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Thread: is there an actual turbo upgrade that will bolt to RS6 manifolds?

  1. #19
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by travish325 View Post
    I think a lot of these threads die because no one has the means or the money to actually do this. Yes I could easily drop money in something else. But this has been my dream car since I was a kid and I have the means and the money to build it. I'm not looking for a 1000hp monster. Rather 650-700hp with decent boost response.
    I think you're about the 10-15th person to go down this path in the last 5 years. There have been a few I think that hit their mark, but most move on or keep moderately modified due to the trouble/time/cost. Not that the money isn't there, but how much $ per hp do you want to put into this type of car I guess. Tim's at AMD is interesting, maybe he'll chime in here, it's only been in the AMD shop for two years and $k? Keep in mind your daily driving ease is going out the window with a big clutch and high hp...
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  2. #20
    Registered User Bigglezworth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by travish325 View Post
    I would just like to know what all will and wont work with the gt2871 eliminator kit. Aka, will the oil lines, coolants lines, and wastegates all work with what is there? I am not worried about fabbing up inlets and outlets to get the plumbing to work.

    I think a lot of these threads die because no one has the means or the money to actually do this. Yes I could easily drop money in something else. But this has been my dream car since I was a kid and I have the means and the money to build it. I'm not looking for a 1000hp monster. Rather 650-700hp with decent boost response.
    Sounds to be like you're part of the new trifecta (with NubCake, GregPDX, and yourself) that are going to finally pull the plug and dump the time and money in modding things. No one else on this board has completed this extensive of a modification to gain additional power possibilities over what you can already do with cams, porting, meth injection and a decent tune. You are clearly going to need to consider transmission efforts also as a few of us on this board are already pushing our luck with their tranny's holding out with power levels that are easily 600hp....

    Best of luck!
    '02 S6 Avant Silver - Pokey | Carbon Black/Ebony RS6 w/ stuff - darn quick | '03 Daytona Grey/Ebony RS6 w/ more stuff - quicker yet | '91 NSX CDN issue with 6spd & BBSC - quicker yet and then some | '87 Buick GNX OEM clone w/ lots of stuff - quickest hands down

  3. #21
    Registered User ttboost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by travish325 View Post
    I would just like to know what all will and wont work with the gt2871 eliminator kit. Aka, will the oil lines, coolants lines, and wastegates all work with what is there? I am not worried about fabbing up inlets and outlets to get the plumbing to work.

    I think a lot of these threads die because no one has the means or the money to actually do this. Yes I could easily drop money in something else. But this has been my dream car since I was a kid and I have the means and the money to build it. I'm not looking for a 1000hp monster. Rather 650-700hp with decent boost response.
    As has been said...it will be a tough and expensive road... and you "likely" won't hit your goal, whatever that may be. Along with turbos, you need intercoolers and piping, all of which is an engineering marvel/nightmare in this car. Most of "us" that have started this "project", bailed because "we" determined that it will be a tremendous amount of time and money (lost time and money, if you care about that) to dump into a 15yr old car, and realized there are better and easier cars to mod, with greater results.

    My tuned 6sp RS6 made ~480awhp and ~560awtq, with stock turbos, and could "only" muster a 4.2-4.0 0-60 on it's best day. My 2013 S8 runs consistent 3.5's bone stock. Understandably, a huge price comparison with regard to price of entry, but at the end of the day, I determined I would rather spend the money here than there.
    Good luck on your travels. With enough time and money, you can do anything. "we" chose not to.
    2013 Audi S8

  4. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreggPDX View Post
    the only turbos that are true bolt-on are the "hybrid turbos" available from multiple sources. All of these are essentially stock turbos where the compressor housing is machined to accept a bigger wheel. Nothing is done to the turbine housing, but sometimes the turbine wheels will be clipped to increase flow. The SRM and TTE units fall into this category. There are several other companies that will do the same (Blouch, Scroll, etc...)
    Obviously, the first limit is the 5HP24 transmission. Pushing the stock turbos a bit more, we saw 730 lb ft at the crank on the dyno with a so-so tune on pump gas.
    If the transmission limitation is taken car of (or simply ignore), then hybrid turbos should provide enough power to max out the stock block.
    While standard hybrid turbos in deed often only upgrade the compressor ("machined out, larger wheel"), we have also addressed the flow restriction on the hot side. We are using a less restrictive, higher flowing turbine wheel in conjunction with a big (similar to GT2867) billet, extended tip compressor housing/wheel.

