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Thread: Slipping 3rd to 4th when hot...

  1. #1
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Slipping 3rd to 4th when hot...

    Well, still acting up here, figured I'd post for some extra input...

    Went out to log data on a warm day here, 85, had been driving around the city for a while so car was reading 90 on the display. First run in 3rd, Tip manual shift mode, shudders around 3,000 then pops into 4th around 4,500rpm, so much for logging, onto the problem.

    Trans is 8 months old, upgraded A clutch pack after rebuild. Trans fluid flushed and confirmed filled to the top. Got some input from Tozo; I mentioned I had pulled the Aux radiators last year; he said trans fluid could be overheating/foaming and not being able to hold enough pressure to keep in gear.

    Any other thoughts on why the fluid would be getting so hot?

    Also for the first time got a trans code, scanned right when I got home; Trans Temp Sensor, reading implausible...hmmm, so that means it's hot I'm guessing, or just odd timing with a wiring issue. Car has full boost and more than enough power, too much apparently.

    Also wonder if the notches we cut in the trimmed trans filter pickup might be adding to the fluid foaming? Don't know really. Thinking a flush with new fluid and filter, trim pickup just a bit this time, see how things look in there.

    Just fishing, thanks for any ideas/input....
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  2. #2
    Registered User kevin's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear. Cut your losses and install an 01E.
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  3. #3
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin View Post
    Sorry to hear. Cut your losses and install an 01E.
    Thanks, but no can do, bad back keeps me from operating a clutch more than on the weekends. Maybe down the road...waiting 4-5 years for the RS7 to show up used for $40-50k, then the RS6 can be a track/toy and not daily.

    Might just need more cooling, being optimistic. Drove the hell out of the car on many occasions this spring when it was cooler, no issues even after hours. I've certainly hit the clutch's hard on many occasions, and the car has great power, really hoping it didn't eat another trans, but only have about 200-300 hard shifts on it under full throttle...
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

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    How hot is "hot" for the trans fluid temp when it skips? VCDS ...."Lite" will tell you the zach temp of the trans fluid. And the fluid in the trans is what? Need more info...

  5. #5
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 905084 View Post
    How hot is "hot" for the trans fluid temp when it skips?
    Dunno, crap, should have checked it with VAG when I was out eh?

    Car reading 90F on the dash, drove around town for 30 mins, then out to the highway...
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

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    And, as far as I know from my experience (cause I suck with the TIP mode) it will upshift by itself, when it decides you didn't and you should have. Just like the paddle mode only lasts for so long till it decides to shift for you....

  7. #7
    Registered User mik15's Avatar
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    that sucks, but i don't really think is the oil temperature, by your description it does slip. My car was running here at 110-120F outside, even when the TC was bad never had issues with slipping and the gearbox oil temperature never went above 225F and that was on a track day, otherwise it was set at around 180-190F. At cca 250F the gearbox will go into limp mode. In manual mode it will only up-shift at red line, otherwise it will not do it.

    Do a log while driving it to get a better reading of the gearbox oil temperature, it might after all be the cause if it gets too hot, though at 85F outside that doesn't really seem plausible, unless you've really beating the crap out of it.

    But then again, if the Trans Temp Sensor is out, that could also be the culprit.
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    I have my own issues with the A clutch. It's applied in 4th and 5th gear.

    Dont know why that clutch would go first. Much more load on 1-2 and 2-3 shifts.

    Aux coolers. Unless your coolant temps are rising and your car is overheating. It makes no difference if they are there or not. Coolant temp is determined by tstat.

    Quote Originally Posted by lswing View Post
    Well, still acting up here, figured I'd post for some extra input...

    Went out to log data on a warm day here, 85, had been driving around the city for a while so car was reading 90 on the display. First run in 3rd, Tip manual shift mode, shudders around 3,000 then pops into 4th around 4,500rpm, so much for logging, onto the problem.

    Trans is 8 months old, upgraded A clutch pack after rebuild. Trans fluid flushed and confirmed filled to the top. Got some input from Tozo; I mentioned I had pulled the Aux radiators last year; he said trans fluid could be overheating/foaming and not being able to hold enough pressure to keep in gear.

    Any other thoughts on why the fluid would be getting so hot?

    Also for the first time got a trans code, scanned right when I got home; Trans Temp Sensor, reading implausible...hmmm, so that means it's hot I'm guessing, or just odd timing with a wiring issue. Car has full boost and more than enough power, too much apparently.

    Also wonder if the notches we cut in the trimmed trans filter pickup might be adding to the fluid foaming? Don't know really. Thinking a flush with new fluid and filter, trim pickup just a bit this time, see how things look in there.

    Just fishing, thanks for any ideas/input....

