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Thread: RS6 Cold Air Intake Options

  1. #1
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    RS6 Cold Air Intake Options

    I want to start throwing around ideas on creating different options that we could use to get more air into the engine without trying to come up with one option. I would like to be able to look in one place when I am day dreaming about intakes instead of looking in multiple places.

    As some people will have 450hp then there isn't much reason to look for radical ideas, maybe just something to increase the stock box flow.

    As we move up in HP more radical options come into play.

    With some CAI options including modifications to the hood then a relevant discussion of heat dissipation techniques through hood venting would have a point in this thread.

    I spoke to Terry Griffin at Griffin Motorwerke in Berkeley. He has done some basic upgrades to his RS6. Revo stage 2...I don't care about Revo opinions... diverters, probably some upgraded air filters, high flow cats. He is willing to run the car on the dyno with and without the intake air tubing to the airbox.

    As I am paying 100.00 for this run I would like to know if anyone has any input into the run itself. I figure it is a simple as run with and run without. Then I want him to run with the airbox open from the top. We will make sure there is no heat soak issue but I don't think so with such short amount of runs... I could be wrong. Is there anything that I am thinking wrong about here??

    I might even ask him to put the FMU unit on. I don't know if he wants to do that though.

    I am waiting on a response from EPL to see if they actually have some larger MAF kit.

    I am not actually clear on how relevant this information will be for someone making bigger HP...550+.

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    Is the dyno at his shop? Put good gas in it

    Need vag data log in turbo mode. 3 31 115

    Warm car to operating temps....park it at dyno for 1hr w/hood open....fan on it if poss....take out ducts.

    Perform sneaky ecu reset......key on....gas pedal to floor 5sec........key off.........then release gas pedal. Leave sit 5min.

    Strap it on and make 2 runs.

    Let it cool w fans and put the ducts on..2 more runs.

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    He had it installed over the summer. It is a Mustang. I don't know what model but will find out.

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    I'd be interested to see the data. All these intake options out there and no proof whether or not they improve airflow over the seemingly efficient factory unit. I'm not one of those people who believes that "a German engineer made it, therefore it cannot possibly be improved upon by the aftermarket", but without some numbers to back it up we're basically just guessing.

    We have the following aftermarket options available:

    -Fluid Motor Union
    -Apikol
    -Dahlback Racing
    -Gruppe M ($4,700 for an intake? Get f**ked!)
    -(others?)

    Have any of them been dyno-tested?
    Last edited by Turbowned; January 2nd, 2015 at 18:50.
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    I am going to ask Terry if he would be willing to use his car as a test mule. He seems to be getting quite a few RS6s passing through. It can only increase his business. If people wanted to send the units to him maybe he could put them on his car. He might tell me no way but I will ask.

    Here is his FB page for people who don't know who I am talking about.

    https://www.facebook.com/Griffin.Motorwerke

    Just as an aside Terry has been a F1 photographer for about 15 years and now he is a fully credentialed F1 photograper..... He definitely is an interesting guy...and is as un PC as you get living smack in the middle of PC Berkeley. I love talking to T. He is who hooked me up with Lee Schwartz of Flow Tech in North Carolina.

    PC = Politically Correct

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    I have some ideas after looking over the champion setups. Need to go out in the garage

    Take out the under hood cowl seal and cover
    Take out the 2x2 rubber plug on the cowl divider
    Take out the black accordion connectors to the stock air cleaner.

    Leave the silver ducts

    Post test butt dyno says yes. Logs look good but it pulls smooth thru 2nd and 3rd gears from butt dyno impressions
    Last edited by DHall1; January 4th, 2015 at 22:44.

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    Thread jack = I know Terry. I lived in bay area 7 years in late 90s / early 2000s. I bought / ordered a pair of racing Recaros from him for one of my 951s/944 Turbos. That was prob. 2001/2. I remember when I went to go pick them up he had one of those 60s/70s super multi window VW busses in his shop. A super mint one. Then years later I saw him I think at least twice manning a Recaro display at SEMA. And maybe they had Hella in that same display seems like I might remember?

    It is so cool how so many people keep messing with these low production and now pretty damn old RS6s. Kind of makes me feel lame. I just drive mine lol. And its early VIN 85kish mi.s, all stock except RS4 wheels, just maintained and OEM shock system recall-replaced just before I got it couple years ago from Porsche Club Racing friend / orig. owner who just used it as daily.

    Whenever I think about messing with it I just come on here and read around a little and invariably walk away thinking... ain't broke don't fix it lol

  8. #8
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    ^^^Yea, but it's so slow in stock form Can't resist messing with any car...
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    Registered User 4everRS's Avatar
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    Did you forget your meds again?!?
    Quote Originally Posted by DHall1 View Post
    I have some ideas after looking over the champion setups. Need to go out in the garage
    Quote Originally Posted by DHall1 View Post

    Take out the under hood cowl seal and cover
    Take out the 2x2 rubber plug on the cowl divider
    Take out the black accordion connectors to the stock air cleaner.

    Leave the silver ducts

    Post test butt dyno says yes. Logs look good but it pulls smooth thru 2nd and 3rd gears from butt dyno impressions
    Avus Silver RS6 - Viper Stage 2 ECU/TCU - Water/Meth Injection - Frozen Rotors - Hbars - clear corners - Hella smoked tails - gutted precats

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    Yep, I ran out last week.

    Cowl seal removal allows heat to escape out from under the hood. heat was really escaping from under the rear of the cowl

    Leaving the silver ducts allows cool air to be directed to the open air cleaner housings. But if more volume is needed the open housing has no restriction.

  11. #11
    Registered User Bigglezworth's Avatar
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    I'm not an engineer, but I did okay with physics back in the day. I do believe that there is no restriction in air flow for any portion of the air cleaner assembly. Remember that air can be compressed and does in fact compress as it passes through the runners that lead from the grille to the airbox. Just like a carburator has air venturi's, so do the runners for the airbox. High pressure/low velocity as it passes through the grille area, then low pressure/high velocity as it passes through the silver ducting, and then finally, back to high pressure/lowe velocity as it enters the air box. Misconception that the grey ducts are restricting air. Same volume of air still getting from point A to point B. I have no doubt that the sum of both airbox ducts provides ample CFM to feed a 4.2L engine being pressurized by more than 20psi.

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    '02 S6 Avant Silver - Pokey | Carbon Black/Ebony RS6 w/ stuff - darn quick | '03 Daytona Grey/Ebony RS6 w/ more stuff - quicker yet | '91 NSX CDN issue with 6spd & BBSC - quicker yet and then some | '87 Buick GNX OEM clone w/ lots of stuff - quickest hands down

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    Registered User RS8's Avatar
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    If a restriction in the air flow would not be a problem, why does the cover of the airbox sucked down?
    For the hole inside the air masse meters are more narrow than the 4 " holes you have into the airbox so something obstructs airflow into the air box.
    (And sure it could be the airfilters that is the problem and not the air intake tubes. But I think it's the tubes)


    Moreover, in many racing cars with turbo so put them a restrictor before the turbocharger to reduce down the horsepower and they have greater area both before and after the restrictor,
    So obviously a restrictor will reduce the airflow and hp on a turbo engine.


    A turbo sucks lots of air so any restriction in the flow must be removed to avoid losing hp.



    Del Stator:
    If you do a test and see that the air box cover no longer sucked down when you remove the silver intake air tubing, then try to reduce the size of the holes and see how smal you can go before it is sucked down and the HP goes down. Because then we can calculate if it will work for 1000hp with two fully open 4" holes or not.

    But If it still sucks down even without the air tubings then try to remove the air filters and see what happens.

