Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 19 to 36 of 49

Thread: OMG, another 6MT conversion thread.

  1. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    97
    Redwoodkiwi, you'll come across a lot of moments that seem discouraging, I'll tell you right now... keep pushing through it man. Theres a workaround for everything. I'd suggest getting a good set of ez outs. The set Irwin has at Advanced is great, and they'll remove hex sockets like its nothing. It's how I removed my oil cooler/engine mount bracket as well as flywheel studs once I grounded the heads off. Keep pushing through and dont be scurd to bend that oil feed line next to the starter.

    Cant wait to see this beast running. Also curious as to how that 4:1 diff is going to come into play in terms of hard driving. If you need any parts or specific bolts such as the intake manifold ones don't hesitate to reach out... I have 2 complete BCY engines in my garage!

  2. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    18
    Dammit....I'm not going to follow this! I've already talked myself out of this project a couple of times, but keep getting lured back in with these build threads. I have a perfectly fine '03 A6 6spd sedan sitting on the outside of my garage for the swap parts and my wife Ok'd my garage expansion plans from a single to a 28-30' wide & extra deep option...time to talk to my architect friend and builder neighbor to get this done!

    My son and I have discussed parting the A6 for a fun project...seems like now is the time...


  3. #21
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    97
    Quote Originally Posted by Muggy View Post
    Dammit....I'm not going to follow this! I've already talked myself out of this project a couple of times, but keep getting lured back in with these build threads. I have a perfectly fine '03 A6 6spd sedan sitting on the outside of my garage for the swap parts and my wife Ok'd my garage expansion plans from a single to a 28-30' wide & extra deep option...time to talk to my architect friend and builder neighbor to get this done!

    My son and I have discussed parting the A6 for a fun project...seems like now is the time...

    We're all waiting my friend

  4. #22
    Registered User redwoodkiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    21
    Got the passenger side manifold off! But crikey, what an ordeal.

    Ground down an already-thin-wall socket, to fit into the recess, thinking that it was 12 outer hex in there.



    Only to find that it is not a 12mm outer hex. It's 13mm. No way is a 13mm socket getting in there (it would have to be ground so much that the integrity of the socket would break at the slightest bit of torque).

    So what's a lad to do? A 7mm hex just turns freely in the inner hex.

    So, I took an 8mm hex, ground off the end-bevels (to give it a more aggressive bite). ever-so-slightly ground off .5mm off each flat side of the shank and hammered it in.



    And, got the little bugger out.



    So with the manifold off, I could then get to repositioning the turbo oil line so that it would not interfere with the starter.

    Q: The image below shows how I have bent the bracket 90 degrees moving the oil line position from where it had been (shown by yellow circle) to its new position (red circle). By doing so, I have moved it very close to the manifold - it's hard to see, but there is about a 1 to 2mm gap between the line and the manifold. Could this become an issue? (I'm worried about heat exchange from the manifold). Before moving/bending the oil line it was running with about 5mm clearance.




    And then as it comes around the front, it is just kisses the manifold (whereas, before bending, it had about 3mm clearance).



    I do like getting it well away from the starter solenoid - but I am a little worried about heat induction from the manifold into the oil line (although, to what extent that it be greater than what it was before - I don't know). Or, am I just overthinking all of this?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_9708_sm.jpg 
Views:	140 
Size:	58.2 KB 
ID:	19017   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_9709_sm.jpg 
Views:	144 
Size:	71.0 KB 
ID:	19018   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_9710_sm.jpg 
Views:	149 
Size:	117.8 KB 
ID:	19019   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_9711_sm.jpg 
Views:	135 
Size:	45.2 KB 
ID:	19020  
    Audi RS4 B7, Audi RS6 C5, Audi Allroad 2.7T C5, Audi S4 Cab 4.2L 6MT B6, Audi A6 6MT 2.7T C5, '77 Mercedes 450SEL

  5. #23
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Evil Empire
    Posts
    382
    Quote Originally Posted by redwoodkiwi View Post
    I do like getting it well away from the starter solenoid - but I am a little worried about heat induction from the manifold into the oil line (although, to what extent that it be greater than what it was before - I don't know). Or, am I just overthinking all of this?
    I don't like it, and would prefer the tube being too close to starter, than too close to the manifold.
    That being said, under normal operation it's unlikely to cause any issues:
    1) The manifold outer shell has an "internal" air gap with the actual manifold.
    2) The tube in question carries oil, so oil will cool any "excess" heat.

