"New" C5 RS6 Owner

[Knowa]

Hey guys,

Just an update, and some off topic fun we having, my brother and I are starting to plan a turbo to his golf Mk4 V6 4 Motion, should be a great project.

The RS6 is in the shop for the Cam Belt, Cam Chains, water pump, seals, cam case seals, Tensioners, Radiator (was leaking)


This is the golf



Not sure if this is something that I can have a running thread here for... not an RS6, but I'm sure will keep up once done...

[Other_Erik]

Being in the middle east, are you running any extra aux coolers and/or upgraded IC's? Heat kills, you know! Maybe consider a vented hood?

I don't know how the heck I missed this conversation earlier this year, but let's get it back on track

As long as you have it in the shop, now's the time to pull the headers and exhaust, get them bead shot and ceramic coated, then Ti-impregnated exhaust wrap on top. Trap the heat and kick it out of the engine bay! Wrap up those snails in a turbo blanket and see if you don't have a 15C drop in engine bay temp... I see blue (Venair?) IC hose, so I'm sure you've already checked the lower IC hose for oil from turbo bypass, right?

Welcome aboard the crazy train!

[Knowa]

Hi Erik,

Im actually glad you commented with what you are saying... Yes, heat KILLS! the over bearing heat of summer is only about 4 months of the year and during that time I probably wont use the car much at all until I have dealt with the heat. considering the car has been to MTM and is boosting slightly more, im more worried about the heat. I emailed MTM and spoke to them about it, they say the car will not get hurt. Boost is set to 1,17 Bar. Does anyone know what kind of power figures that equates to?

and all that you are saying is so brilliant, if i had just brought it up earlier, as its about to come out of the shop!!! although I will start collecting all I need to wrap it all up. that engine bay is tight.

what I was going to do is remove the stock oil cooler as the oil temp really suffers in the heat, if you enjoying some boost and then get caught by traffic, there is no airflow over the oil cooler. so I would like to get either 2 medium oil coolers or 1 larger oil cooler, but with a thin fan with a heat switch set to 85 degrees C.

with regards to the Hood, im hoping someone can tell me just how realistic it is to make my own Carbon Hood. I have looked at a company in the UK that distribute all the components required, and have rather comprehensive video's explaining the process, but you cant help thinking that he has done it a million times, and knows what he is doing... so as a total Noob, can I do that? I dont want to have to make 4 hoods before I get it right, fiber is costly.

Yip, I checked the coolers out... there was that..."please don't give me any signs that could lead to the possible need to drop this motor" and thankfully... nothing! I have also recently checked for smoking from exhaust, i was expecting to at least see fluff considering its not stock, but it doesn't smoke black or white at all.

[Knowa]

Another note regarding the heat.

I am looking into getting a water/Meth Kit... any advise on that?

When we turbo charge the golf, we want to have a HUGE focus on the heat issues. We are planning on boosting low. in the region of 0.5 Bar / 7.5 Psi

doing minimal work in the process. the plan in short is:

-T4 Garrett Turbo (ordered today) AR .60
-Turbo Ehaust manifold
-Short running Upper intake manifold
-Compression ratio from 10.5:1 taken down to 9:1 using a thick steel head gasket
-slightly oversized injectors
-large front mount intercooler

And then the issue of cooling... the thought is to run a standalone oil system for the turbo and not tap into the block. run 2 electric oil pumps in parallel to ensure a high flow rate to the turbo, have a 1.5L tank. the oil will flow through the turbo, and on its return to the tank, through 2 front mount oil coolers with fans. To create stability in the temperature of the oil, the engines water, on route to the radiator will flow through the oil tank, basically a steel tube that runs straight through the tank. so if the oil gets to cold, it is heated, and if it gets to hot, it is cooled.

I am really against tapping into the motors oil system, and want to avoid it if i can.

thoughts?

[lswing]

I'll add a few notes on general items since you have the engine bay open.

Do the plastic oil cooler pipe upgrade to the metal Bufkin pipe (link below). Also, you can save $1,500 by just doing the cam adjuster pads, assuming your cam adjusters are fine. Try and find any hoses or lines that need to be replaced from cracking. Search for the Fluid Motion oil and trans cooler mod. They basically did a custom job, increased the size but used same mounting location. Adding water/meth would help you keep performance in the hot weather, preventing some heat soak, and just keeps things running cooler.

