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Thread: OMG, another 6MT conversion thread.

  1. #55
    Registered User redwoodkiwi's Avatar
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    Back at it yesterday. Gearbox on, shifter and linkages attached. Passenger turbo back on along with all associated in/out coolant/oil lines, new gaskets, seals and crush washers.

    Happy with clearance of turbo oil feeder line as it tucks in behind the manifold (this was a discussion point earlier in thread). Final position has it clear of the manifold by 5mm all round.

    Spent far too long removing a couple of sheared studs on the turbo-downpipe flange (that I had conveniently forgotten about since removal) - necessitating requisite amounts of heat, brute strength, cursing, drilling, more cursing, beer, and re-tapping. Glad that's behind me.



    Question to the OG conversion wizards regarding the Crank Position Sensor: Is the 2.7T CPS required? Or can I use the stock RS6 sensor with a spacer? AFAICT, the sensor is the same mechanism for both - but the RS6 auto version is longer (which, if used, would surely get messed up). Anybody been down this path before? I find no mention on the forum. Actually, what I find on the forum is people referring to the speed sensor - which, I thought was the sensor located at the driver axle flange on the transmission - does that need to be changed too? I'm a bit confused (and not helped by people using the nomenclature to describe one when I think they mean the other).
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    Audi RS4 B7, Audi RS6 C5, Audi Allroad 2.7T C5, Audi S4 Cab 4.2L 6MT B6, Audi A6 6MT 2.7T C5, '77 Mercedes 450SEL

  2. #56
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    Spacer works for CPS.
    Speed sensor works as is IIRC.

  3. #57
    Registered User redwoodkiwi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nubcake View Post
    Spacer works for CPS.
    Speed sensor works as is IIRC.
    Thank you @nubcake. Did you do this? If so, what did you use as a spacer? (said, while looking around the garage for something that a I can use).

    Pedal assembly today. Not looking forward to squeezing my upsidedown arse into the footwell.
    Audi RS4 B7, Audi RS6 C5, Audi Allroad 2.7T C5, Audi S4 Cab 4.2L 6MT B6, Audi A6 6MT 2.7T C5, '77 Mercedes 450SEL

  4. #58
    Registered User hahnmgh63's Avatar
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    I used the 2.7t CPS but as Nubcake said you can use the OEM with a spacer but it will be sticking out a ways.

    078906435 distance piece, impulse sender 4,0MM 1
    distance piece, impulse sender, for this use: 10,5MM, 059 906 435 A, 078 906 435

    059906435A distance piece, impulse sender 6,5MM 1

    078906435 distance piece, impulse sender 4,0MM 1

    059906435 distance piece, impulse sender 10,5MM 1

    07806435 distance piece, impulse sender 4,0MM 1
    2003 White RS6 2013 Midnight Blue S5
    2013 Daytona RS5 2x944 Turbo's 1974 911 w/'91 3.6ltr motor
    Roy, WA

  5. #59
    Registered User redwoodkiwi's Avatar
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    @hahnmgh63 - where did you pull that detail from? Not questioning it, just curious as to where I need to go to find that level of detail on my own.

    Anyway, as it turned out, I could not get the stock RS6/Tip CPS into place. After fabricating a spacer and getting that on the shaft I just could not find the clearance needed for a clean insertion - not without moving the turbo housing (which I did not want to do). It was close, very close, but the angle was off just enough so that force would have been required. So, after conceding defeat, I ran down to OReilly's and picked up a Bosch 2.7T version. Even that, with a shaft length 10mm shorter than the stock version, it was difficult getting into place. Wouldn't want to replace that with the motor in the car!

    Got the pedals in. I opted for the method that involves leaving the existing assembly in place while swapping out, and adding, just the components needed to make it a so that one can row (the brake pedal is swapped for the narrower version, the clutch pedal is added along with the master cylinder, the clutch spring, and a couple of switches). For those considering this path, it's possible to do this as the main pedal assembly bracket is the same for both Auto and Manual c5 platform cars. However, it is fiddly, and challenging to do while inverted upside down in the foot-well. That clutch spring almost got the better of me. The other method is to remove the entire assembly as one unit and replace with the other. Each method has it's gotcha's and I'm not sure if one is actually easier/quicker than the other. To remove the entire assembly you do need to disassemble the booster at the firewall to gain access to a couple of important bolts - not a trivial task, as the reservoir and brake master cylinder need to come out as well. That said, the latter method may be easier than what I just went through.