    The reason I don't like it: oil coking after you shut the car off.
    I don't know how big of a deal extra 2-3 mils of air gap are, but every little bit helps.
    Also, using a heat-resistant blanket for starter is probably a good idea.
    Shrug.

  6. #24
    Registered User redwoodkiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    21
    Thanks @nubcake - I had a feeling there would be a general dislike for it being that close to the manifold. I spent far too long wrestling with it this afternoon, but it did pay off in yielding another couple of mm's all round.
    Audi RS4 B7, Audi RS6 C5, Audi Allroad 2.7T C5, Audi S4 Cab 4.2L 6MT B6, Audi A6 6MT 2.7T C5, '77 Mercedes 450SEL

  7. #25
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA area
    Posts
    1,234
    Quote Originally Posted by redwoodkiwi View Post
    Got the passenger side manifold off! But crikey, what an ordeal.

    Ground down an already-thin-wall socket, to fit into the recess, thinking that it was 12 outer hex in there.



    Only to find that it is not a 12mm outer hex. It's 13mm. No way is a 13mm socket getting in there (it would have to be ground so much that the integrity of the socket would break at the slightest bit of torque).

    So what's a lad to do? A 7mm hex just turns freely in the inner hex.

    So, I took an 8mm hex, ground off the end-bevels (to give it a more aggressive bite). ever-so-slightly ground off .5mm off each flat side of the shank and hammered it in.



    And, got the little bugger out.



    So with the manifold off, I could then get to repositioning the turbo oil line so that it would not interfere with the starter.

    Q: The image below shows how I have bent the bracket 90 degrees moving the oil line position from where it had been (shown by yellow circle) to its new position (red circle). By doing so, I have moved it very close to the manifold - it's hard to see, but there is about a 1 to 2mm gap between the line and the manifold. Could this become an issue? (I'm worried about heat exchange from the manifold). Before moving/bending the oil line it was running with about 5mm clearance.




    And then as it comes around the front, it is just kisses the manifold (whereas, before bending, it had about 3mm clearance).



    I do like getting it well away from the starter solenoid - but I am a little worried about heat induction from the manifold into the oil line (although, to what extent that it be greater than what it was before - I don't know). Or, am I just overthinking all of this?
    I've often thought of this but have not way of proving whether the conduction causes any appreciable difference in temperature to harm anything. It's the supply line so in essence it's elevating the temp of the oil prior to it hitting the turbos.

    One thing that you need to be super mindful of is not to ground out the starter voltage to this supply line. I know if 2 people that did this and the result could be very bad when it's arcs a hole in the supply line and oil spills over everything.
    2010 GTI - 2004 Silver S4 Avant 6MT -> 2.7T project
    2012 Q7 TDI S-Line - 2007 A3 3.2 S-Line
    1977 Honda CBR 750-F2 Super Sport -> cafe racer project on the mothballs

  8. #26
    Registered User redwoodkiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveKen View Post
    One thing that you need to be super mindful of is not to ground out the starter voltage to this supply line. I know if 2 people that did this and the result could be very bad when it's arcs a hole in the supply line and oil spills over everything.
    Yes. I'm very mindful of that. I think I may have read something you wrote (either on this forum or another) alluding to the potential for short. In this configuration above, there appears plenty of room for the live starter feed to coexist as the oil line has been elevated up and well out of the way. The downside being that it is now much closer to the manifold. @nubcake's comment re: the manifold having an outer jacket gives me some comfort.
    Audi RS4 B7, Audi RS6 C5, Audi Allroad 2.7T C5, Audi S4 Cab 4.2L 6MT B6, Audi A6 6MT 2.7T C5, '77 Mercedes 450SEL

  9. #27
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    65
    Consider heat wrapping the starter. There are threads on this, where solenoid I think overheats and car won't start for 5 hours. My first 6 speed had this issue, until we wrapped the starter.

    HTH
    2003 Avus RS6 01E, nubcake, Hotchkis
    2003 Daytona RS6 01E, nubcake, Hotchkis, rear ended at 50mph, totaled
    1991 Acura NSX, supercharged, 425rwhp.

