Timing Belt Tools/Questions

[P1054]

So I've searched through the timing belt threads on here but I still have a couple of questions.

As you may have read in my other thread, I had a unintentional meeting with a concrete barrier during the "snow storm" we just had. Fortunately the damage was minimal, so I decided to do the repairs myself. Since the front end was already apart and I was about due for the 115k service anyway, I figured I'd do it all at the same time.

So my first question. I'm in SW Washington state, just north of Vancouver. Are there any fellow RS6-ers in the area with the cam locking bar and crank locking pin tools for doing the timing belt job that might be willing to lend them to me for a couple of days?

And my second question: I was working on getting the front end into the service position, but even with following the Bentley manual and other write-ups I've seen, there doesn't seem to be nearly enough slack in the 20 or so hoses at the lower portion of the lock carrier to allow it to slide out the supposed 2 or so inches to the service position. Am I missing something? Or is the RS6 more complicated than other C5 cars in this aspect as well? And is it worth just pulling the whole lock carrier off? I assume that would mean disconnecting all of the hoses, which would mean draining, or at least partially draining, the oil, transmission, AC, and coolant (and power steering fluid possibly?). I'm already draining the coolant and oil, and it probably wouldn't hurt to change the transmission fluid too. The AC seems fine, but it's not the end of the world if I end up having to recharge that too.

[DHall1]

dont pull all the hoses. It can be done with alittle effort just double check you have everything loose.

[ben916]

Since you are in the PNW, you might contact Mark (haghmgh63) for assistance.

I contacted Jake (Brazil) if he had the RS6 cam locking bar and he said he didn't.

Be warned:
If you purchase a "kit" from, say ECS, some of the parts are generic and aren't specific to the RS6. There is a timing belt parts list on here somewhere...
I purchased a "kit" from PureMS and the t-stat was wrong temp and the ACTUAL timing belt was for a 2.7 (not sure how they F$cked that one up?!?!?)
I have 2 quarts of G-12 if you are interested and that 2.7 timing belt...

I had my timing belt changed at University Audi for $1600... just saying.

[RAUDI]

So I've searched through the timing belt threads on here but I still have a couple of questions.

As you may have read in my other thread, I had a unintentional meeting with a concrete barrier during the "snow storm" we just had. Fortunately the damage was minimal, so I decided to do the repairs myself. Since the front end was already apart and I was about due for the 115k service anyway, I figured I'd do it all at the same time.

So my first question. I'm in SW Washington state, just north of Vancouver. Are there any fellow RS6-ers in the area with the cam locking bar and crank locking pin tools for doing the timing belt job that might be willing to lend them to me for a couple of days?

And my second question: I was working on getting the front end into the service position, but even with following the Bentley manual and other write-ups I've seen, there doesn't seem to be nearly enough slack in the 20 or so hoses at the lower portion of the lock carrier to allow it to slide out the supposed 2 or so inches to the service position. Am I missing something? Or is the RS6 more complicated than other C5 cars in this aspect as well? And is it worth just pulling the whole lock carrier off? I assume that would mean disconnecting all of the hoses, which would mean draining, or at least partially draining, the oil, transmission, AC, and coolant (and power steering fluid possibly?). I'm already draining the coolant and oil, and it probably wouldn't hurt to change the transmission fluid too. The AC seems fine, but it's not the end of the world if I end up having to recharge that too.

I got all of my tools off of eBay for under $100 and they are very nice. All of the part numbers are in my google drive on the Excel spreadsheet too. PM me your email address if you want access.

Crankshaft Locking Pin VAG 3242
Camshaft Locking Bar VAG 3391
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-AUDI-Cams...ht_3610wt_1102

Camshaft retaining tool VAG 3366
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Camshaft-Ret...#ht_671wt_1117

Belt tensioning tool
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matra-T40009...#ht_1287wt_956

[RAUDI]

Also, I used Europa parts for the majority of my parts and got my blue kevlar gates belt off of Amazon for only 39.99.

My excel has every part number and quanities listed.

[P1054]

Thanks for the responses! RAUDI, I actually did the exact same thing. I ordered the Europa Parts kit sans the belt, and ordered the Gates Racing blue kevlar belt from Amazon. From what I read, the Europa Parts kit seemed to be the best overall except the belt.

I also went ahead and ordered the tools. I figure the car should last through several more t-belt changes at least, and I've always liked to have all of the right tools for whatever I do.

And DHall, I'll go ahead with your suggestion and not pull any more of the hoses. The only ones I disconnect were a couple of coolant lines at the top, since I'll already be draining and replacing the coolant anyway.

I appreciate the input!

[Bigglezworth]

The only ones I disconnect were a couple of coolant lines at the top, since I'll already be draining and replacing the coolant anyway.

You have to disconnect the upper coolant hoses for the Aux rads and the main rad. The hoses that Dave was mentioning to not disconnect are specific to the two oil lines at the bottom on the passenger side, both aux coolant lines on the bottom, the A/C lines at the bottom on both sides, power steering at the bottom on the drivers side, and tranny cooler at the bottom on drivers side.

[RAUDI]

Thanks for the responses! RAUDI, I actually did the exact same thing. I ordered the Europa Parts kit sans the belt, and ordered the Gates Racing blue kevlar belt from Amazon. From what I read, the Europa Parts kit seemed to be the best overall except the belt.

I also went ahead and ordered the tools. I figure the car should last through several more t-belt changes at least, and I've always liked to have all of the right tools for whatever I do.

And DHall, I'll go ahead with your suggestion and not pull any more of the hoses. The only ones I disconnect were a couple of coolant lines at the top, since I'll already be draining and replacing the coolant anyway.

I appreciate the input!

Their kit is even better now that I've ordered from them. Before me the kit only had 1 roller and no crank bolt. I let them know the stuff was missing and sent them a picture of the timing route to prove it. They fixed their website within the hour.

[Korben007]

Jhm is a great source for timing belt kits! There r extra hoses but didn't find it much worse then a 2.7t

[JayB]

Jhm is a great source for timing belt kits! There r extra hoses but didn't find it much worse then a 2.7t

Did you have a timing belt replaced at JHM or just get the parts from them?

[Korben007]

I just got the kit from them. Did the install myself.

[P1054]

I suppose since I started this thread, I should probably post my results!

As I mentioned above, I bought the kit from Europa Parts per RAUDI's suggestion, except the timing belt itself. That item I purchased from Amazon so I could get the Gates Blue Racing kevlar belt. I don't know if the racing belt makes that much of a difference, but on this car I figure it's worth the extra couple of dollars. I also went ahead and purchased the cam locking bar (VAG #3391) and crank locking pin (VAG #3242). They were INVALUABLE in making the job go smoothing, I would HIGHLY recommend not attempting the timing belt job without them. I did not purchase the camshaft retaining tool (VAG #3366) or the belt tensioning tool, and the job still went fine.

All of the parts in the Europa Parts kit seemed to be of good quality, and they all fit perfectly. The only interesting thing was that the thermostat provided was a different part number than the one I removed. I don't remember what the part numbers were, but I did look them both up to see what the difference was. It appears the one in the car originally has a slightly lower opening temperature than the one I replaced it with. If I remember right, the difference was about 3 degrees Celsius. I figured that difference wasn't too huge, so I went ahead and installed the new one. Hopefully it won't cause any major problems.

Anyway, I got the timing belt job all wrapped up, following the procedures in the Bentley manual and the ElsaWin software (interestingly they differ in a few aspects, I think overall the ElsaWin one is more accurate since it is RS6 specific while a lot of the Bentley manual covers all of the C5 models in general). Once everything was buttoned up, I refilled the coolant. I first pulled the heater core hose back to expose the bleed hole and filled until it overflowed there. Then I opened the bleeder screw on the hard pipe behind the passenger side valve cover and it immediately began running out clear, so I retightened that screw. Next, I pulled each cap that I had installed after deleting the aux radiators to make sure no air bubbles were trapped in the dead-ended lines. One had quite a bit of air, but it cleared out after about 30 seconds. After bleeding those four locations, I filled the reservoir to max and reinstalled the reservoir cap. I then turned the ignition on and off a few times to prime the fuel system (I had disconnected the two fuel lines to remove the passenger side valve cover during the service). Finally, it was time to start the beast. I held my breath and turned the key, and it fired right up like nothing had been changed! I let it warm up with the heater maxed out and started getting hot air once the temp gauge reached about 11 o'clock. I waited until it stabilized a 12 o'clock, then turned it off and let it cool down. When I checked the coolant reservoir after it had cooled, it was well below the min mark so I refilled it to max and started the car back up. This time, after it had warmed up, the coolant level was still right where it was supposed to be, and the engine was still running perfectly.

So, all in all, the job went very well. I'm not a professional mechanic by any means, but I had no problems doing the job. I just made sure I had read the Bentley and ElsaWin directions before I started and followed them while doing the work, and took plenty of photos as I was disassembling stuff so I could get them back together correctly. I hear all the time that working on German cars is a nightmare, but in this case I'd have to disagree. Yes, you need to pull the lock carrier into the service position to access the front of the engine, but it's not difficult by any means. And yes you do "need" some specialty tools (in my case the only ones I had were the locking bar and crank pin I mentioned above), but other than that it only required basic mechanic's tools. And yes it takes some time, but no more than it took me to to the timing belt job in my Acura, and I'm pretty sure the RS6 job went more smoothly.

And finally, I would definitely recommend the Europa Parts kit. The parts all seem to be of excellent quality, the price is very competitive, and if you're so inclined you can easily add or delete individual items from the kit when you purchase it.

Also, if anyone in the Portland/Vancouver area decides they want to do their own timing belt service and doesn't want to buy the VAG tools, I've got the cam locking bar and crank locking pin that I'd be willing to loan out to a fellow RS6-er. Just shoot me a PM.

[P1054]

Oh, I forgot to address the question I'd asked about removing the entire lock carrier. I followed DHall's suggestion and did NOT remove any of the lower hoses, only the upper ones. When I posted the question originally, I though I had wiggled and cajoled the lock carrier out as far as I could without removing the lower hoses, but it turns out with a bit more wiggling and cajoling it suddenly slid out easily another 4". I'm not exactly sure what was holding it up, but after that I had more than enough room to do all of the work.

[Turboluvr]

I pulled the front end off completely, just be sure to support it. There is enough play in the lower hoses to allow you full access to the front of the engine.

[DHall1]

Its been so long since we did mine. I have forgotten how to do these. Haha

Cue the memory banks....#1 due in 25k and #2 due in 25k. Oh crap

[mik15]

i bought from Europa Parts a T-stat, along with a bunch of other parts last time before doing the T-belt, and it was an 87C one while we need an 82C, so bought another one from Audi, otherwise all good. However, even though some parts are advertised on the website as being original when i got it they don't have the Audi logo, they're reputable and trust-worthy brands but still they shouldn't advertise it as original.

[Brav]

I pulled the front end off completely, just be sure to support it. There is enough play in the lower hoses to allow you full access to the front of the engine.

The cable for the hood latch can sometimes cause a snag, as well as a the thin plastic bleed line going from passenger side upper radiator hose back to the firewall. Jiggling does help a lot, otherwise.

[P1054]

The cable for the hood latch can sometimes cause a snag, as well as a the thin plastic bleed line going from passenger side upper radiator hose back to the firewall. Jiggling does help a lot, otherwise.

Yep, I unclipped the hood latch cable from a few of it's clips, and disconnected that coolant line from the upper rad hose to the reservoir. Made things a lot easier, especially when I was removing the valve covers.

As far as the t-stat goes, I guess I'll see if it causes any issues. I've logged the coolant temp before, so I'll see if there is any difference now.. But I have to think it should still work fine, I just won't have heat quite as quickly on those cold days. Or is there some other potential issue I'm missing?