    Routed the line from the clutch master, through the steering rack cavity, so that it is now in place for connecting to the slave. A task made easier by using the flexible braided line from USP Motorsports.

    Wiring is half done. I'm finding it time-consuming (partly because I have OCD and require every join to be cleanly soldered and heatshrunk). I had to re-route the speed sensor cable (across the top of the block) as the tail wasn't long enough to reach the sensor switch on the 01E when coming from its stock route low on the left side). I haven't quite figured out how to wire up the reverse switch yet - but I'm sure the interwebs will help. Anybody got a pinout of the round plug that would otherwise be connected to the TIP? I'm pretty sure that's where I'll find what I need.

    Just a couple of minor things to be done and she's ready to go back in. I realized today that I don't have gear oil to fill the 01E - so there's that. Complete the wiring, get the transmission mounts on, the down-pipes - and that's about it. Very close.
    Audi RS4 B7, Audi RS6 C5, Audi Allroad 2.7T C5, Audi S4 Cab 4.2L 6MT B6, Audi A6 6MT 2.7T C5, '77 Mercedes 450SEL

  6. #60
    Registered User hahnmgh63's Avatar
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    An old version of ETKA. If the numbers have been superseded you should still be able to plug those part numbers into a site like Genuine Audi or Sunset and they should show the superseded part #.
    I was one of those that swapped out the whole pedal assembly, not sure which one is easier as it's tight under the dash either way. I did have both front seats out as I was swapping in Euro Recaros at the same time. I also used the USP braided line and ran it under the transmission tunnel heat shield, attached it to a cast iron clutch slave cylinder.
    2003 White RS6 2013 Midnight Blue S5
    2013 Daytona RS5 2x944 Turbo's 1974 911 w/'91 3.6ltr motor
    Roy, WA

  7. #61
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    I just got on board reading this project. I have been wanting to do a manual swap on mine for a long time but never pulled the trigger from the fear of the involvement and shear volume of work that has to be done. Also, just like you, i can wrench, but the basics and never got that deep into a project outside of a couple clutches and regular maintenance.

    Nice work and looking forward to the conclusion of your project, it gives me hope to do mine eventually!

  8. #62
    Registered User redwoodkiwi's Avatar
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    Not much progress over last few days given the obligations of the holidays, etc.
    (Umm, actually, no progress whatsoever.)

    But, I did get the motor and trans back in the car before Christmas - just never got to posting the pics.

    Going back in...



    I did not take the motor/trans out with the subframe - I should have - installation would be so much easier. I think.


    And, in.




    Question:

    Notice the alignment at the front engine mount. I do not recall how this was before removal, but there are tell-tale marks on the bracket that suggest that the alignment of the rail mount anchor and the engine mount anchor were true. These photos indicate that the alignment is off by about 15mm. Or, said another way; the motor is set back 15mm from where it had been earlier.





    The motor and trans are comfortably sitting in all other mount locations - with the main motor mounts sitting at their center-most positions. So, I do not understand how this is even possible. That is, of course, if I am even right that it was true and not skew to begin with (I'd not be thinking this way if it were not for the marks on the rail mount suggesting that it was aligned true).

    Installed anyway:



    Thoughts?


    Oil Cooler:
    Would have started her up - but, realized that I have an oil cooler issue to deal with. On removal, I could not get the return line off the combination oil/trans-oil cooler. Got the feeder side off, but not the other. In my attempt to breaker it off, I shifted it just enough to crack the seal - so it now leaks. I somehow have to get it tight again, or off completely - but I am unable to budge it in either direction. Heat has not worked. Not sure what to do just yet - but, for the moment, it means I am unable to fill the motor with oil and unable to start. Bah.
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    Audi RS4 B7, Audi RS6 C5, Audi Allroad 2.7T C5, Audi S4 Cab 4.2L 6MT B6, Audi A6 6MT 2.7T C5, '77 Mercedes 450SEL

  9. #63
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    You used incorrect part to bolt it on.
    This small "aluminum looking" piece is just a spacer, meant to be placed on the leftmost 2 bolts in your pic.
    You need a big steel (black) part with 3 holes, which goes above it.

    I don't have a pic on hand.

  10. #64
    Registered User redwoodkiwi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nubcake View Post
    You used incorrect part to bolt it on.
    This small "aluminum looking" piece is just a spacer, meant to be placed on the leftmost 2 bolts in your pic.
    You need a big steel (black) part with 3 holes, which goes above it.

    I don't have a pic on hand.
    ah. well, that's because I'm an idiot.
    Damn. Ok. Now I need to find what you're talking about.
    Audi RS4 B7, Audi RS6 C5, Audi Allroad 2.7T C5, Audi S4 Cab 4.2L 6MT B6, Audi A6 6MT 2.7T C5, '77 Mercedes 450SEL

  11. #65
    Registered User hahnmgh63's Avatar
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    What Nubcake said, that is the wrong bracket. Here is a pic that you can see the bracket in.
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    And that spacer you are using goes under this bracket. Right off hand it looks like the engine/trans are too far back.
    2003 White RS6 2013 Midnight Blue S5
    2013 Daytona RS5 2x944 Turbo's 1974 911 w/'91 3.6ltr motor
    Roy, WA

  12. #66
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    I'm not so sure about the motor being too far back...from the pic in hahnmgh63's post, there is an angle in that bracket which looks about the same as the OP's offset to match. We'll see once the bracket is located though and if it fits or not.

    Really enjoying the thread, keep up the good work!

    Thanks to a strong business year and generous family, holiday bonus and gifts have fully funded my garage expansion...architect and contractors are working on it now...I'll be sooo much more inclined to pull off a project like this once I have more than a skinny single garage!


  13. #67
    Registered User hahnmgh63's Avatar
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    I've got one of those video inspection cameras I can snake in there and take a look at mine since it's altogether and see if it sits back, I should be able to take some pics with it too.
    P.S. Ok, a little grainy but you can see how the mount goes. The pic is take with the camera going from the left side of the car looking towards the motor mount on the right side, crossways in front of the engine.
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    I'll E-mail you the picture itself which is a little better definition than get uploaded on here.
    Last edited by hahnmgh63; December 29th, 2019 at 18:37.
    2003 White RS6 2013 Midnight Blue S5
    2013 Daytona RS5 2x944 Turbo's 1974 911 w/'91 3.6ltr motor
    Roy, WA

  14. #68
    Registered User redwoodkiwi's Avatar
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    Gents,

    Many thanks for lending a hand to solve this. I'm not able to lay may hands on the correct mounting bracket as I am not near the car - and will not be until the new year (traveling). But, I do have a vague recollection of seeing it and wondering what it was (somehow, I failed to place it in my otherwise orderly collection of bits for reverse-order installation).

    @muggy is right, the bracket is shaped in a way that validates the motor being situated where I show it in the photos. The image shared by @hahnmh63 validates this as well - despite being grainy, you can see the bend in the bracket. The tell-tale marks on the rail-side mount location must be from the spacer that @nubcake refers to. All is right in the universe.
    Audi RS4 B7, Audi RS6 C5, Audi Allroad 2.7T C5, Audi S4 Cab 4.2L 6MT B6, Audi A6 6MT 2.7T C5, '77 Mercedes 450SEL

  15. #69
    Registered User redwoodkiwi's Avatar
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    Ok. Back at the car.

    ...and found the front mount bracket.

    Installed.



    Much better. :-)

    Conversion bits that came from audis4parts.com included shifter console insert and boot from a b5 not a c5 - so had to mod existing auto-shifter insert to get this result (hint, patience required for the procedure):



    Happy with the result though.

