Back together after engine out

[Brav]

I know it has been a long time, and my plans have changed from the original 6 speed project.. so I decided to start a new thread for the assembly.

She is back together, and have most of the kinks ironed out. Was difficult to remember the routing of wires and such, and next time I will do a better job at documenting parts as I remove them (i.e., screws). Here are some photos of the process.

here is the front end. did all timing components, new pump, and new front crank seal. You can see the build up from the crank seal.. after 175k, it was time.


Waterpump was also leaking.


Before and after Buffkin pipe. YEA I think I got 99.9999% of the useful life out of the old part! Everyone must do this for any engine-out work.


Top end, seems happy for 175k


Cleaning up valve covers and other components. Small amount of sludge, but mostly dirty due to leaking covers. Had never been replaced since I've owned the car



Back together with rebuilt turbos and new engine mounts.



My solution for properly sealing the leaking caps of the aux radiator plumbing. Pinch welded via TIG - thanking my buddy at a local shop for this.


Wagner hose was too long - and pinching itself in the middle. had to hack saw it down a bit to fit right


Holding herself in

[Brav]

I broke in the rebuild turbos from Midwest Turbo as they prescribed. After the oil change, the car has felt very sluggish.

From the ABS group, I got the intermittent gear recognition signal code (01119) and freaked out, thinking it was the trans, but turned out to be wheel speed sensors that were quite dirty. cleaned all 4, and hasn't come back.

From the Trans group, all has been good, zero codes until today - 17095 - Transmission fluid temp sensor (G93) - implausible signal, intermittent. (??) Anyone have this before?

From the ECU - the only code I get is 16716 - Knock Sensor 2 (G66) - P0332 -002 - signal too low. I clear this and it comes back every time.

Today I finally logged the measuring blocks for the knock sensors - all are around 0.8 or so at idle, and go up to 1.5-2.5 when engine revs.. EXCEPT for the two on cylinders 5 and 6. Both of these read a steady 0.234v at all times, not a flinch.

I did a road test log, see below. All looks well, except boost was slightly low on first pull, and more low on second pull. Lamdas look good to me. But lo and behold, look at the timing!! pulling to -8 to -9 in high RPM. I could only do a second gear pull due to traffic, but I think this is good evidence of the symptom/problem.

So is my faulty/(unplugged?) knock sensor the cause of the timing being pulled? Where is G66? Please tell me I have to pull the motor to get to it. I have absolutely nothing more I would rather do than that.

TIME

(G28)

(G70 + G246)

Timing Angle

TIME

Bank 1 (actual)

Bank 1 (specified)

Bank 2 (actual)

Bank 2 (specified)

TIME

(G28)

(specified)

(actual)

STAMP

/min

g/s

%

°BTDC

STAMP

V

V

V

V

STAMP

/min

%

mbar

mbar

1.37	2720	118.78	97.3	11.3	1.41	0.085	0.075	0.14	0.085	1.45	2720	84.2	1790	1180
1.48	2760	127.58	99.6	9	1.51	0.68	0.16	0.72	0.665	1.55	2840	91.7	1820	1230
1.6	2840	139.56	100	6	1.64	0.765	0.71	0.79	0.745	1.67	2880	98.5	1850	1310
1.7	2880	148.06	100	5.3	1.73	0.815	0.815	0.82	0.815	1.77	2960	104.5	1880	1370
1.82	3000	169.44	100	3	1.86	0.815	0.83	0.82	0.82	1.91	3040	113.5	1910	1500
1.96	3080	188.14	100	-0.8	2	0.81	0.825	0.805	0.81	2.05	3160	125.6	1940	1630
2.1	3160	213.14	100	-3	2.14	0.815	0.83	0.815	0.805	2.19	3240	136.8	1980	1740
2.23	3280	225.56	100	-4.5	2.26	0.82	0.835	0.805	0.8	2.29	3280	142.1	1980	1790
2.33	3360	226.44	100	-5.3	2.38	0.83	0.845	0.825	0.81	2.43	3400	147.4	2020	1830
2.47	3400	236.53	100	-5.3	2.52	0.835	0.85	0.83	0.82	2.57	3520	151.1	2040	1860
2.61	3560	253.69	100	-6.8	2.66	0.835	0.85	0.84	0.83	2.71	3600	155.6	2050	1890
2.75	3600	263.5	100	-8.3	2.8	0.835	0.85	0.84	0.83	2.85	3720	159.4	2050	1910
2.89	3720	276.22	100	-9	2.94	0.84	0.85	0.84	0.83	2.98	3800	160.2	2050	1930
3.01	3840	278.39	100	-8.3	3.04	0.84	0.85	0.835	0.83	3.08	3840	160.9	2060	1940
3.13	3880	284.39	100	-8.3	3.17	0.83	0.845	0.845	0.83	3.2	3960	160.9	2060	1940
3.23	3960	285.17	100	-9	3.27	0.835	0.845	0.84	0.835	3.31	4000	160.9	2050	1940
3.36	4080	289.28	100	-7.5	3.41	0.835	0.85	0.84	0.835	3.45	4080	160.2	2060	1910
3.49	4080	289.08	100	-7.5	3.53	0.835	0.85	0.845	0.835	3.58	4200	157.9	2070	1900
3.62	4240	295.11	100	-7.5	3.66	0.84	0.85	0.835	0.835	3.69	4240	157.9	2080	1900
3.72	4240	309.83	100	-7.5	3.76	0.835	0.85	0.84	0.835	3.79	4320	158.6	2070	1900
3.82	4360	306.28	100	-6.8	3.86	0.835	0.85	0.84	0.83	3.9	4400	161.7	2080	1890
3.95	4360	318.25	100	-9	4.01	0.83	0.845	0.845	0.84	4.04	4480	162.4	2080	1910
4.07	4520	334.5	100	-9	4.1	0.83	0.845	0.835	0.83	4.13	4520	163.9	2090	1940
4.16	4520	341.89	100	-9	4.2	0.83	0.845	0.835	0.84	4.23	4600	165.4	2100	1940
4.26	4600	340	100	-9	4.31	0.83	0.845	0.84	0.84	4.36	4640	165.4	2090	1960
4.4	4680	362.39	100	-9	4.43	0.835	0.845	0.84	0.84	4.47	4760	170.7	2100	1970
4.51	4760	364.08	100	-8.3	4.54	0.84	0.85	0.84	0.84	4.57	4800	171.4	2070	1990
4.62	4800	364.08	100	-8.3	4.65	0.84	0.85	0.85	0.845	4.68	4880	172.9	2060	2000
4.73	4880	364.08	100	-8.3	4.76	0.845	0.855	0.84	0.84	4.81	4920	172.9	2030	2000
4.84	4960	364.08	100	-8.3	4.88	0.845	0.855	0.84	0.845	4.92	5000	172.9	2020	2010
4.96	5040	364.08	100	-8.3	4.99	0.84	0.86	0.84	0.84	5.04	5040	175.2	2020	2000
5.07	5080	364.08	100	-8.3	5.12	0.845	0.86	0.84	0.845	5.16	5160	172.9	2020	2020
5.2	5200	364.08	100	-8.3	5.24	0.84	0.855	0.845	0.845	5.28	5200	174.4	2020	2000
5.32	5240	364.08	100	-8.3	5.37	0.84	0.86	0.845	0.845	5.42	5280	172.9	2020	1980
5.46	5320	364.08	100	-8.3	5.5	0.86	0.855	0.845	0.845	5.54	5320	168.4	1000	1930