  9. #9
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Really don't know...all else seems fine, get the car warm, and bam, screwed up shifting...

    So maybe I've roasted the clutch already, or fluid and pickup aren't playing nice. I've put the hammer down full throttle shifting at redline 30-40 times, must be rough on the trans.
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  10. #10
    Registered User ttboost's Avatar
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    Yep..stock transmission doesn't like anything other than just cruisin. I think there is more load on the transmission in higher gears...however, once it slips once, it's not gonna get better....sorry to hear. Mine started to slip in 4th, then 5th.... Never had a problem in 1st, 2nd or 3rd...
    I suppose it's possible that different clutches fail at different times...just my thoughts...
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  11. #11
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    Got it. I did read a service manual for the ZF trans and there is a spreadsheet to diagnose trans problems. (A clutch) is applied in 4th and 5th only. When you have a problem with shifts in those gears only its the A clutch.

    There is lots of torque applied between that 3-4 shift as the gear ratio is making a big drop to 1:1.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttboost View Post
    Yep..stock transmission doesn't like anything other than just cruisin. I think there is more load on the transmission in higher gears...however, once it slips once, it's not gonna get better....sorry to hear. Mine started to slip in 4th, then 5th.... Never had a problem in 1st, 2nd or 3rd...
    I suppose it's possible that different clutches fail at different times...just my thoughts...

  12. #12
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Well it does have upgraded clutch packs, I'd be surprised they would fail so soon. Driven almost all the time in Tip. I suppose we'll see once we check/replace the fluid/filter.

    My previous trans slipped a few times from 3rd to 4th under full load, same thing, but it was a bit low on fluid. Topped it off and was good for another year.

    I'm also wondering if something is wrong with the TC, slipping some maybe, heating up and bubbling the fluid.

    So what I think is odd, everyday on a short steep hill, 2nd gear, I get what I consider an slip or maybe it's just the TC locking up?; go up the steep part with revs at 2,500 and then about half way up it catches and they go down to 2,000. So is this the TC spinning then locking up, or the clutches spinning then locking up?
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  13. #13
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHall1 View Post
    Got it. I did read a service manual for the ZF trans and there is a spreadsheet to diagnose trans problems. (A clutch) is applied in 4th and 5th only. When you have a problem with shifts in those gears only its the A clutch.

    There is lots of torque applied between that 3-4 shift as the gear ratio is making a big drop to 1:1.
    All my hard shifting has been 1-2, 2-3....2-3 being a tough shift, maybe just toasted that group and 3 can't hold the power anymore. 3-4 is one clutch pack to another then right?
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

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    I'm not sure if it's applicable here or not....

    I drive my RS6 (80k+ miles on her) without no trans issues though I drive in hot and quite harsh traffic condition in Japan.

    I installed ATF temp meter but it never goes over 95C even though driving through (not even "through" because it usually takes an hour to drive only 10miles in Tokyo, hahaha)"stop and go" and "bumper to bumper" situation in Tokyo with outside temp is pretty close to 100F.
    So the temp is not the issue here but upgraded TC?

  15. #15
    Registered User ttboost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coco View Post
    I'm not sure if it's applicable here or not....

    I drive my RS6 (80k+ miles on her) without no trans issues though I drive in hot and quite harsh traffic condition in Japan.

    I installed ATF temp meter but it never goes over 95C even though driving through (not even "through" because it usually takes an hour to drive only 10miles in Tokyo, hahaha)"stop and go" and "bumper to bumper" situation in Tokyo with outside temp is pretty close to 100F.
    So the temp is not the issue here but upgraded TC?
    Is your car modified or all stock? If you are NOT flashed, you really shouldn't have a problem...if you are flashed...it's only a matter of time...
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  16. #16
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Yep, running the extra 125 Torque from the engine is a massive difference. But still, only have 3k on the upgraded trans. Will know a bit more today after new fluid/filter goes in. Filter pickup tube may have been trimmed too much, hoping that's part of it. Will see if the temp sensor code shows again.

    I've done about 30 full throttle runs from 0-60, each time in Tip, letting it usually shift on its own at redline.

    Again, this has only slipped twice, when warm, and 3rd gear full throttle in Tip.
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  17. #17
    Registered User Bigglezworth's Avatar
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    Talk to the trans rebuilder. You're under a 1 year warranty timeframe. They should be able to address your concerns.
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  18. #18
    Registered User TozoM8's Avatar
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    R=C and F clutch
    N=F clutch
    1st= A clutch
    2nd= A and E clutch
    3rd= A and D clutch
    4th= A and B clutch
    5th= B and D clutch
    We are working on figuring it out. Too short filter, lack of trans cooler and/or faulty trans temp sensor (and all that extra muscle could cause the problem.
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