The next Audi RS6 and RS7 (2013/14)

[kilian tuning]

Sorry, in Dutch...that noise...http://www.telegraaf.nl/autovisie/21...udi_RS6__.html

[YlwBeast]

TOAvusRS6 and DHall1:

I share your sentiments exactly! I too have been loyal to the brand and have owned 10 different Audis in the last 14 years including 2001 S4 Avant, C5 RS6 (imola yellow), B7 RS4, A8, R8 and recently 2013 S6. I also agree with George that the bean counters have to justify the cost of which model will give the best return, but there is no denying that the C5 RS6 along with other specific models (A6/S4, B5 S4 to name a few) paved the way for the success that the Audi brand currently has in the US. I realize that for AoA, the R8 is the top dog of the brand and though it may trump the RS6, the RS6 has established a serious brand loyalty. It is this brand loyalty that will assist Audi's mission of increase volume sales in the US.

That being said, and no disrespect to all the other enthusiasts that think that half a loaf is better than no loaf at all, the RS7 may prove to be a worthy vehicle for the US and the brand. But with the other premium brands already possessing sportbacks (e.g. MB CLS 63, Panamera Turbo S), why add another entry to that niche? And why vacate a niche that Audi has dominated?

I recently took delivery of a 2013 S6, don't get me wrong, really nice car and definitely reminds me of the 2003 RS6, but it still is not an RS6. Driving down the road, the average person will not be able to distinguish between A6 and S6. Of all of the other Audis that I have had, I still possess the 2001 S4 Avant because it is an avant. So, my preference IS the RS6 avant, but most certainly wouldn't deny the 2014 RS6 Sedan if it came to the US. I agree with DHall1, MBUSA is going to capitalize by introducing the 2014 E63 AMG in both Sedan and Estate in AWD!!! Though I am not a MB fan per se, I most definitely will take a look when they come out. I truly hope for Audi's sake these aren't as successful (sorry MB).

Btw,for all those who are true fans of the A7 body style and recently took an S7, how pissed off are they, knowing that the RS7 is on the horizon? How many S7s will sit on dealer lots because those interested will wait for the RS7? Time will tell...

[ZCD2.7T]

No worries... ...

Thanks for that clip Quisha.

Care to give us an idea of the true acceleration figures for the new RS6/7? Not the official numbers - the true numbers! ;-)

[kilian tuning]

...when in manual it wont change gears when hitting the rev limiter, which i think is nice...

[bmwade]

Thanks for that clip Quisha.

Care to give us an idea of the true acceleration figures for the new RS6/7? Not the official numbers - the true numbers! ;-)

And the true top speed? And the true potential of the engine? Clearly y'all left a lot of room in the C6, interested how much is left for extraction in the V8. MTM has done wonders with the S6/7. If the RS has similar room for derestriction then that would make the RS7 slightly more appealing...actually +650hp would be the only temptation of the RS7.

[kip]

0-315 km/h!
Looking at the clock:
0-100 4s
0-200 13s
0-300 42s

[hdtomi]

The test with pictures and video!

http://www.autoblog.nl/nieuws/audi-r...en-video-58593
http://www.abhd.nl/video/audi-rs6-avant-c7/

[kip]

Why are they all in Dutch???? Wheres google speak translate?

[audi_ch]

This acceleration times are a bit of a disapointement,
specialy the 42 secs 0-300 kmh, witch are behind of the competition e63 pp or m5 f10. Well lets see some more results

[kip]

[Dr99]

Autoblog gets a crack at it: http://www.autoblog.com/2013/04/24/2...avant-w-video/

[Erik]

"They tell me that the RS7 will essentially be identical to this setup, and weigh 110 pounds less..." ----- What's not to like? Driving, you'll never see the rear end anyway

[ZCD2.7T]

Autoblog gets a crack at it: http://www.autoblog.com/2013/04/24/2...avant-w-video/

The exhaust sounds absolutely ridiculous, in a good way! Wow.

[The RS6]

"They tell me that the RS7 will essentially be identical to this setup, and weigh 110 pounds less..." ----- What's not to like? Driving, you'll never see the rear end anyway

Unless you drive an M5

[DHall1]

I have been known to be outspoken from time to time. Really.

What does a C5 RS6 owner want in a future vehicle? Subjective but having owned my RS6 from 22k miles I think I can answer that question. Is it a daily, is it a weekend warrior, is it the garage queen ect, ect. My RS6 #1 is more of a garage queen but the miles are just over 45k today.

The RS6 may be one of many vehicles for most owners. It could be the daily for the uber rich with 3 GT3 RSs sitting in the garage or the garage queen for someone like me. But then what do I drive every day? Well it was a AMG for the last 5 years. See a trend here?

I begged for years for any Avant S line model to deaf ears. Begged, joined AoA club, went to local chapter drives, ect. AoA is deaf to the needs.

As the AMG approached 110k miles I wanted something else but nothing could fill that void. I drove lots of vehicles before finally reaching the conclusion of finding and making the RS6 #2 purchase. So the garage queen RS is packed away in the climate controlled garage while I drive my "new" C5 RS6 with 35k miles every day.

Sorry AoA you lost a sale. S6 is too soft, S4 is ok but lacks raw power, S8 is just too much money for a daily driver and its soft. S7 and RS7 just plain lack the look. TTRS is too small and the RS5 is a n/a which I will not own. So then it was RS6 #2 for me and I will enjoy putting the miles on my 35k car for the next 5 years or so.

And my wife wants a new vehicle soon. She likes the Audi line but guess what?? I cant find a Q5 w/3.0T engine within 400 miles of Phoenix to even test drive. WTF? Every dealer is telling me to put a deposit, put a deposit because we cant get one. WTF? I cant even find one to test drive.

A great bit of market planning there.

I'm not outspokenly critical of Audi of America's choices and I get how that might look like PR. Rather, I'm regularly in contact with their staff, aware of their level of enthusiasm and their challenges that they face. I count many of them as personal friends and acquaintences. Given the genuinely pro nature of all of that, I can see how that might sound like PR… particularly to those who are more negative on the subject. All that being said, I'm pretty confident I remain objective… but I think that's natural on both counts. It may sound like PR but I think most objective viewers when considering the information (as it is available to them and I get plenty) would be more positive.




I know there's a vocal group who wants it. That's what Audi is wrestling with now. Is that group enough? Just because they're vocal doesn't mean enough cars will move. And, with RS 7 in bound this year, you can write off those who want latest greatest. As you mention, the NA V8 is old news to some really inside baseball. The 4.0 TFSI is more exciting to many who've never driven any of these cars and that will hurt the RS 4 Avants case because some of those sales (hard to measure) will go to RS 7.



Just to be clear, we're talking apples and oranges between RS 4 Avant and RS 6 Avant. With RS 4, body is sold in USA and engine/drivetrain are homologated. These are HUGE savings should they choose to bring it. Not only is RS 6 already very expensive, but the A6 Avant is NOT in market and thus would push this car MUCH higher than RS 7 in price. Given they're functionally and dynamically pretty much identical cars, what's the point then? Yes, they're stylistically different, but would you buy an RS 6 over an RS 7 that is $10-$20K (purely guessing) cheaper? I think most wouldn't. Looking at the numbers on the E-Class wagon and thus AMG, I've been told Audi is pretty convinced MB is losing money on that endeavour. Audi would rather do a car like RS 7 with a wider audience and a solid business case.



In the case of allroad, I'd offer you this. A4 Avant was already homologated but in EVERY example of wagons selling next to sport utility wagons (Outback, V70/XC70, etc.) the sport utility wagon outsells wagon by a large margin. Audi kept the body style in market by changing it to allroad product and has left options open for RS 4 as a result. Again, BMW and Mercedes have larger volumes in America with which they can retain these models more readily.



4.0 TFSI doesn't fit B-chassis. I wish it did. That'd be awesome. Their engine manager for that engine told me first hand that it doesn't fit. They even have to drop an intake in order to make it fit the C-chassis. A biturbo V6 was considered back in the B7 development but they went with 4.2 high-rev and likely that's for two reasons. First, it helps volumes for engine also used in R8. Second, it offers torque and sound befitting an RS. 3.0 supercharged is not suitable for quattro GmbH power delivery.

I've spent time in all of these cars. A chipped S-car will walk a stock RS car as Chris Harris demonstrated. Even still, the experience is different. The 3.0 TFSI will never touch the 4.2 FSI high-rev in sound. Stock for stock, it's also not as powerful and when you start chipping then you can possibly run into warranty issues. To me the 4.2 high-rev RS-cars are for the people who want to buy a car and just enjoy it… or have the budget for a big build like an APR supercharger. The 3.0 TFSI S-cars and the like are more the B5 S4 crowd - people who want a performance bargain. They're two different customers.



Two things here. First, they couldn't do Avants for just S-models because they'd need the volume of the A-cars to make a new bodystyle work… or pricing would go much higher. Already my take on the A6 allroad is that it would price in at S6 sedan or above money with a lesser engine… say 3.0 TDI (US Spec, not Bi-TDI because it's not homologated) or 3.0 TFSI. How many Audi customers then go, "Well hell, I can get the S6 sedan cheaper than the allroad. I'm getting S6!" This is the reality they face.

Sorry for the long-winded responses guys. I want to be thorough. I haven't read all of this thread, but I've read enough that I wanted to make sure an un-represented perspective was communicated.

[DHall1]

Bottom line? I'm not done with my RS6 by a long shot. Audi you spoiled us and nothing in the current lineup appleals because it is no better than the slightly modified C5 RS6. So many of us are looking to buy another Audi and too many offerings are weak when you have a RS6 in the garage. Heck, I cant even test drive a Q5 3.0T in the entire state of AZ.

So we can have these other forum or media people come on and say how they have lunch with Audi staff and buy them Christmas presents. Big deal. The proof is in the puddin here folks. Oh they are listening. BS. AoA is busy around the board table counting money from the Mexico factories pumping out cheap A4 knockoffs.

[hahnmgh63]

But wait Dave. Not sure if you knew this but late this year Audi is supposed to introduce a Q5 version with the same 3.0 TDI that is in the Q7, Tourag, and Cayenne. It should be a fuel miser when needed and a torque monster when needed in the Q5 chassis. 240bhp and 406 lb/ft of TQ. And just wait, MTM can bump it to 285bhp/479lb/ft or 300bhp/479lb/ft. They limit the TQ to 650NM as they say the tranny won't last long past that. I'm seriously thinking about it as a daily driver.

[DHall1]

I know it looks promising but I can't find a Q5 supercharged to even test drive. It's more for the wife because I have my daily beast finally.

But wait Dave. Not sure if you knew this but late this year Audi is supposed to introduce a Q5 version with the same 3.0 TDI that is in the Q7, Tourag, and Cayenne. It should be a fuel miser when needed and a torque monster when needed in the Q5 chassis. 240bhp and 406 lb/ft of TQ. And just wait, MTM can bump it to 285bhp/479lb/ft or 300bhp/479lb/ft. They limit the TQ to 650NM as they say the tranny won't last long past that. I'm seriously thinking about it as a daily driver.