Audi A3 8v (MQB) - RS3

[Joker]

If you really want to know how powerful the next RS3 will be then wait to see what Mercedes and BMW bring us with their AMG and M models, Audi don't offer more than is needed to remain competitive, none of them now. So with this I believe The Pretender is right with his prediction of 100kg less and 360-380hp tops, the only place we differ is the engine under the hood because I just don't see a 2L engine in there no matter how many turbos it has.

[The Pretender]

Pretender, I note that the Audi A3 Sedan concept from last year had a five with 400 bhp. Of course, that doesn't mean it will make production. As you suggest, a 360 bhp - 100 kg = Huge grin.

That is a paper number.

[PANZER]

But it's a very heavy engine, so it's a S3 with 40 Kg more up front because of the engine.
The 5 cylinder only have a future IMHO if Audi drop the iron cylinder block, and change to something much lighter.

The 2.5TFSI already have atleast the crankcase made from compacted graphite iron (CGI) by Sintercast technology some sources says the whole block is CGI.
Its a first for petrol engines the advantages of CGI is that its stronger lighter more durable than grey cast iron and aluminium.

http://www.sintercast.com/

[tailpipe]

That is a paper number.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df-yU...ure=plpp_video

720 bhp from 2.5-litre five cylinder engine. That's a real number. Based on this, 400 bhp would easy.

Panzer,

At present, the 2.5-litre five has a an engine block made from vermicular-graphite cast iron providing 450 N/mm2 of tensile strength. While this solution is lighter than ordinary cast iron, it's still very heavy. The entire engine weighs more than the previous narrow V6 3.2 litre unit used in previous top-end Golfs. If Audi were to give the 2.5-litre five a die-cast aluminium engine block - which the 2.0-litre EA888 has just received, then I suspect that the weight saving would be significant.

[JavierNuvolari]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df-yU...ure=plpp_video

720 bhp from 2.5-litre five cylinder engine. That's a real number. Based on this, 400 bhp would easy.

Panzer,

At present, the 2.5-litre five has a an engine block made from vermicular-graphite cast iron providing 450 N/mm2 of tensile strength. While this solution is lighter than ordinary cast iron, it's still very heavy. The entire engine weighs more than the previous narrow V6 3.2 litre unit used in previous top-end Golfs. If Audi were to give the 2.5-litre five a die-cast aluminium engine block - which the 2.0-litre EA888 has just received, then I suspect that the weight saving would be significant.

You just made my day. Fantastic video, fire breathing R5 FTW!

[The Pretender]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df-yU...ure=plpp_video

720 bhp from 2.5-litre five cylinder engine. That's a real number. Based on this, 400 bhp would easy.

That engine have nothing to do with a TT RS engine.
It is a cut in half V10 with a oversized turbo.
There are even pictures of it when in proces of doing that.

[The Pretender]

Some quotes from other forums:

"With the 2.5TFSI Bi Turbo expected to produce 430PS then we should see over 500PS from the 3.0 bi-TFSI BiTurbo?"

"Acccording to Audi's LRR reviews it has passed design constraints and has been built and tested and is due to be launched in late 2013?"

[The Pretender]

Not that i think a Bi-Turbo 5 cylinder will work though.
But it could be a electric Bi-Turbo like we see with the TDI's

[ZeroCool]

electric turbo is the future IMO..

[PANZER]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df-yU...ure=plpp_video

720 bhp from 2.5-litre five cylinder engine. That's a real number. Based on this, 400 bhp would easy.

Panzer,

At present, the 2.5-litre five has a an engine block made from vermicular-graphite cast iron providing 450 N/mm2 of tensile strength. While this solution is lighter than ordinary cast iron, it's still very heavy. The entire engine weighs more than the previous narrow V6 3.2 litre unit used in previous top-end Golfs. If Audi were to give the 2.5-litre five a die-cast aluminium engine block - which the 2.0-litre EA888 has just received, then I suspect that the weight saving would be significant.

What i meant with my post that its a pretty new casting technique which could be used to lower the weight if they make the block thinner not sure if the material in its self is lighter.
A aluminium block could possible make the engine lighter but it could also make engine weaker ,and from which source of info did you get that the 2.0 EA888 engine have a aluminium block? i have read that it has a ordinary Grey cast iron block.

I agree that the 2.5TFSI should weight less than the 3.2 VR6 but what is the 3.2 VR6 weight? And are they spec with the same components generator,ac compressor,servo pump ect? and remember that the 2.5TFSI has a turbo to but of course also 1 cyl less.
And compacted graphite iron is the same thing as vermicular-graphite cast iron but you maybe already know that?

[tailpipe]

What i meant with my post that its a pretty new casting technique which could be used to lower the weight if they make the block thinner not sure if the material in its self is lighter.
A aluminium block could possible make the engine lighter but it could also make engine weaker ,and from which source of info did you get that the 2.0 EA888 engine have a aluminium block? i have read that it has a ordinary Grey cast iron block.

I agree that the 2.5TFSI should weight less than the 3.2 VR6 but what is the 3.2 VR6 weight? And are they spec with the same components generator,ac compressor,servo pump ect? and remember that the 2.5TFSI has a turbo to but of course also 1 cyl less. And compacted graphite iron is the same thing as vermicular-graphite cast iron but you maybe already know that?

Panzer,

I am wrong. The EA211 has a cast aluminium engine block. The EA888 Gen. 3 still has a cast iron one. Apologies. The weight reduction comes from reducing the wall thickness to 3 mm (whereas other competitors who still use cast iron blocks are at about 5-6 mm, i.e double the weight. Structural integrity is maintained through a new engine casting technique (upright pouring instead of flat pouring).

See attached presentation on VW Group engine strategy:

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/m...are/18TFSI.pdf

http://www.cargroup.org/assets/speak...idt_oliver.pdf

I still think there is scope to reduce weight of inline five. But will Audi spend what is needed to do it?

[PANZER]

Panzer,

I am wrong. The EA211 has a cast aluminium engine block. The EA888 Gen. 3 still has a cast iron one. Apologies. The weight reduction comes from reducing the wall thickness to 3 mm (whereas other competitors who still use cast iron blocks are at about 5-6 mm, i.e double the weight. Structural integrity is maintained through a new engine casting technique (upright pouring instead of flat pouring).

See attached presentation on VW Group engine strategy:

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/m...are/18TFSI.pdf

http://www.cargroup.org/assets/speak...idt_oliver.pdf

I still think there is scope to reduce weight of inline five. But will Audi spend what is needed to do it?

Okay i thougt so.
Yeah it would be good if they can reduce the weight the five is a nice engine.

I find it a little funny that they have added port injection on the EA888 like Toyota has on their direct injecton engines i bet its because the carbon build up issue on the intake valves.
BMW has only direct injectors in their engines i have not heard that they have any problems with carbon build up issue on the intake valves maybe they use a better designed crankcase ventilation.