  10. #28
    Registered User redwoodkiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    21
    Ordered a starter blanket. Thanks for the reco @nubcake and @boca_rat
    Audi RS4 B7, Audi RS6 C5, Audi Allroad 2.7T C5, Audi S4 Cab 4.2L 6MT B6, Audi A6 6MT 2.7T C5, '77 Mercedes 450SEL

  11. #29
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA area
    Posts
    1,234
    Quote Originally Posted by GreggPDX View Post

    The SteveKen kit is really good, but I found a couple of the bellhousing bolts were shorter than I liked, so I ended up getting longer versions. You can check yourself and make the call, it's probably fine either way. Also, I messed around with oil line routing quite a bit. One issue you may have read about is starter heat-soak. I believe this is caused by the metal oil line being wedged between the exhaust manifold and starter solenoid, causing the solenoid to become a heat sink. I worked very hard to make sure there was a distinct air gap between the manifold and oil lines. I also wrapped the the starter in a heat blanket. Nothing fancy, just a piece of heat-shield fabric secured with a stainless zip-tie. I also ended up grinding down one of the unused metal "bosses" on the passenger turbo compressor housing. It was close to pinching the oil feed line, so grinding it down freed up space for the line to fit better. When you are fitting this stuff back together, you'll see what I mean. I probably spent more time getting the oil line where I wanted it, than any other single thing. Some people seem to have no issues, but not me!
    I actually listened to your feedback and have changed out all the hardware so that none of the existing bolts are used. I just needed to personally verify whether some of the 75mm long stock bolts could be swapped safely with 80mm ones among others. All shouldered bolts and nylon lock nuts as well so no need for washers.



    Quote Originally Posted by redwoodkiwi View Post
    Ordered a starter blanket. Thanks for the reco @nubcake and @boca_rat
    The heat soak issues haven't been seen lately since I switched to the MSD starter. I was really unhappy with the quality of the Tilton unit and switched it out. The original factory in Japan that produced Tilton's starters was wiped out in the tsunami and after that, there were dimensional issues as well as the hot start issues. I personally never had any issues with heat soak. Since the ground is through the nose, the mating surfaces have to be super clean and also the same goes for the strap between the block and body.
    2010 GTI - 2004 Silver S4 Avant 6MT -> 2.7T project
    2012 Q7 TDI S-Line - 2007 A3 3.2 S-Line
    1977 Honda CBR 750-F2 Super Sport -> cafe racer project on the mothballs

  12. #30
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    65
    Sorry all, never saw the earlier comment about heat soak....doh. One other thing. I have stage 4 clutch in mine and it slips, and seems previous owner had issues from the get go. There was mention somewhere that a clutch line was also too close to an oil line. I haven't pursued this yet though so take this with a grain of salt at this point. HTH
    2003 Avus RS6 01E, nubcake, Hotchkis
    2003 Daytona RS6 01E, nubcake, Hotchkis, rear ended at 50mph, totaled
    1991 Acura NSX, supercharged, 425rwhp.

  13. #31
    Registered User hahnmgh63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Roy, WA
    Posts
    3,082
    Oh no, I think I have the Tilton starter, don't know if I'm pre or post Tsunami I went with the cast iron slave cylinder and got a Stainless line from USP motorsports and I ran the line behind the tin heatshield that lines the inside of the transmission tunnel, you can run it from the slave at the bottom and right out the top.
    2003 White RS6 2013 Midnight Blue S5
    2013 Daytona RS5 2x944 Turbo's 1974 911 w/'91 3.6ltr motor
    Roy, WA

  14. #32
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    West Linn, OR
    Posts
    249
    Quote Originally Posted by hahnmgh63 View Post
    Oh no, I think I have the Tilton starter, don't know if I'm pre or post Tsunami I went with the cast iron slave cylinder and got a Stainless line from USP motorsports and I ran the line behind the tin heatshield that lines the inside of the transmission tunnel, you can run it from the slave at the bottom and right out the top.
    Tsunami was 2011, so probably post, but FWIW, I have the Tilton and have had zero problems.

  15. #33
    Registered User redwoodkiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    21
    Good info @SteveKen. Having the MSD starter gives me comfort. I'll still wrap it though. Might also wrap the turbo oil feed line.

    Not much progress made over last couple of days - waiting for parts and other projects interfered. But today I did get to gutting the pre-cats from the stock downpipes. I had previously thought to use aftermarket downpipes, but after reading about others struggling to work with the placement of the 02 sensor bung holes (getting in the way of shifter linkage) and at the suggestion from @nubcake, I decided to stick with stock and remove the pre-cats.

    A job I do not care to do ever again. What a mess, and what a fight these cats put up. Took me the best part of five hours. Wish i had welding skills.