There are a few hood mods, search for the headshot mod. There are a few threads on the best locations to cut into a stock hood, no need to go carbon. Use site:rs6.com added to your Google search, don't bother with the search function on here.

http://audirssix.com/index.php/overview/maintenance

[Other_Erik]

Hi Erik,

Im actually glad you commented with what you are saying... Yes, heat KILLS! the over bearing heat of summer is only about 4 months of the year and during that time I probably wont use the car much at all until I have dealt with the heat. considering the car has been to MTM and is boosting slightly more, im more worried about the heat. I emailed MTM and spoke to them about it, they say the car will not get hurt. Boost is set to 1,17 Bar. Does anyone know what kind of power figures that equates to?

and all that you are saying is so brilliant, if i had just brought it up earlier, as its about to come out of the shop!!! although I will start collecting all I need to wrap it all up. that engine bay is tight.

what I was going to do is remove the stock oil cooler as the oil temp really suffers in the heat, of you enjoying some boost and then get caught by traffic, there is no airflow over the oil cooler. so I would like to get either 2 medium oil coolers or 1 larger oil cooler, but with a thin fan with a heat which set to 85 degrees C.

with regards to the Hood, im hoping someone can tell me just how realistic it is to make my own Carbon Hood. I have looked at a company in the UK that distribute all the components required, and have rather comprehensive video's explaining the process, but you cant help thinking that he has done it a million times, and knows what he is doing... so as a total Noob, can I do that? I dont want to have to make 4 hoods before I get it right, fiber is costly.

Yip, I checked the coolers out... there was that..."please don't give me any signs that could lead to the possible need to drop this motor" and thankfully... nothing! I have also recently checked for smoking from exhaust, i was expecting to at least see fluff considering its not stock, but it doesn't smoke black or white at all.

Glad to hear she's running good for you!

1.17Bar = ~16.4PSI, depending what they've done with timing that can be anywhere from 490-530ish peak HP, and I bet they've bumped the power band a bit to look more like a plateau than a hill...

I like the thought of a ventilated oil cooler, but I don't know where you might be able to fit it, especially if you've got the splash guard under the engine bay. Have you looked into the splash guard vent mod (cutting a channel across the splash guard and fitting with angle aluminum to keep debris out)? Not sure that'd help overly much, but every little bit, you know? Not to mention the stock oil cooler is a good 9 hours labor to R&R when folks go to the Bufkin pipe.

I don't personally have experience putting together CF hoods, but I bet OCarbon would be happy to talk to you about the project - just going to be months of waiting and ridiculous shipping to get it to Qatar. On the plus side, coming from Matt at OCarbon, the fit and finish will be PERFECT. The whole months of waiting will mostly be waiting for him to shape and reshape the same hood to get it absolutely correct right down to the micron - to say he's a perfectionist is an understatement. I wouldn't recommend making your own hood as a first-timer project, too many complex curves and angles, and you still have to worry about keeping it shut when it's down, so you're likely also looking at adding reinforcement and hood pins, and from what I understand those may be against the law where you're at (as well as a couple places in the US). There are some brave souls here who have vented their own hoods and have templates/directions readily available.

WRT the headers and exhaust - depending how well they were taken care of in Germany, you will probably want to have them bead blasted to remove surface rust, then sandscrubbed to give the ceramic some texture to adhere to. Won't be an easy, quick, or cheap process, but anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT.

Next logical steps in my mind would be water or water/meth sprayers to hot components. Would be a VERY interesting side-project to put together a plumbing system that brings interior-temperature water to spray individual coolers as they get above normal operating range, would just have to figure out where to store all that water / an easy way to refill it, as I'll bet you will drain the tank pretty quickly.

O_E

[Other_Erik]

So in the time it took to type that long reply, and doing some stuff at work, you replied back.

On water and/or water/meth, there are so many kits it's nuts. Folks here have had good luck with Devil'sOwn Alky kit, nozzles mounted in the Y-pipe. I'm not familiar with any brands, but given your heat issues in the middle east would go for the best you can find, and plumb to oil cooler, both IC's (you have upgraded to Wagner IC's, right? You should.), and the trans fluid cooler (assuming you have the hot weather package, that's on the Left/Driver side of the radiator)

Speaking of which... if you don't have the hot weather package, trans fluid cooler should absolutely be #1 on the list. Heat kills, and heat kills transmissions faster, especially the one in the RS (which is already the weak link to begin with).

O_E

[Knowa]

So in the time it took to type that long reply, and doing some stuff at work, you replied back.

On water and/or water/meth, there are so many kits it's nuts. Folks here have had good luck with Devil'sOwn Alky kit, nozzles mounted in the Y-pipe. I'm not familiar with any brands, but given your heat issues in the middle east would go for the best you can find, and plumb to oil cooler, both IC's (you have upgraded to Wagner IC's, right? You should.), and the trans fluid cooler (assuming you have the hot weather package, that's on the Left/Driver side of the radiator)

Speaking of which... if you don't have the hot weather package, trans fluid cooler should absolutely be #1 on the list. Heat kills, and heat kills transmissions faster, especially the one in the RS (which is already the weak link to begin with).

O_E

If i was to have a guess, I would say I don't have the hot weather package. simply because the previous owner bought it in Germany as a used car and then shipped it here, and there is no good reason to have that package there. Im not 100% sure though, but i will assume the worse until I can be sure. If if is not the hot weather package, do the Trans have the connection points to install a cooler?

This conversation has resulted in the car being grounded until counter measures are in place. Ill order a devils own kit tonight. I saw they have a kit that doesn't have a control box, but rather a boost activated switch. would that work or best to get the kit with the controller?

as for the oil coolers and space issues, ill try be at the garage when they putting it back together, and try see if/where there is space, and how much of it. then see if i can find an oil cooler to match that size.

I honestly don't know if I have the stock coolers or not. what is the easiest way to tell?

[Knowa]

Glad to hear she's running good for you!

1.17Bar = ~16.4PSI, depending what they've done with timing that can be anywhere from 490-530ish peak HP, and I bet they've bumped the power band a bit to look more like a plateau than a hill...

I like the thought of a ventilated oil cooler, but I don't know where you might be able to fit it, especially if you've got the splash guard under the engine bay. Have you looked into the splash guard vent mod (cutting a channel across the splash guard and fitting with angle aluminum to keep debris out)? Not sure that'd help overly much, but every little bit, you know? Not to mention the stock oil cooler is a good 9 hours labor to R&R when folks go to the Bufkin pipe.

I don't personally have experience putting together CF hoods, but I bet OCarbon would be happy to talk to you about the project - just going to be months of waiting and ridiculous shipping to get it to Qatar. On the plus side, coming from Matt at OCarbon, the fit and finish will be PERFECT. The whole months of waiting will mostly be waiting for him to shape and reshape the same hood to get it absolutely correct right down to the micron - to say he's a perfectionist is an understatement. I wouldn't recommend making your own hood as a first-timer project, too many complex curves and angles, and you still have to worry about keeping it shut when it's down, so you're likely also looking at adding reinforcement and hood pins, and from what I understand those may be against the law where you're at (as well as a couple places in the US). There are some brave souls here who have vented their own hoods and have templates/directions readily available.

WRT the headers and exhaust - depending how well they were taken care of in Germany, you will probably want to have them bead blasted to remove surface rust, then sandscrubbed to give the ceramic some texture to adhere to. Won't be an easy, quick, or cheap process, but anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT.

Next logical steps in my mind would be water or water/meth sprayers to hot components. Would be a VERY interesting side-project to put together a plumbing system that brings interior-temperature water to spray individual coolers as they get above normal operating range, would just have to figure out where to store all that water / an easy way to refill it, as I'll bet you will drain the tank pretty quickly.

O_E

The power is very consistent, throughout the rev range, it actually has a really nice strong pull and you can feel the torque, although you can feel that the car suffers due to its own weight. I would be so keen to know how it would go if 500 KG could be stripped away.

Importing a radiator required 4 miracles and the sacrifice of a lamb... just about. I think a hood that size would be near impossible. But I will look into it. Maybe what I can do it make a "How to make a CF hood for total Noobs" video... if i get it right i would have to buy myself a beer.

Sprayers for the coolers and oil cooler is a really interesting idea, and I don't mind having to full a bottle often, if it means I'm fighting the heat. tied with water/meth injection it could mean a drastic change in heat soak in the engine bay.

[Other_Erik]

If i was to have a guess, I would say I don't have the hot weather package. simply because the previous owner bought it in Germany as a used car and then shipped it here, and there is no good reason to have that package there. Im not 100% sure though, but i will assume the worse until I can be sure. If if is not the hot weather package, do the Trans have the connection points to install a cooler?

This conversation has resulted in the car being grounded until counter measures are in place. Ill order a devils own kit tonight. I saw they have a kit that doesn't have a control box, but rather a boost activated switch. would that work or best to get the kit with the controller?

as for the oil coolers and space issues, ill try be at the garage when they putting it back together, and try see if/where there is space, and how much of it. then see if i can find an oil cooler to match that size.

I honestly don't know if I have the stock coolers or not. what is the easiest way to tell?

Hot weather package was optional for Euro delivery. Check the driver side of the radiator, there should be a smaller input hose on top, and output on bottom that skip right past the engine and keep going back into the transmission. Another (easier) way of telling is by starting the car, not moving anywhere, just let it run for a while, then shut it off and compare temperature of the passenger vs driver side of the radiator - If there's a noticeable difference, you at least have the transmission cooler, whether it's hooked up or not is the next quandary. Another way to tell since the shop hasn't put everything back together yet, is to look at the back of the intercoolers - if there's an auxiliary radiator there... crap, I've forgotten what that's for. Is it a secondary oil cooler for turbo lines oil? Having an early-onset alzheimers moment here, sorry.

