened, I actually run the starter using a makeshift harness to crank over the engine to check engagement.
    I can't do that with my cams out. So, I'm just going to go with how things are based on nothing looking our of order.

    Thanks Steve.
    Audi RS4 B7, Audi RS6 C5, Audi Allroad 2.7T C5, Audi S4 Cab 4.2L 6MT B6, Audi A6 6MT 2.7T C5, '77 Mercedes 450SEL

  12. #48
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    4
    Great project and great work too. Love this kind of work.... cleaning and updating

  13. #49
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA area
    Posts
    1,234
    Quote Originally Posted by redwoodkiwi View Post

    I can't do that with my cams out. So, I'm just going to go with how things are based on nothing looking our of order.

    You could actually crank the engine over if all the cams, timing belt and plugs are removed. All the valves will remain closed so there's no risk for interference.

    It's probably not worth it unless you wanted to do a cold compression or leakdown test. I've fond that leakdown testing isn't reliable all the time when the cams are installed since the adjusters could never let all 5 valves completely close when I want them to. Anyway, I digress.
    2010 GTI - 2004 Silver S4 Avant 6MT -> 2.7T project
    2012 Q7 TDI S-Line - 2007 A3 3.2 S-Line
    1977 Honda CBR 750-F2 Super Sport -> cafe racer project on the mothballs

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •