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Thread: Slipping 3rd to 4th when hot...

  1. #37
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Logged TC into work, opens and closes fine according to logs and watching live data...
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  2. #38
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHall1 View Post
    Lou,

    I just noticed this post on rs246.com. Owner was having trans problems and noted that the TC would not lock with trans temp sensor failure. It may be worth lookking into...

    ATF temp sender so the TC wouldn't lock. So, I sent the VB off to 517trans and they rebuilt it. MRC replaced the VB loom and also found the engine oil overfilled by AmD. They also rectified a leak to the turbos with engine in situ which AmD wanted to perform an engine pull.
    The car has been on the dyno without any gearbox slip and a test drive didn't find any slip either, so I'm very happy.
    It'll be painful getting back into the 'loon, I'm sure a manual in the C5 is just wrong, it's great on track but everywhere else I'm sure the tiptro comes out on top.

    Dave, if you get a chance can you direct me to this thread?

    I think the trans slipping started happening about the time the code for trans temp sensor was thrown. Don't think I had any codes before that. I had a bit of shudder, but no codes. Could be that the power is already loosening the clutches up a bit too in worse case scenario.

    Getting the temp sensor wiring inspected next week...if that doesn't do it the damned thing is in the VB, more trans fluid, yay!
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  3. #39
    Registered User ttboost's Avatar
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    Shudder is slipping...death knoll...not gonna get better...it will start in higher gears (more load) and work it's way down. If it's doing it in lower gears now..not good. If you wanna keep it an auto, send it to 517 Transmission. He told me he custom fabs parts to make it stronger and last longer. Don't ask me what parts, but everyone seems to be happy with his work.
    2013 Audi S8

  4. #40
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    Where is the temp sender located? Crap, I didn't save the link....its one of the big posters on the board over there....and it was not in a general trans thread. Lemme think about it a sec...

    ok back...

    down at the bottom of the page. bambam

    http://forum.rs246.com/viewtopic.php...9022&start=330

    Quote Originally Posted by lswing View Post
    Dave, if you get a chance can you direct me to this thread?

    I think the trans slipping started happening about the time the code for trans temp sensor was thrown. Don't think I had any codes before that. I had a bit of shudder, but no codes. Could be that the power is already loosening the clutches up a bit too in worse case scenario.

    Getting the temp sensor wiring inspected next week...if that doesn't do it the damned thing is in the VB, more trans fluid, yay!

  5. #41
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Dave, trans temp sensor is in the valve body, sweet right! We'll check all wiring out to the TCU first. Thanks for the linkage...
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  6. #42
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttboost View Post
    Shudder is slipping...death knoll...not gonna get better...it will start in higher gears (more load) and work it's way down. If it's doing it in lower gears now..not good. If you wanna keep it an auto, send it to 517 Transmission. He told me he custom fabs parts to make it stronger and last longer. Don't ask me what parts, but everyone seems to be happy with his work.
    True to some extent....both of my trans have always shuddered under max torque in 3rd, both have only slipped 3rd to 4th. The previous trans blew itself apart in 2nd gear at 89k and was clunky and done after that. The old trans only slipped gear once, was low on fluid, done 7 months later.

    The new trans has always shuddered some under max load. I've got this thing tuned strong, and just pushed the new trans over the edge by increasing the tune again, is my belief. I could pull a bit of timing and it should hold, but a bummer to not utilize the power. This one is running an upgraded clutch pack and other goodies, so I'd be surprised if it tore apart after 4k and 300 WOT runs...but you never know! I figure one good sign is no clutch material in the pan yet. Never launched, probably about 15 days were I really drove the piss out of it on back country roads.

    As far as custom parts I'm sure 517 has some good stuff. Talking with Tozo he said there is no more room in the A drum for more or bigger clutches than he's already added. This should be stronger than stock, but my power levels are up also.

    Again, always attributed the shudder to clutches slipping some, but the jump in shifts is when they break loose, and could be good for a long time even after that, with any luck!

    Edit; 4-5 are on clutch pack B, so why do you think it would start there and work down to clutch pack A 1-3, if they are separate clutch packs? Unless it's another part that wears? I'll have to look at the trans diagram again. Maybe that jump from pack A to B is a weakness. And yes, auto trans only for me, bad back unfortunately.
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  7. #43
    Registered User 4everRS's Avatar
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    Temp sensor plugs into the valve body. I blame a faulty temp sensor on ruining the tc on my Daytona car. I have to agree with mike on this. Anything you do will be a bandaid, until you do a full r&r.

    A faulty brake switch will cause the tc to stay open as well.
    Avus Silver RS6 - Viper Stage 2 ECU/TCU - Water/Meth Injection - Frozen Rotors - Hbars - clear corners - Hella smoked tails - gutted precats

  8. #44
    Registered User SensoRS6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lswing View Post
    I think I have shudder as well. But it's only under WOT, but no slipping, think just too much power. Think this stuff would help?

  9. #45
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4everRS View Post
    Temp sensor plugs into the valve body. I blame a faulty temp sensor on ruining the tc on my Daytona car. I have to agree with mike on this. Anything you do will be a bandaid, until you do a full r&r.

    A faulty brake switch will cause the tc to stay open as well.
    Thoughts on why the trans temp caused your issue? Just did a full rebuild, $7k every 4k doesn't seem good, might have to tune it down a bit...
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  10. #46
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SensoRS6 View Post
    I think I have shudder as well. But it's only under WOT, but no slipping, think just too much power. Think this stuff would help?
    Might, going to try it. My shudder only at wot at max torque, a few slips so far on this new trans. Old one only slipped once, then was fine for 7 months, go figure...
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  11. #47
    Registered User 4everRS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lswing View Post
    Thoughts on why the trans temp caused your issue? Just did a full rebuild, $7k every 4k doesn't seem good, might have to tune it down a bit...
    The temperature is not as relavent as what that sensor is telling the valve body to do. If it's sensing too hot (faulty) it will keep the tc open more. The sensor is the whole wiring harness at the trans.
    Avus Silver RS6 - Viper Stage 2 ECU/TCU - Water/Meth Injection - Frozen Rotors - Hbars - clear corners - Hella smoked tails - gutted precats

  12. #48
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4everRS View Post
    The temperature is not as relavent as what that sensor is telling the valve body to do. If it's sensing too hot (faulty) it will keep the tc open more. The sensor is the whole wiring harness at the trans.
    Interesting, similar to what could be happening here, TC not closing soon enough allowing too much power in, also overheating fluid. Could have sworn Tozo said sensor was in actual valve body.
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  13. #49
    Registered User 4everRS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lswing View Post
    Interesting, similar to what could be happening here, TC not closing soon enough allowing too much power in, also overheating fluid. Could have sworn Tozo said sensor was in actual valve body.
    It's a sensor wire that sort of wraps in/around the valve body. It's connected to the whole harness and doesn't seem to be removable seperatley. I guess you could call it "in" the valve body, I don't know. I think I have a pic somewhere.
    Avus Silver RS6 - Viper Stage 2 ECU/TCU - Water/Meth Injection - Frozen Rotors - Hbars - clear corners - Hella smoked tails - gutted precats

  14. #50
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    That would be just great, fried TC or trans because trans temp sensor goes bad and doesn't throw CEL....we'll get the sensor resolved in the next few weeks and go from there, thanks!
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  15. #51
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4everRS View Post
    It's a sensor wire that sort of wraps in/around the valve body. It's connected to the whole harness and doesn't seem to be removable seperatley. I guess you could call it "in" the valve body, I don't know. I think I have a pic somewhere.
    Yep, embedded in the wiring then through the VB. Going to pull and replace in a few weeks. Anybody got the part # handy? don't have etka installed right now. I can check with Tozo also, hoping it's just a pan drop and VB can stay in the trans. F@&$cking sensor/wiring, arghhhh.....
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  16. #52
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Just an update from rs246, working out same issue....

    I haven't driven it personally after the fix, but Doug @ MRC said there were no issues with slip post VB loom replacement (this includes the G93 ATF temp sender). The car also sent a fair bit of time on the Dyno trying to troubleshoot a meth kit failure, the Dyno usually exposes gearbox issues.
    There was some top-end slip on WOT but then the sender failed and the TC wouldn't lock up so it was a pretty smooth but slow drive. However, instead of just replacing the loom I opted for betterment and used the chance to have the VB uprated by 517trans. So, the slip issue may have been rectified via better line pressure etc. For reference my 'box is a lowish mileage rebuild but recieving a tad more power than yours - 605PS/853Nm.
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  17. #53
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    Yes, this is good information. I was looking at your logs and noticed that it spends a fair amount of time in regulating phase. I don't know if this is a good thing because the TC is not locked and the clutches are attempting to apply and lock.

    I was going to log the TC in my #1 car today as I drove it to work. Remembered the laptop but not the cable. Doh

    Dammit, I wanted to run some logs because I filled up with a mixture of 1/2 91premium+Aces and 1/2 100 octane pure gas. I was ready to add timing and 2psi boost and have some fun. Dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by lswing View Post
    Just an update from rs246, working out same issue....

    I haven't driven it personally after the fix, but Doug @ MRC said there were no issues with slip post VB loom replacement (this includes the G93 ATF temp sender). The car also sent a fair bit of time on the Dyno trying to troubleshoot a meth kit failure, the Dyno usually exposes gearbox issues.
    There was some top-end slip on WOT but then the sender failed and the TC wouldn't lock up so it was a pretty smooth but slow drive. However, instead of just replacing the loom I opted for betterment and used the chance to have the VB uprated by 517trans. So, the slip issue may have been rectified via better line pressure etc. For reference my 'box is a lowish mileage rebuild but recieving a tad more power than yours - 605PS/853Nm.

  18. #54
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
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    Sounds like a nice fuel mix there, better get to use on it! Would like to see a TC log if you get a chance. Mine is only at 50% throttle, but is does seem to stay in regulating for a while. Yep some good info from these fellas, here's another one. I'll know more in a few weeks once Temp sensor/sender is fixed.

    The temp sender could be a red herring, although, if your TC is locking late, that ain't good either. Having too much engine speed in viscous mode then only to lock up would put a lot through the clutches in one hit.
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

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