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Thread: RS6 Cold Air Intake Options

  1. #37
    Registered User Bigglezworth's Avatar
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    There are zero volume problems with the air feed to the turbos in our cars, and zero advantages to a ram air effect on a forced induction car. Keep the incoming air cool and you have a denser charge with more oxygen. More oxygen equals more power. Keep your filters clean, don't use oily cotton filters that foul your MAF sensors, and voila - you're set. The stock air intake does this just fine.
    '02 S6 Avant Silver - Pokey | Carbon Black/Ebony RS6 w/ stuff - darn quick | '03 Daytona Grey/Ebony RS6 w/ more stuff - quicker yet | '91 NSX CDN issue with 6spd & BBSC - quicker yet and then some | '87 Buick GNX OEM clone w/ lots of stuff - quickest hands down

  2. #38
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  3. #39
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    The car I am having tested does have stock turbos. I might come to the same conclusion that ttboost has. But I am going to test for myself.

    I really have little interest in what a stock turbo RS6 does but this is where I am going to start.

    As I am going to be upgrading my turbos to a larger inlet, I will then continue to test on my car.

    There are conversations going on lately about much higher HP RS6s and people having more manual transmission allowing for bigger turbos, it would seem prudent to began documenting what is found.

    ttboost: I would have appreciated you posting your dyno information when you did your testing. Sorry, this is the internet, without dyno charts your testing means nothing to me.

    My next step will be to have the stock airbox put on a flow bench. I can also have the FMU intake tested but I actually more interested in completely building my own from scratch...and by people who build intakes....not from parts found at Lowe's.

  4. #40
    Registered User Bigglezworth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttboost View Post
    Apparently no one has seen the compressor wheel of an RS6 turbocharger...it's about the size of a quarter....
    Small turbine and compressors in dual configuration to enable quick spool-up. Compare the diminutive K04 to the Paxton I have on my NSX and you can quickly see how small the air inlet and outlet is on the KO4's.
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    '02 S6 Avant Silver - Pokey | Carbon Black/Ebony RS6 w/ stuff - darn quick | '03 Daytona Grey/Ebony RS6 w/ more stuff - quicker yet | '91 NSX CDN issue with 6spd & BBSC - quicker yet and then some | '87 Buick GNX OEM clone w/ lots of stuff - quickest hands down

  5. #41
    Registered User hahnmgh63's Avatar
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    It isn't just the size of the inlet & outlet though Bigz it is also the velocity and pressure that have an equal effect on the Volume flowing. Different Turbos spin at different rates so a smaller Turbo at higher RPM can flow the air of a larger Turbo at a slower RPM. Their are advantages and drawbacks to both, heat & lag to name two.
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  6. #42
    Registered User ttboost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Del Stator View Post
    The car I am having tested does have stock turbos. I might come to the same conclusion that ttboost has. But I am going to test for myself.

    I really have little interest in what a stock turbo RS6 does but this is where I am going to start.

    As I am going to be upgrading my turbos to a larger inlet, I will then continue to test on my car.

    There are conversations going on lately about much higher HP RS6s and people having more manual transmission allowing for bigger turbos, it would seem prudent to began documenting what is found.

    ttboost: I would have appreciated you posting your dyno information when you did your testing. Sorry, this is the internet, without dyno charts your testing means nothing to me.

    My next step will be to have the stock airbox put on a flow bench. I can also have the FMU intake tested but I actually more interested in completely building my own from scratch...and by people who build intakes....not from parts found at Lowe's.
    No worries. Dyno's mean nothing to me, they also can be manipulated. And for the record, I am not trying to piss on your parade. I seem to recall posting something a long time ago...probably during the big "FMU Group Buy", way back when, but I could be wrong. I think that FMU thread is a good example of an intake being touted as the next best thing, but no data and ultimately they are being handed around like $10 whores now. I seem to recall seeing 2 or 3 for sale in the last year or two. I enjoy fabricating as much as the next guy and have fabricated more than one turbo system for a car, myself. Doing your own fabricating is where you learn what works and what doesn't. I'll just try to summarize by saying: with stock turbos, you will not find any appreciable gains in power, with anything other than a stock intake. If you gain 2, 3 maybe 5hp, I would be stunned, and amazed. I don't own my car anymore, and it's not because I didn't like it, I actually loved it, but without significant changes, you are very limited to what you have. That being said, I hope you have better luck than I did!!!