    Hoping to get the car buttoned up, remainder of drive-train installed, exhaust on, started, put on the ground and driven out of the garage today (all pending successes with oil cooler, clutch bleeding, leak testing, and no hidden surprises). Nothing like a bit of enthusiastic optimism for the new year.
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    Audi RS4 B7, Audi RS6 C5, Audi Allroad 2.7T C5, Audi S4 Cab 4.2L 6MT B6, Audi A6 6MT 2.7T C5, '77 Mercedes 450SEL

  16. #70
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    Glad to hear you're on the home stretch. Just some advice for when you bleed the clutch, make sure the rear end is about 1-2 ft above the front. The 01e slave cylinder will never properly bleed if it's not.

    Also with that, there should be plenty of room to get your hand in from the top if you deleted the SAI and disconnect the breather hose that comes off the driverside turbo inlet. Takes about 5 minutes to fully bleed by yourself and a 3' 2x4 for the clutch pedal. Can't wait to see it on the road!

    20190608_231330 by Joel Francisco

  17. #71
    Registered User redwoodkiwi's Avatar
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    Good news. Bad news.

    Drove the car yesterday and day before - putting about 50mi on it. Felt GREAT, solid, sorted. So far, only two minor issues. A coolant leak at the radiator main hose (requiring bumper-removal and re-seating) and no reverse. The no-reverse was a bit concerning, but turned out to be an adjustment required at the shifter end of the linkage. Both were easily fixed.

    As others have reported while at this stage, the idle is a little wobbly (hunting between 700-800rpm), and the ABS and Traction Control lamps are lit. No CEL (which surprised me - I expected that the SAI delete would have flipped that switch).

    I had not driven the car much at all since acquisition - putting only a few miles on it with a dodgy trans in limp mode. So this was really the first time uninhibited. The car feels a lot like my RS4. A lot of low down torque - surprisingly little lag. Pushed-back-into-the-seat torque - and this is while babying the clutch. Oh, the clutch - a stage 4 ringer (non-puck) - it bites hard (and will take a little getting used to), but not so hard that it will be uncomfortable to drive. This car wants to play. Excellent!

    So, onto the tune.

    The bad news:

    Reached out to nubcake to begin the tune process. Nubcake, despite being on a very different time-zone is very responsive and quick. With a nubcake tune ready for flashing (and with nubcake online with remote access to my PC, and ready to guide) we started the process. Long story short - we bricked the ECU - and boot loading is extremely tricky. Turns out, the ECU was already sporting a tune -and was hardware modded. Had no clue of this until opening it up.



    Notice the daughter board. It has been installed and takes the place of the OEM AM29F800BB chip.


    Board removed:




    And close ups of board:




    There are no markings to suggest origin tuner. Hoping that someone can identify.

    Options:
    Determine original tuner - locate and send in for reverse-mod/crypto
    Source AM29F800BB chip and find someone that can reverse the mod.
    Source and a used ECU.

    Very frustrating to be at this point. Anti-climatic.

    My thoughts are, with this type of tune already installed, that it will be one of the bigger shops - APR, MTM, or similar. Does anyone have any experience with these style of tunes and/or experience that can identity the above?
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    Last edited by redwoodkiwi; January 8th, 2020 at 19:34.
    Audi RS4 B7, Audi RS6 C5, Audi Allroad 2.7T C5, Audi S4 Cab 4.2L 6MT B6, Audi A6 6MT 2.7T C5, '77 Mercedes 450SEL

  18. #72
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    I ran into the exact same situation when Daz remote tuned my car. It's how I found out mine had an MTM chipped ecu & tcu. Fortunately at the time he had one on his shelf he sent to me.


    I don't have anything else to offer for identification other than a picture of my MTM chip. I would bet your easiest solution out of those options is to try sourcing a used one. Hit up all the part outs.

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    03 RS6 Avus/Ebony #905593 resurrected 6MT, 04 Avalanche Z71, 87 T-Bird Turbo Coupe (351W T5), 04 Aprilia RSVR Factory

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