I don't have immediate experience with W/M Alky kits - others here do, search for recent threads with "Alky" in the content.

One last thought in all of this - maybe you can utilize the space taken up by the useless Secondary Air Pump in the passenger side of the engine bay? remove pump, loop vac line to itself, code out SAI Flow, and you've just bought yourself about a half a cubic foot of room...

[lswing]

Get this...has adjustable boost control and on indicator. I run a 2.5 Gallon trunk mount tank. Also order a splitter and two DO5 nozzles, install on Y-pipe 6-8 inches from intake. There is a recent thread going over install. OE, I've thought about spraying water onto/into other areas that get hot, just never got around to another setup. I'm sure with a trunk mount tank like mine that is super easy to fill you would be set for weeks.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/...-stage-2a.html

Here are the details on my setup. http://audirssix.com/index.php/owning/water-methanol

[Knowa]

Thanks Guys!

I'm seeing the car tonight, so will have a look.
That kit looks awesome, ill see if I can get it delivered to where I am. sometimes it feels like im on the moon when it comes to postage and shipping.

now... the car is old, fact... so in your professional opinions... what should I be looking at changing, servicing, checking, etc?

I am getting the prop shaft done, need someone to confirm what the workshop is saying, they have surplus of Porsche parts, and will give me a cheaper price if I take Porsche parts for that. I am not sure if its a full new Prop Shaft, or just the bearings, or what... but is that even possible? are the parts cross compatible?

[Knowa]

and it needs to be said... the C5 RS6 looks so much better than the C6... I will admit that the idea of a twin turbo V10 is just awesome. but it looks like if it were a human, it would be worried about how its hair looked, if its closed matched, and very in touch with its feelings... the C5 looks like it doesnt care about the planet, and keeps a proud record of its contributions to global warming.

[mik15]

in regards to the heat, it is a pain for the C5 in this climate during the summer and even in the winter where here it doesn't drop below 20C unlike Europe, however driving it without abuse during the 45C days will do ok.

send me if you want the VIN# and i can help you with the list of extras as the car came from factory, but most likely being a German spec it does not have the hot weather package which included the 2 extra cooling radiators behind the intercoolers, i think here they do make a bit of a difference. I had no issues whatsoever with my former 2 x RS6 C5, both being GCC spec therefore hot climate package, but then again during summer i wouldn't push them hard at all, however the AC system is not doing well at all during traffic jams or very hot humid days, it struggles to keep up.

Definitely some hood vents would help dissipate that enormous amount of heat the engine produces and during summer i always leave the hood opened when i get home or at the office so the engine bay cools down a lot faster to avoid a bit aging up the engine bay components by letting the heat out.

The C6 on the other hand handles super well this weather, the cooling system is just top notch, got stuck a few times in rush our traffic in mid day with 45C outside and the AC system is just incredible and the car didn't feel sluggish after a 1 hour jam, oil T didn't go over 103-104C and while cruising on the highway it usually sits around 97C.

[Knowa]

I am very seriously thinking of just benching the RS during summer, I have a second car so it can just get a car cover, and sit this season out. rather not lead to any damage, or side of the road issues. you talking about when its 45 degrees C and the cars you had, had the hot weather package. We are passing 50-55 mid day heat out here, with real possibility for stand still traffic. while the car is grounded ill strip the bumper off and see what space I have for extra oil coolers.

I saw you can get really thin fans to put to the front of the radiator, I guess the theory is to help the current fans behind the radiator. Does anyone know if this is worth the effort?

[mik15]

yeah well, 45C is what shows the BC display, and that is in the shade, obviously if you do measure at 3 feet above ground it will be probably be more than 55C . I know my mechanic used to mount 2 thin fans in front on the A8 D2 radiator which did help improving the air flow while in traffic jam. Having the extra radiators also help as it circulates a larger amount of coolant so basically increases the cooling surface per cycle, but nevertheless the main problem remains the lack of airflow and the heat trapped in the engine bay.

[Knowa]

Yes. I need to really vent that engine bay... need to just remove the hood! the issue also is that during traffic, the only thing that has moving air is the main radiator. the Intercoolers, Oil Coolers, Aux radiators are just in stand still air. so having fanned Oil Coolers could be a great help.

Do all RS6 C5's have the vents in the engine bay, on the front of the wheel arch?

[mik15]

they all do have those vents