  7. #43
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    My plan is to get the most efficient sized turbo with the largest intake that doesn't create too much lag and can hit relatively high boost for these cars.

    I like what Milka did with the intake MAF pipe by enlarging it. I am open to creating an entirely new path from the outside air to air filter to MAFs and then turbo intake inlet. Here was his comments about MAFs.

    Milka,

    "Originally started with the RS6 MAFs but they maxed out at 15psi through the GTX30s. Hence I modified the stock airbox and mounting to accept B5 S4/R32 MAFs. These only added a little bit of extra air and anything around 17psi maxed out the R32 MAFs/sensors. So then went to the following setup with B5 RS4 MAFs. This is the home built intake, I have since added some brackets to hold things in place and painted the silver/grey intake ducts to Matt Black.
    I then had some slight variations in the airflow so decided to change over to the A8 MAFs which are exactly the same as the B5 RS4 except they have flow straighteners on them."

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    I am not really sold on his intake design as I see it here, but I agree with the upsizing of intake tubing.

    I would love for the stock airbox to flow enough air. I would be extremely happy about that. I don't care about redesigning what doesn't need to be. But I am not convinced yet that it can flow 35psi. I am just making up a number but can it???? I don't know...



















  8. #44
    Registered User ttboost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Del Stator View Post
    My plan is to get the most efficient sized turbo with the largest intake that doesn't create too much lag and can hit relatively high boost for these cars.

    I like what Milka did with the intake MAF pipe by enlarging it. I am open to creating an entirely new path from the outside air to air filter to MAFs and then turbo intake inlet. Here was his comments about MAFs.

    Milka,

    "Originally started with the RS6 MAFs but they maxed out at 15psi through the GTX30s. Hence I modified the stock airbox and mounting to accept B5 S4/R32 MAFs. These only added a little bit of extra air and anything around 17psi maxed out the R32 MAFs/sensors. So then went to the following setup with B5 RS4 MAFs. This is the home built intake, I have since added some brackets to hold things in place and painted the silver/grey intake ducts to Matt Black.
    I then had some slight variations in the airflow so decided to change over to the A8 MAFs which are exactly the same as the B5 RS4 except they have flow straighteners on them."

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I am not really sold on his intake design as I see it here, but I agree with the upsizing of intake tubing.

    I would love for the stock airbox to flow enough air. I would be extremely happy about that. I don't care about redesigning what doesn't need to be. But I am not convinced yet that it can flow 35psi. I am just making up a number but can it???? I don't know...


















    Not sure how much you've dug into this engine and stock turbo setup, but if you want bigger turbos, it will likely require headers too. Apologies if you know this, but the stock compressor is SO close to the manifold, modifying the stock turbo is an effort in futility. Machining the stock compressor with a bigger compressor wheel, will only yield hotter air. I've attached a picture of the left side turbo. You can see how close the compressor housing is to the manifold. And the reality is, the turbine side is the REAL bottleneck too. I had BIG intentions with my car, but once I got the engine out and started looking at what needed to be done to get any real power out of this thing...I bailed.

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  9. #45
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    Pretty much everything on my personal car is being modified. That is the reason I am now trying to see what is the best way to get the most amount of air in.

    I am building custom headers that may or may not be using the stock mounting location. But that is a conversation for my build thread.

    I want to concentrate on getting more air to the turbos and not get derailed on whether it is needed for someone's particular application. That is for them to decided on their own.

  10. #46
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    I'm wondering if any of you have installed the heat reflective tape to this car??

    I never got around to it as most my project cars weren't as compact as this one is, but I do know the "real" silver is the best stuff to use (F1 cars use it, but more expensive) as opposed to the crazy looking gold.

    You also gotta be careful and not get the fake stuff....

    http://www.thermalprotectioninc.com/...ive_Films.html


    I think trying to combat the heat might be more beneficial than trying to force more air into the stock turbos in our application, you could wrap the tubes, bottom of the carbon box and even the turbo inlet tubes with this stuff, the entire intake would then reflect 90% of the radiant heat in our engine bay. I think I could get along with the silver over the gold aesthetically.

    I also think our intake manifold could use phenolic spacers or the real deal black ceramic coating from jethot, along with the manifolds.

    A link to the good stuff! : http://www.hrpworld.com/store/defaul...-ft-13863.html
    Last edited by s8prtotype; January 25th, 2015 at 19:52.
    BB GT28's w/ Tial Wastegates, Full 3" Open Exhaust, Wagners, Billet Triple Disk Converter, Built Trans, Exedy Friction Disks, ECU/TCU Tuned, 450/AEM400/1000cc/AFPR, E85, R8 Coils, Nubcake Tuned. Fastest RS6 in the USA :)

  11. #47
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    To add to that, a quick search leads to the milka build thread... (as well as Fluid Motor Unions build) and it looks like he simply ported the 1.8T Phenolic spacers and they worked.

    I'm just wondering if the "big port" AEB spacers are close to our port size on the heads/intake...

    034 has them for only $57 Each...

    http://store.034motorsport.com/intak...-phenolic.html
    BB GT28's w/ Tial Wastegates, Full 3" Open Exhaust, Wagners, Billet Triple Disk Converter, Built Trans, Exedy Friction Disks, ECU/TCU Tuned, 450/AEM400/1000cc/AFPR, E85, R8 Coils, Nubcake Tuned. Fastest RS6 in the USA :)

  12. #48
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    Good info on the silver insulation wrap. In some applications I have liked the gold but definitely prefer the silver.

    Thanks!

  13. #49
    Registered User audiprotn's Avatar
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  14. #50
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    I am wondering how come when we talk about induction we never never talk about exhaust or anyone care to mention manifold. The principle is simple , for one we have an air pump called an engine, which has a displacement of 4.2 liters. So in an NA situation it swallows 4.2 liters of air in( 4 strokes * 8 pistons) so the air pump must exhale the same amount , within those 4 strokes as well. In an forced induction the air pump seems to have more displacement due to the fact we force more air into the pump. The restrictive values are seen at the exhaust stage primarily due the fact that exhaust manifolds are not the most efficeint, you normally are cramped for space and their every hot which does not help expulsion.

    So if you have bigger turbos ( and let's not get into the discussion of ignition, fueling, timing and sheer design strength) you need to account for the evacuation of said bigger volume of air. ( now if you had a diesel well that's another story) So again plan for the entire cycle of air movement from entry to exhaust. Someone mentioned cooler air IMHO that is the way to go. , look also at your stock exhaust and see what a reputable shop can do for you. Do not forget to get a custom remap to maximize your new enhanced breathing pump.

  15. #51
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    I believe everyone knows that you need larger exhaust manifolds to make bigger power. It has been discussed a lot... I will be having some made as soon as that becomes the next step.

    It seems like it is almost an impossible task to get people to do what they are hired to do. Not only on my RS6 project but on my Ford Cummins project and 4 rotor RX7 project. I waited almost a year to get a custom gear set made for my RS6 six speed that is being installed. Terry Griffin has still not had his old car dynoed with and without the stock intake stuff that was originally spoke of in this thread.

    I am sort of over thread making on the forum. It all seems like it turns into much ado about nothing.

    When my car is done I will post up pictures and results. But it will definitely have custom exhaust headers.

    Thanks for listening to my venting....

  16. #52
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    i think a lot of people that have previously posted have lost the plot of the initial thread.

    COLD air COOLER air will increase the performance, although only slightly, there will still be an increase.

    The thread was labelled:
    RS6 Cold Air Intake Options

    not modified bigger air intake options?

  17. #53
    Registered User ttboost's Avatar
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    I think it's been said many, many times, but the single biggest restriction in the RS6 exhaust system is the turbine housing, period. The stock exhaust flows plenty for what's there from the factory. Doing any exhaust work (other than de-catting) is a waste of time with stock turbos, in my opinion. Downpipes would be next restriction...

  18. #54
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Del Stator View Post
    I am sort of over thread making on the forum. It all seems like it turns into much ado about nothing.
    That's because nothing has happened with your car ...sorry, couldn't resist.

    There was a good amount of reasonable feedback I thought, mostly regarding what works and what doesn't, and what would cost a lot of cash to achieve. I do understand that you have a set plan in mind, and it gets tiring to have it questioned I'm sure. Looking forward to seeing some pics of the progress, and more information on how it all goes!
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

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