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Thread: Apikol MAF seals upgrade

  1. #1
    Registered User mik15's Avatar
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    Apikol MAF seals upgrade

    Alright then, so as you know i've been experiencing some power losses, rough idling and engine stalling for the last few weeks. After some troubleshooting it turned out that it was all due to the MAF seals which weren't any longer as flexible so they let through a lot of un-metered air.

    The method i used to draw the final conclusion was to detach the MAF form the airbox and fit it into the inlet pipe, that's when it became obvious that they had a lot of play within the inlet pipes. Checking the play while attached to the airbox can be very deceiving and inconclusive.

    The difference between the Apikol seals and the OEM ones is not significant in my opinion, the OEM ones are also very good and of a very high quality and well engineered, the problem is that taking off the airbox many times is what kills them in the end, the rubber was still in a very good condition and showed no signs of getting cracked or ripped. They don't shrink as i originally thought, the rubber seal simply gets stuck on the position with the MAF in due tot he heat and it doesn't push against anymore so air escapes in, and in time the gap only gets larger with having them in and out for various reasons.

    While the OEM ones have a metal ring on the outside the Apikol ones are entirely made of rubber.

    Get those inlet pipe stuffed with some cloth to avoid dropping something in there, for the sake of the pictures i had the cloth removed, but when working on it i had it on, don't want to drop a nut or a screw in there .






    So if you buy the OEM ones you won't be wrong and they will last. As seen here on the forum, i have also detached the MAF from the airbox so the next time when i'll remove it i won't damage the MAF seals nor the electrical connectors. Have also replaced the seals between MAF and airbox so everything is really tight, you don't really need the 2 screws on each MAF to keep them tight to the airbox.

    Installing the Apikol seals was easier than expected, i was afraid that the seals would be too bulky and fitting back the MAF would be too difficult, but they're so well made that the clearance is just enough to wiggle them back in using some force and ensure a very tight fit, i have also used a bit of WD40 to lubricate the MAF body so it would slide down easier.




    Before installing the new seals make sure the area on the inlet pipe is cleaned and that the seals are mounted in the right position, they have one edge which is specially designed so it allows the MAF to slide down easier, it's hard to miss it if you look at it carefully. Once the Lock tight applied and seal in place i don't think these can be removed any longer without damaging it, so make sure you get them right from the first time.

    It was actually a bit harder to remove the old ones, as they were also glued or stuck so you need to pry them off, i had no such tool so i used a long nose pliers to grab the seal and then pull upwards, as you can see i pinched the old seal, on the second one i managed to remove it by pushing upwards with my fingers.



    So far i am very happy with this little upgrade that makes such a huge difference, my car pulls so much better now and both MAFs read the same values on vcds, no more error codes and idling is smooth and stable.

    Can't believe how sensitive the car is when it comes to drawing too much air which is not metered.

    If you have never had these seals replaced, i suggest you do it and you will feel the difference. Even though Audi recommends to have these seals replaced every time the airbox is out, being so unreasonably priced i am sure many of us avoid doing it, so getting the Apikol ones is a better deal and unhooking the MAF from the airbox for future removals will prolong their life by a lot.

    I am now a happy bunny again .
    Last edited by mik15; December 8th, 2014 at 08:09.
    Ex.: 2004 Audi RS6 C5 ABT, Milltek non-resonated, 19" RS4 B7 rims, RNS-E - SOLD
    2004 AUdi RS6 C5, SE exhaust, RNS-E, 19' original rims - SOLD
    Now :2009 Audi RS6 C6 - stock yet pretty fast

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    Are you running stock boost?

    Instead of waiting for the Apikol seals, I'm getting ready to glue mine in.
    2012 Q7 TDI S-Line - 2010 GTI - 2007 A3 3.2 S-Line - 2003 RS6
    2001 Honda S2000 - 1977 Honda CBR 750-F2 - 1965 GMC 1500 WideSide

  3. #3
    Registered User mik15's Avatar
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    yeap, stock factory tune
    Ex.: 2004 Audi RS6 C5 ABT, Milltek non-resonated, 19" RS4 B7 rims, RNS-E - SOLD
    2004 AUdi RS6 C5, SE exhaust, RNS-E, 19' original rims - SOLD
    Now :2009 Audi RS6 C6 - stock yet pretty fast

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    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik15 View Post
    So far i am very happy with this little upgrade that makes such a huge difference, my car pulls so much better now and both MAFs read the same values on vcds, no more error codes and idling is smooth and stable.
    Very nice, thanks for the details, I'll pick these up for next time needed. It's stuff like this that makes a big difference. I remember getting my new IC hoses and tanks sealed/cleaned, really gave the car it's clean smooth power delivery back to 100%. When I hear someone complaining about X amount of power in a tune/mods, and only going X fast, makes me think their car isn't dialed in with little details such as this. Carry on!
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

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    Registered User RSoverAll's Avatar
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    Great upgrade Mik, I have yet to pull my airbox off but I already got these in the mail after reading your post about idling/poor performance etc.

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    Good to know; I'm putting this on my to-do list, along with changing my fuel filter when I can get my lazy ass on the cold cement floor!
    2017 Subaru BRZ Limited w/ Performance Pack 6MT
    2003 Audi RS 6 quattro 5AT - sold

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveKen View Post
    Are you running stock boost?

    Instead of waiting for the Apikol seals, I'm getting ready to glue mine in.
    Boost shouldn't matter, as that component is not under boost, but is subject to a negative air pressure.

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    I did the Apikol seals....my opinion on quality and installation was...meh....the glue they give you sucks, and the only really good way to have the MAF's installed is to unscrew them off the airbox and put the airbox on after the MAF's are installed.....in which case, 0.98 cents of RTV will do what the Apikol seals do. My guess is your crappy power is from a bad wiring harness or MAF that happened to be fixed by removing and installing the MAF's. Having spent the money on Apikol to try to fix a "MAF implausible" code I wouldn't do it again.

  9. #9
    Registered User mik15's Avatar
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    i agree that if you will try to install the MAF attached to the airbox it could be a real PITA as with the Apikol seals they sit very very tight, but as i said, i have chosen to fit them first and then attach the airbox without using the screws anymore to keep them tight to it, this saves the electrical connectors in the future and seals as well. I don't think is necessary as long you change the seals between the MAF and airbox as well and have the rubber grommets and use the screws to attach it to the engine.

    The glue i got was really good, nothing bad to say about that. In regards to quality, time will tell, judging by the look and feel of it they do seem of a very good one, but given the amount of heat in there i am pretty sure the 0.98 cents wouldn't last for too long.

    Who ever wants to get the OEM ones wont' be wrong, is just that for me $120 seems unreasonable and since this choice was available i figured it would worth a shot. If i had no choice i would've bought the original ones and definitely not the 0.98 cents .

    My error was only fuel trim related, i didn't have the one you mentioned, in which case it is pretty obvious an electrical issue.
    Ex.: 2004 Audi RS6 C5 ABT, Milltek non-resonated, 19" RS4 B7 rims, RNS-E - SOLD
    2004 AUdi RS6 C5, SE exhaust, RNS-E, 19' original rims - SOLD
    Now :2009 Audi RS6 C6 - stock yet pretty fast

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    Registered User yokust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 905084 View Post
    I did the Apikol seals....my opinion on quality and installation was...meh....the glue they give you sucks, and the only really good way to have the MAF's installed is to unscrew them off the airbox and put the airbox on after the MAF's are installed.....in which case, 0.98 cents of RTV will do what the Apikol seals do. My guess is your crappy power is from a bad wiring harness or MAF that happened to be fixed by removing and installing the MAF's. Having spent the money on Apikol to try to fix a "MAF implausible" code I wouldn't do it again.

    Bummed to hear that you dont like the seals. Havent had any complaints about them ever. In 1 of my cars(test pig) they have been in there for 50k, never have come loose or had an issue. And fixed many fuel trim issues on RS6's that we install them on.

    But for sure will not fix an 'implausible' code. Thats either the wiring at the mafs is cracked and shorted and coming apart or mafs are bad. Which most mafs on these cars fail from the wiring coming apart.

    I would highly not recomend using any .98 cent silicone on anything pre-turbo, any peice of that coming thru will chew up a comp wheel very fast. And have seen many other attempts of sealing mafs cause turbo failures(rtv, orings, foam sleeve)

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    Registered User yokust's Avatar
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    Mik15 Glad to hear the good review thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorb View Post
    Boost shouldn't matter, as that component is not under boost, but is subject to a negative air pressure.
    I'm counting on the notion that the negative air pressure increases inversely proportional to boost and the seals are failing at a certain point somewhere above the stock boost.

    Quote Originally Posted by yokust View Post
    I would highly not recomend using any .98 cent silicone on anything pre-turbo, any peice of that coming thru will chew up a comp wheel very fast. And have seen many other attempts of sealing mafs cause turbo failures(rtv, orings, foam sleeve)
    Dammit, you convinced me. I just ordered a set in lieu of RTV'ing my MAF housings in.

    Maybe with the USPS Priority mail, I'll have them by Saturday and hopefully find out that this solves my issues.
    2012 Q7 TDI S-Line - 2010 GTI - 2007 A3 3.2 S-Line - 2003 RS6
    2001 Honda S2000 - 1977 Honda CBR 750-F2 - 1965 GMC 1500 WideSide

  13. #13
    Registered User mik15's Avatar
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    Graphs

    here is some logs i did today, what do you think? to my inexperienced eye the timing seems odd....other than that i think it is pretty good, i like the MAF readings and boost looks ok to me too...

    Ex.: 2004 Audi RS6 C5 ABT, Milltek non-resonated, 19" RS4 B7 rims, RNS-E - SOLD
    2004 AUdi RS6 C5, SE exhaust, RNS-E, 19' original rims - SOLD
    Now :2009 Audi RS6 C6 - stock yet pretty fast

  14. #14
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Mik, what tune do you have? Timing gets pulled down really low, loss of power at that point, and I think if you ever hit negative timing it will cut boost. Boost looks good. Log in Turbo mode next time for more detailed results, really lets you see just where issues or measuring points are. It's a check box at the top of the screen.

    A note on publishing these logs. Export what you want from Excel as a webpage; it's local at this point, in your Documents or something like that. Open that webpage in your browser, then use the cursor to highlight and copy all. Paste that into your reply here, it should drop right in and be normal text size.
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  15. #15
    Registered User mik15's Avatar
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    it is stock tune, no remap....what else could pull the timing down if no tune?

    Thanks for the tip on publishing. This a jpeg format hosted on tinypic. will try what you said.
    Ex.: 2004 Audi RS6 C5 ABT, Milltek non-resonated, 19" RS4 B7 rims, RNS-E - SOLD
    2004 AUdi RS6 C5, SE exhaust, RNS-E, 19' original rims - SOLD
    Now :2009 Audi RS6 C6 - stock yet pretty fast

  16. #16
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    OK, boost isn't that much more that what I heard was stock (8-9psi). Seems your boost is more around 10-11psi, but I guess that's no where near tuned which is usually 15-18psi. This is assuming sea level, but guessing you're close.
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  17. #17
    Registered User mik15's Avatar
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    could the timing be pulled due to AIT high? which usually is here around 70-80C, which is what i had today as well...we're at sea level here...
    Ex.: 2004 Audi RS6 C5 ABT, Milltek non-resonated, 19" RS4 B7 rims, RNS-E - SOLD
    2004 AUdi RS6 C5, SE exhaust, RNS-E, 19' original rims - SOLD
    Now :2009 Audi RS6 C6 - stock yet pretty fast

  18. #18
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik15 View Post
    could the timing be pulled due to AIT high? which usually is here around 70-80C, which is what i had today as well...we're at sea level here...
    70-80F you mean??? Nothing would run too good at that Celsius That temp should be fine. Maybe it's getting lean from extra air or something, but maybe that's just how they run stock. I thought when tuning we were generally shooting for lows in the 5-10 range.
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

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