    Wondering what power is made with 2871 or Tial 880 (and what trannies are use; even the 01E has its limits, or?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by vtraudt View Post
    Obviously, the first limit is the 5HP24 transmission. Pushing the stock turbos a bit more, we saw 730 lb ft at the crank on the dyno with a so-so tune on pump gas.
    If the transmission limitation is taken car of (or simply ignore), then hybrid turbos should provide enough power to max out the stock block.
    While standard hybrid turbos in deed often only upgrade the compressor ("machined out, larger wheel"), we have also addressed the flow restriction on the hot side. We are using a less restrictive, higher flowing turbine wheel in conjunction with a big (similar to GT2867) billet, extended tip compressor housing/wheel.

    Wondering what power is made with 2871 or Tial 880 (and what trannies are use; even the 01E has its limits, or?)
    Interesting.

    Well I will be pushing the limits if the stick turbos. I'm working with Steve Ken on the swap and nubcake on the tune. When it's all said and done it will have an aeromotive 340 in tank, 044 inline, 750cc injectors and e85. After I see what that does I will look into running the gt2871s.

    At this point I just want to drive the car again lol the auto is basically dead and it's no fun anymore

  6. #24
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    What is the commonly assumed (no one know, no exact science) limit for the stock block as far as torque goes (torque breaks rods, not HP)?

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    Good for at least 1000-1100 newtons.
    With big turbos and that torque carried over - should be able to see 700-800hp easily.

  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by nubcake View Post
    Good for at least 1000-1100 newtons.
    With big turbos and that torque carried over - should be able to see 700-800hp easily.
    I was (just for kicks) once doing the math. Using the often cited "tranny is good for 600 lbft" figured I mod the engine (upgraded turbos, fueling, breathing, maybe some WM for octane) and tune to just 'hold that torque' to say 7200 rpm. Voila: 822 HP.

    Ditto using the 550 awTQ = 735 lbft from the (poorly tuned) dyno run we had: 1k HP
    Now, just have to put that into the real world. Would make a nice Grand Touring car.

  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by vtraudt View Post
    Obviously, the first limit is the 5HP24 transmission. Pushing the stock turbos a bit more, we saw 730 lb ft at the crank on the dyno with a so-so tune on pump gas.
    If the transmission limitation is taken car of (or simply ignore), then hybrid turbos should provide enough power to max out the stock block.
    While standard hybrid turbos in deed often only upgrade the compressor ("machined out, larger wheel"), we have also addressed the flow restriction on the hot side. We are using a less restrictive, higher flowing turbine wheel in conjunction with a big (similar to GT2867) billet, extended tip compressor housing/wheel.

    Wondering what power is made with 2871 or Tial 880 (and what trannies are use; even the 01E has its limits, or?)
    Can you elaborate a bit on the turbo you're using? You say you are using a less restrictive turbine wheel, does that mean "clipped"? What else have you done on the turbine side to help flow?

    I was reading a bit about The Turbo Engineers TTE780 which uses an RS6 hotside that is machined to take a larger turbine wheel. They only sell that turbo paired with a modified RS4 cold side, so still not a bolt-on for us.

  10. #28
    Registered User ttboost's Avatar
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    IMO, the stock RS6 turbine housing is too small no matter what you do to it, or in it...even if you get it to make some power, it won't last and will plummet...quickly...
    2013 Audi S8

  11. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreggPDX View Post
    Can you elaborate a bit on the turbo you're using? You say you are using a less restrictive turbine wheel, does that mean "clipped"? What else have you done on the turbine side to help flow?
    The turbo we installed on the RS6 (currently in winter storage, to be tuned in April) has slightly larger diameter and less blades, in a slightly enlarged OEM turbin housing. The compressor is a larger, extended tip billet compressor wheel. Given the transmission limitations, I don't think the turbo will be maxed about. We are not planning to run more that (stock MAP limit) 22 psi boost. We would be very pleased to run run 20 psi to a higher redline (but we had issue when tuning this car with Daz back with stock turbos to get rpm threshold (TCU or ECU) raised IIRC. We were running 18 psi at 6250 at 75% duty cycle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vtraudt View Post
    Given the transmission limitations, I don't think the turbo will be maxed about. We are not planning to run more that (stock MAP limit) 22 psi boost. We would be very pleased to run run 20 psi to a higher redline (but we had issue when tuning this car with Daz back with stock turbos to get rpm threshold (TCU or ECU) raised IIRC. We were running 18 psi at 6250 at 75% duty cycle.
    No! That's exactly the problem with RS6 hybrids! They don't allow enough flow through the hotside.
    Therefore, you don't need raised redline, since by the time you get there - yes, you're making boost, but not power. It's getting eaten by enormous backpressure and general lack of flow. You will actually get more power by aggressively tapering that boost while ramping up ignition advance. One of "hybridized" RS6s I've seen was peaking 620ish horses at ~4500 RPM (!), but at redline it was down to 450! Obviously, this is example of a particularly badly tuned car, but the actual challenge of carrying over the power is really there.