    I tore out the braided shield from the flexipipe on one of the downpipes while wrestling with it. Didn't realize it was happening until it was over. Not sure what do about it. Annoyed.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_9731_sm.jpg 
Views:	72 
Size:	149.7 KB 
ID:	19022   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_9732_sm.jpg 
Views:	73 
Size:	85.6 KB 
ID:	19023   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_9733_sm.jpg 
Views:	71 
Size:	145.0 KB 
ID:	19024  
    Audi RS4 B7, Audi RS6 C5, Audi Allroad 2.7T C5, Audi S4 Cab 4.2L 6MT B6, Audi A6 6MT 2.7T C5, '77 Mercedes 450SEL

  16. #34
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA area
    Posts
    1,234
    Quote Originally Posted by redwoodkiwi View Post
    Good info @SteveKen. Having the MSD starter gives me comfort. I'll still wrap it though. Might also wrap the turbo oil feed line.

    Not much progress made over last couple of days - waiting for parts and other projects interfered. But today I did get to gutting the pre-cats from the stock downpipes. I had previously thought to use aftermarket downpipes, but after reading about others struggling to work with the placement of the 02 sensor bung holes (getting in the way of shifter linkage) and at the suggestion from @nubcake, I decided to stick with stock and remove the pre-cats.

    A job I do not care to do ever again. What a mess, and what a fight these cats put up. Took me the best part of five hours. Wish i had welding skills.







    I tore out the braided shield from the flexipipe on one of the downpipes while wrestling with it. Didn't realize it was happening until it was over. Not sure what do about it. Annoyed.
    At this point, you can get new vibrant flex joints but chances are they will not match the exact dimensions of what you have now.

    I'd still recommend the XSpower ones. The left front O2 sensor bung can be bent out of the way of the shift rod when it's in 5-6 pretty easily. I just heat it up with a propane torch and insert a long 1/2" socket extension in the bung and then bend it out of the way.



    If you have everything setup outside of the car before you put it in, it's not too bad and you can test it out.

    The only pipes I've worked with that needed no modifications at all were Millteks. Otherwise, the stock ones you need to clearance the stock left side trans mount and add some abrasion resistance to the left rear O2 sensor. With the XSPower ones, you need to adjust the bung position on the left front and clearance the stock left side trans mount.

    I dug up some pictures of the mods needed ot the left side trans mount and also the axle shield that hits the turbine housing.


    After mod:


    It's a repetitive process until you get it right:


    Axle shield clearanced:


    I put a piece of DEI heat tape on both sides to add some heat resistance:


    Installed:


    Last edited by SteveKen; November 21st, 2019 at 15:48.
    2010 GTI - 2004 Silver S4 Avant 6MT -> 2.7T project
    2012 Q7 TDI S-Line - 2007 A3 3.2 S-Line
    1977 Honda CBR 750-F2 Super Sport -> cafe racer project on the mothballs

  17. #35
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA area
    Posts
    1,234
    Quote Originally Posted by redwoodkiwi View Post

    So what's a lad to do? A 7mm hex just turns freely in the inner hex.

    So, I took an 8mm hex, ground off the end-bevels (to give it a more aggressive bite). ever-so-slightly ground off .5mm off each flat side of the shank and hammered it in.



    And, got the little bugger out.
    I assume that you are going to use a new replacement when you re-install it? Check to see that the accompanying stud is inserted far enough. If too much of it is sticking out, then it could be hindering the amount of bite you have on the inner hex. I've also seen replacement nuts that look like long shafts so that the hex is outside of the manifold. I might have some lying around here somewhere....
    2010 GTI - 2004 Silver S4 Avant 6MT -> 2.7T project
    2012 Q7 TDI S-Line - 2007 A3 3.2 S-Line
    1977 Honda CBR 750-F2 Super Sport -> cafe racer project on the mothballs

  18. #36
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA area
    Posts
    1,234
    Quote Originally Posted by boca rat View Post
    Sorry all, never saw the earlier comment about heat soak....doh. One other thing. I have stage 4 clutch in mine and it slips, and seems previous owner had issues from the get go. There was mention somewhere that a clutch line was also too close to an oil line. I haven't pursued this yet though so take this with a grain of salt at this point. HTH
    The clutch line is essentially a brake line with brake fluid so it should be comparable to the brake lines when it comes to heat resistance. The issue I've seen is with used 2.7t slave lines that have seen better days that are ruptured internally and are otherwise visually ok until you actuate the clutch and can see the line swell or even leak shortly after being installed.
    Last edited by SteveKen; November 21st, 2019 at 16:20.
    2010 GTI - 2004 Silver S4 Avant 6MT -> 2.7T project
    2012 Q7 TDI S-Line - 2007 A3 3.2 S-Line
    1977 Honda CBR 750-F2 Super Sport -> cafe racer project on the mothballs

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •