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Thread: Who Has a Better ECU Upgrade APR, MTM, REVO or other?

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    Who Has a Better ECU Upgrade APR, MTM, REVO or other?

    I was wondering who you guys think has the best ECU upgrade for the RS6 C5? I went with a Revo Stage 1 tune in my last RS 6 but before I go with them again I figured I should get some of your feedback on a couple others as well before I pull the trigger and tune my new RS 6. So any feedback about these companies or any other would greatly appreciated.

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    My opinion is that any off-the-shelf branded tune will never be as good as a custom one made for your specific car.
    But I'm biased as I'm a tuner myself.

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    I've heard very little about custom tunes but from what you know about the ones off the shelf what would you say the biggest differencs are between the two types? Also do you know what types of numbers are possible for my car with a custom tune? Thanks

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    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Custom tuner will fine tune after you log data on road or dyno, each car is different. I've custom tuned both my WRX and the RS6 now with notable improvements over the stock tune. You will want RossTech VCDS if doing your own logging.

    Anyhow, don't recommend Revo, it was on my car when bought, runs lean and hot, needs extra software to work well. If you're decent with RossTech I can send files and info over.

    APR, too spendy, not that great, not much support. MTM really not available.

    Eurocharged is an option. Where's your location? Both AMD in WA and EPL in CT have greats reps as tuning shops. 034 seems to have a decent tune now also.
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

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    I'm not familiar with RossTech and agree that APR is to spendy. I heard from someone else that Revo runs lean and hot so must be a common issue although I personally don't know what that does to performance numbers. I assumed that Revo was a really good one cause in last months Audi magazine they were used even by Milltek on there RS7 Demo car. I live in Minnesota and believe there are a couple places out here that do custom tunes and had been at there shops for dyno runs with my BMW X5 M. I had never heard of anyone using 034 but just saw them come up when searching for tunes. Have you heard of anyone that has used them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GmbH1 View Post
    I've heard very little about custom tunes but from what you know about the ones off the shelf what would you say the biggest differencs are between the two types? Also do you know what types of numbers are possible for my car with a custom tune? Thanks
    You run out of injectors at around 540-550ish, then out of turbos at 570-580ish.
    From there on it quickly gets increasingly expensive.

    Can't offer any opinion about off-the-shelf tunes as I didn't really dissect them (apart from MTM one, but that's pretty much irrelevant as it's NLA).
    And yea, generally the main difference is that off-the-shelf tune is usually made for the wide spectrum of cars out there, while custom one will be tailored for your specific car.

    Obviously, depending on the competence of the tuner you choose, you can get some really bad things inside (holds true for both off-the-shelf and custom).
    For example, couple of very common "bad practices" are:
    - not really turning off diagnosis of missing hardware (emissions related, usually), but just suppressing the display of DTCs.
    - raising or even completely removing safety related mechanisms in the tune (overboost protection, knock control, etc) - this is also known as "italian tuning".
    This can even sometimes make your car slightly faster than the "elegantly" tuned one, but the price for that is too high: longevity of components can be dramatically reduced.

    I personally prefer to leave all the safety mechanisms in place and just alter some of them if absolutely necessary.

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    Thanks for the feedback nubcake

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    Registered User papadoc's Avatar
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    I have the 034 tune on second RS6, and I find it definitely better than the APR tune I had on the first car. They have tweaked their original tune a bit, which was made for a customer that was unhappy with the tune he had from another source, and it has performed well. There is another thread here where someone had an issue with their ECU/TCU combination, but it is not clear if that was before their recent upgrade to the tune. The price is very reasonable and you can flash it yourself. They are close to me here in the Bay Area, and locally have a very good reputation. If you call them, ask to speak with Adil Ali, good guy and he will give you the specifics.
    First RS6 totaled at 142K. Now donor for S6 Avant project. Daily driver: Sepang Blue 2016 S6. Black optics, sport package. #2 Black on Black, Level 10 and Koni, Eclipse Nav + Sirius, 034 Motorsports ECU and TCU tune.

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    Registered User BoiseAudi's Avatar
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    Don't mean to hijack however if Injectors and Turbos are the issue with getting past 550hp range what is stopping people from replacing those? What else is required to do that?

    Quote Originally Posted by nubcake View Post
    You run out of injectors at around 540-550ish, then out of turbos at 570-580ish.
    From there on it quickly gets increasingly expensive.

    Can't offer any opinion about off-the-shelf tunes as I didn't really dissect them (apart from MTM one, but that's pretty much irrelevant as it's NLA).
    And yea, generally the main difference is that off-the-shelf tune is usually made for the wide spectrum of cars out there, while custom one will be tailored for your specific car.

    Obviously, depending on the competence of the tuner you choose, you can get some really bad things inside (holds true for both off-the-shelf and custom).
    For example, couple of very common "bad practices" are:
    - not really turning off diagnosis of missing hardware (emissions related, usually), but just suppressing the display of DTCs.
    - raising or even completely removing safety related mechanisms in the tune (overboost protection, knock control, etc) - this is also known as "italian tuning".
    This can even sometimes make your car slightly faster than the "elegantly" tuned one, but the price for that is too high: longevity of components can be dramatically reduced.

    I personally prefer to leave all the safety mechanisms in place and just alter some of them if absolutely necessary.
    03 RS6 Misano Red / Ebony - #905040 - In for the shit show

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    Registered User Cmnair's Avatar
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    Hmmm .... my car came with an APR tune and I have not had any issues with it. What makes it "not that great"? Is it just not good value for money or is it just conservative compared to other tunes. Also they don't offer it any more.
    2003 Audi RS6 Daytona/Silver, 2012 Porsche 911 Turbo S, 2016 Golf R 6 MT, 2018 Porsche Macan GTS

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoiseAudi View Post
    Don't mean to hijack however if Injectors and Turbos are the issue with getting past 550hp range what is stopping people from replacing those? What else is required to do that?
    For 550+ you gonna need injectors, possibly fuel pump and intercoolers.
    For 580+ add hybrid turbos or stiffer wastegate springs at the very least.
    For 650+ you gonna need custom full-frame turbos and custom manifolds ($$$). I know a couple of guys who are experimenting with getting GT28RS's in there with stock manifolds, but no real results for now.
    Bigger MAP, MAFs, DVs, stronger gearbox, etc.
    Highly modded software is needed for any non-stock turbo, if you intend to run past 1.5 bar of boost.
    Add WMI kit to any "stage" for safety. Won't get much extra power out of it due to being limited by turbos mostly, though.

    Stock internals are good for at least ~1.8 peak.

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    Registered User BoiseAudi's Avatar
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    Thank you, We have a few guys here locally are running 2.7s with more then 550 hp. I understand a lot more parts are built and R&D put into those vehicles due to their availability. Just curious what our limitations are with our motor.
    03 RS6 Misano Red / Ebony - #905040 - In for the shit show

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    Registered User Aronis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nubcake View Post
    For 550+ you gonna need injectors, possibly fuel pump and intercoolers.
    For 580+ add hybrid turbos or stiffer wastegate springs at the very least.
    For 650+ you gonna need custom full-frame turbos and custom manifolds ($$$). I know a couple of guys who are experimenting with getting GT28RS's in there with stock manifolds, but no real results for now.
    Bigger MAP, MAFs, DVs, stronger gearbox, etc.
    Highly modded software is needed for any non-stock turbo, if you intend to run past 1.5 bar of boost.
    Add WMI kit to any "stage" for safety. Won't get much extra power out of it due to being limited by turbos mostly, though.

    Stock internals are good for at least ~1.8 peak.
    Or just bite the bullet and buy an S8 Plus or RS7 Performance with that pesky warrantee.
    '18 BMW M5, '19 Porsche Boxster GTS
    (prior '94 325is, '97 M3, '00 A6 4.2,'03 RS6,'08 A4 Cab,'13 A8L,'15 Q7,'16 BMW M2,

  14. #14
    Registered User BoiseAudi's Avatar
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    I had the option of going that route. Preferred having a unique Audi. Am honestly frustrated to see guys with a 2.7 that can walk on me because of the options readily available for that setup.
    03 RS6 Misano Red / Ebony - #905040 - In for the shit show

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    Registered User Bigglezworth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoiseAudi View Post
    Don't mean to hijack however if Injectors and Turbos are the issue with getting past 550hp range what is stopping people from replacing those? What else is required to do that?
    The chassis isn't well designed to support a different configuration. The location of the turbos makes for space problems and that is why 99.9% of owners have an OEM style of set-up. The C7 versions have their turbos in an improved location IMO so you can play more readily. I'm sure as the price of these cars gets lesser and lesser, more people will start 'playing' with them.
    '02 S6 Avant Silver - Pokey | Carbon Black/Ebony RS6 w/ stuff - darn quick | '03 Daytona Grey/Ebony RS6 w/ more stuff - quicker yet | '91 NSX CDN issue with 6spd & BBSC - quicker yet and then some | '87 Buick GNX OEM clone w/ lots of stuff - quickest hands down

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    I am not sure on any of the common ECU upgrade companies such as REVO and APR. I had a few car with ECU upgrades with REVO but not with this beast. Locally, we have a tuner shop here in WA that have their own ECU upgrade and i heard good things about it, and they only work on RS cars, from ECU tuning to full upgrades with turbos,6 speed manual upgrades etc... thinking on going that route myself. 034 motorsports is also recommended as well from what i heard. I use them a lot for parts on my own project car as well.

  17. #17
    Registered User mrdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoiseAudi View Post
    ust curious what our limitations are with our motor.
    Space, mostly. This should give you an idea: http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/31...l=1#post270901

  18. #18
    Registered User BoiseAudi's Avatar
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    BINGO~ This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you. Now it all is coming together and making sense.
    03 RS6 Misano Red / Ebony - #905040 - In for the shit show

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