  13. #31
    Registered User ttboost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nubcake View Post
    No! That's exactly the problem with RS6 hybrids! They don't allow enough flow through the hotside.
    Therefore, you don't need raised redline, since by the time you get there - yes, you're making boost, but not power. It's getting eaten by enormous backpressure and general lack of flow. You will actually get more power by aggressively tapering that boost while ramping up ignition advance. One of "hybridized" RS6s I've seen was peaking 620ish horses at ~4500 RPM (!), but at redline it was down to 450! Obviously, this is example of a particularly badly tuned car, but the actual challenge of carrying over the power is really there.
    Exactly. You'll spike a great number on the Dyno, then it will dive like mad. Mine made almost 650ft/lbs at 4200, and I was at 400 by 6k.
    2013 Audi S8

  14. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttboost View Post
    As has been said...it will be a tough and expensive road... and you "likely" won't hit your goal, whatever that may be. Along with turbos, you need intercoolers and piping, all of which is an engineering marvel/nightmare in this car. Most of "us" that have started this "project", bailed because "we" determined that it will be a tremendous amount of time and money (lost time and money, if you care about that) to dump into a 15yr old car, and realized there are better and easier cars to mod, with greater results.

    My tuned 6sp RS6 made ~480awhp and ~560awtq, with stock turbos, and could "only" muster a 4.2-4.0 0-60 on it's best day. My 2013 S8 runs consistent 3.5's bone stock. Understandably, a huge price comparison with regard to price of entry, but at the end of the day, I determined I would rather spend the money here than there.
    Good luck on your travels. With enough time and money, you can do anything. "we" chose not to.
    The MTM and Sportec cars were in the 3.5-3.7 range. As long as you dont go crazy with the brembos as the 20 inch cast wheels....

    My testing would support that.. .... I would say that in an average everyday drive, my MTM is everybit as fast as my 2016 Porsche Panamera Turbo S, at least to 120...

    But the MTM has:

    Different intake runners
    Different Head gastket
    Different Turbos
    Different Headers and exhaust
    Different TCU
    Programmable ECU

    Im sure I am missing something...in 2003 the bill was over $40K at Joe Hoppens....

    But it is reliable and repeatable power...and is an absolute blast to drive....

  15. #33
    Registered User ttboost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephencl View Post
    The MTM and Sportec cars were in the 3.5-3.7 range. As long as you dont go crazy with the brembos as the 20 inch cast wheels....

    My testing would support that.. .... I would say that in an average everyday drive, my MTM is everybit as fast as my 2016 Porsche Panamera Turbo S, at least to 120...

    But the MTM has:

    Different intake runners
    Different Head gastket
    Different Turbos
    Different Headers and exhaust
    Different TCU
    Programmable ECU

    Im sure I am missing something...in 2003 the bill was over $40K at Joe Hoppens....

    But it is reliable and repeatable power...and is an absolute blast to drive....
    Acknowledged. My point was and is, even if you could do it for half now...$20k, you're still dumping $20k into a 15yr old car, worth $12k-$15k, ...I elected not to...For that same money, I have 10 times the technology...which I prefer...but to each his own...for what it's worth, I love seeing these older cars on the road...
    2013 Audi S8

  16. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttboost View Post
    Acknowledged. My point was and is, even if you could do it for half now...$20k, you're still dumping $20k into a 15yr old car, worth $12k-$15k, ...I elected not to...For that same money, I have 10 times the technology...which I prefer...but to each his own...for what it's worth, I love seeing these older cars on the road...
    Best bang for buck still seems to be an aggressive stage 2 tune on stock turbo (downpipe). Or an upgraded turbo, injectors. Figure your $12k car and say $8k upgrades for total $20 invested, I cannot find a similar (4 door luxury Grand Tourer) car in that power and performance range.

  17. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttboost View Post
    Exactly. You'll spike a great number on the Dyno, then it will dive like mad. Mine made almost 650ft/lbs at 4200, and I was at 400 by 6k.
    Same or similar here. Hit a wall at 6k.
    Now trying a higher flowing turbine wheel.

  18. #36
    Registered User ttboost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vtraudt View Post
    Same or similar here. Hit a wall at 6k.
    Now trying a higher flowing turbine wheel.
    Yep, factory manifolds and turbines just. don't. flow. enough.
    2013 Audi S8

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