    You also need hose that is 4 inches internally to replace the intake air tubing's when doing the test so it will not suck hot air from the engine to get the correct hp figures.
    Last edited by RS8; January 5th, 2015 at 16:46.
    RS6 engine, 6spd tdi 01E, upgraded RS6 turbos, custom built exhaust manifolds, A8 intake camshafts, wagners ic's, bigger fuel rails, AN8 fuel line, walbro 450lph fuel pump
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS8 View Post
    ...
    Del Stator:
    If you do a test and see that the air box cover no longer sucked down when you remove the silver intake air tubing, then try also to close one hole completely so you only have one open 4 inch hole into the airbox and see if it is drawn together now and with only 500 hp, for then there the risk that it makes it also at 1000 hp but with both 4" holes open.

    ...
    Do not do this. IIRC, I seem to recall my airbox being divided inside, with each side of the airbox feeding one turbo. If you block one side entirely, you will starve one turbo entirely. This could be bad.

  14. #14
    Registered User RS8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorb View Post
    Do not do this. IIRC, I seem to recall my airbox being divided inside, with each side of the airbox feeding one turbo. If you block one side entirely, you will starve one turbo entirely. This could be bad.
    Are you sure it is divided inside ?
    Is it the case then it will obviously not work, but I do not remember what it looks like inside the airbox.

    EDIT
    Yes I found a picture now an it is divided

    So I have changed my text above now to another test you could try.
    RS6 engine, 6spd tdi 01E, upgraded RS6 turbos, custom built exhaust manifolds, A8 intake camshafts, wagners ic's, bigger fuel rails, AN8 fuel line, walbro 450lph fuel pump
    and EV14 1000cc/95lb fuel injectors in my S8/RS8

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    Cool I like the different ideas for testing..

    I wanted to give a clear picture of how these runs will go as lot of fiddling around might not be happening. When in California I live 6 hours north of Berkeley/Bay Area. So I won't be there when Terry does some dyno runs. I am leaving on Tuesday for Arkansas. I am going to try to buy some property and sell some of mine. Hopefully be moved back by early spring!

    So I am getting Terry to do this stuff for me with his personal car. So lets get some very specific set of runs that don't require extra effort on his part. Let's be efficient with his time and my money...

    Please correct me if I am wrong thinking. The car can be run over a longer period of time. As in do a run and sit for a while so heat soak is not an issue. I was thinking of running the car with the hood open so engine heat won't be much of an issue. There will be a fan blowing across the engine bay. That might not simulate driving issues but it can keep a baseline with engine heat for testing purpose.

    Here are my proposed runs:

    1. Baseline with it all hooked up.
    2. Pull the silver tubes.
    3. Pull the airbox cover . It seems to me to be as open as possible past the MAFs. Problem or not?? Hood open so not much heat.

    I don't see any other reasons to make other runs at this moment. I can try with other configurations maybe at some other time.

    The picture below is with a LS motor but it is the only picture I can find with the airbox open.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    If someone will post a picture with the airbox open on our engine please do as it would be better for obvious reasons. I will replace this one.

  16. #16
    Registered User RS8's Avatar
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    Okay, but make sure they log each test with ME7logger
    and with rpm, Boost, EGT, Ignition, Water temp, Intake temp, knock control for all cylinders and everything else that is good to know, so we can see if there are any differences between each test.

    And that he starts each run from exact same rpm.
    RS6 engine, 6spd tdi 01E, upgraded RS6 turbos, custom built exhaust manifolds, A8 intake camshafts, wagners ic's, bigger fuel rails, AN8 fuel line, walbro 450lph fuel pump
    and EV14 1000cc/95lb fuel injectors in my S8/RS8

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    ME7logger??

  18. #18
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    I doubt he has ME logger. Vagcom will have to do.

    I would do the test as noted below and just remove the connectors between the silver ducts and housings.

    Good luck

    Quote Originally Posted by DHall1 View Post
    Is the dyno at his shop? Put good gas in it

    Need vag data log in turbo mode. 3 31 115

    Warm car to operating temps....park it at dyno for 1hr w/hood open....fan on it if poss....take out ducts.

    Perform sneaky ecu reset......key on....gas pedal to floor 5sec........key off.........then release gas pedal. Leave sit 5min.

    Strap it on and make 2 runs.

    Let it cool w fans and put the ducts on..2 more runs.

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