[Beardown1]

Wow....nice work Brav. I am right behind you and also had the turbos rebuilt @ Midwest. I talked with Dan there and got the go ahead to use synthetic oil during the break in. I just need to limit boost for an extra 100 miles or so. Unfortunately I can't help with the logs, but you know there will be many who can. Good luck!

[905084]

I had the same problem with the Wag hoses.....too long but dealt with them.. :/ I still haven't changed the oil from my rebuild with the Midwest Turbos (3k in) and I love them.....flogged Thing 2 today hard and god I love it!!

[lswing]

Replace that G93 temp sensor ASAP, it can cause errors in your TC locking. I can send you an email with instructions and pictures, imagine sensor is cheap but got mine for free.

Boost looks fine. Are your logs screwed up or is that negative timing?

[Brav]

Replace that G93 temp sensor ASAP, it can cause errors in your TC locking. I can send you an email with instructions and pictures, imagine sensor is cheap but got mine for free.

Boost looks fine. Are your logs screwed up or is that negative timing?

Logs are unfortunately correct. You can see, the time it took to get from 2500 rpm to 5500 rpm was nearly 3 seconds. Eternal. 2nd gear pull in this thing was blistering before.

Yes, please send the email, would be helpful!

[lswing]

Will dig it up, direct from Tozo. Gotta drop pan, but sensor is easy to get to, in vb wiring. Option before that is check connection at trans, can get crusty.

So that negative timing is screwed up. How is the ecu not checking that? Whenever I've hit negative, when my tune was off, ecu would pull boost, and timing would jump back positive. Running good I am at around 25-35 timing, then down to 8-12 under full boost, never negative. Something wrong with timing belt job maybe?

[Brav]

Will dig it up, direct from Tozo. Gotta drop pan, but sensor is easy to get to, in vb wiring. Option before that is check connection at trans, can get crusty.

So that negative timing is screwed up. How is the ecu not checking that? Whenever I've hit negative, when my tune was off, ecu would pull boost, and timing would jump back positive. Running good I am at around 25-35 timing, then down to 8-12 under full boost, never negative. Something wrong with timing belt job maybe?

Could be. but the car runs normal and smooth under under high load. Timing is normal when cruising, 25-35 as you state. Cam phase adjustors seem to be working correctly. The only correlation is with the knock sensor code/voltages... when cruising, they are all low. then under load, they all rise but two, so sending an implausible single maybe, and pulling all timing?

[lswing]

Sure somebody that knows more will chime in, never seen a timing pull like that, sounds like you might be thinking in the right direction....

[4everRS]

That timing is not right. My guess is those knock sensors are screwing it up.

Nice shop you've got to work in there

[905084]

How did you do the timing belt?

[hahnmgh63]

No help in determining which sensor but a related thread. Notice where he say's it is pulling his timing.
http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/23...t=knock+sensor
Anyone have access to Elsawin? My old computer died and I was told it wouldn't load up on Win7.
P.S. never had a code on the tranny, I would try the electrical plugs first, contact cleaner (pro-gold, Stabiliant 44) and re-attach.

[lswing]

G93 trans temp sensor, little orange guy mixed into VB wiring. Here are a few additional images to help. Cut wiring and solder in new one, been fine for months now.

[Brav]

How did you do the timing belt?

with a VAG timing bar, markings, the whole bit. Had a dealer tech help me out on that part since he had the tools.

[905084]

Pin the crank too I assume.....so that leaves out the mechanical....on to the sensors....

[hahnmgh63]

Can you post a log of the knock sensors Block 20 & 21 along with Block 3 (timing). Together they should tell if "sensed knock" and the timing pull are occurring together.
http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/m_blocks/

[milka]

If you want to check your cam timing, do a quick log of block 93.

You should start using me7logger, you can monitor >70 metrics at more than 15 times/sec

[Brav]

Pin the crank too I assume.....so that leaves out the mechanical....on to the sensors....

Yes, crank was pinned. Will do logs shortly and report back.