Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 19 to 36 of 37

Thread: external/transfer fuel pump on my RS6 died after 68k miles-any suggestions?

  1. #19
    Registered User kday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    398
    Changing the regulator will require a reflash, but I don't think you need to do this to change the pump. As long as the new pump has equal or greater flow characteristics, it will work the same as the old one. It might be louder or less efficient, but unless the fuel lines (particularly the return line) are so small that the regulator can't bypass enough fuel to keep the pressure delta at 4 bar, a stronger pump won't be a problem. And in that case you would just run rich, which is by far the less severe error.

    That being said, I don't think the cost savings are worth it, unless you are looking for a science project.

  2. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Kildeer, IL
    Posts
    495
    looks like i'm also getting a bunch of misfire and lean codes -

    the only problem is that i have not gotten any of the -

    17473 - Fuel Pressure Regulation
    P1065 - 008 - Regulation Discrepancy

    codes....

    do you guys think that my transfer pump is going too?

    i also get the
    "It went from running fine to hesitation when pressing the accelerator. If you press the pedal, it will act like it's dying, but if you ramp up the speed slowly, it will keep going faster and faster. Interesting, the car runs even with a dead fuel pump."

    if the car is warmed up, the car runs fine.... but, the car runs on safe mode in my opnion. no power under a certain load.

    IDEAS?
    2003 RS6 - forsale

  3. #21
    Registered User ramin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Highlands Ranch, Colorado
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by terrytcl View Post
    looks like i'm also getting a bunch of misfire and lean codes -

    the only problem is that i have not gotten any of the -

    17473 - Fuel Pressure Regulation
    P1065 - 008 - Regulation Discrepancy

    codes....

    do you guys think that my transfer pump is going too?

    i also get the
    "It went from running fine to hesitation when pressing the accelerator. If you press the pedal, it will act like it's dying, but if you ramp up the speed slowly, it will keep going faster and faster. Interesting, the car runs even with a dead fuel pump."

    if the car is warmed up, the car runs fine.... but, the car runs on safe mode in my opnion. no power under a certain load.

    IDEAS?

    My car runs runs fine unless I press the gas pedal. It idles fine when warmed up but still has the same issue when pressing the pedal.

    One quick test is take out the fuse (I think 28) and see how if it runs any differently. Mine runs the same when the fuse is out.

    A second slightly more difficult test is to unplug the transfer pump and see if it changes the issue. BUT, be super careful as the plug connection is very fragile. Alternatively, you can just check the voltage at the transfer pump without unplugging the wire. If the pump is getting 9-10V and not vibrating, it's not working. The voltage starts at battery level when you start the engine for about 1 sec and then drops to 9.xV until you are under heavy acceleration.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    2003 Audi RS6 with APR exhaust and APR ECU stage 1; Mugello Blue

  4. #22
    Registered User ramin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Highlands Ranch, Colorado
    Posts
    20

    Done installing the 044 Bosch fuel pump, so far so good :)

    It looks like the experiment has paid off I only replaced the external fuel pump with the Bosch 044 pump that puts out 5 bars instead of the 4 bars by the stock pump. Didn't change the tune, fuel regulator, etc.

    The beast runs great. Seems like much less hesitation and smoother than the stock pump before it went out. But the stock pump may have been slowly dying over time.

    It's a bit noisier than the stock, but nothing you can really hear over the exhaust tone anyway.

    The Bosch pump is a bit thicker but is a bit shorter. I had to get the adapters from the UK (over ebay) which took a while. Got the pump from Amazon, just because of the ease of returning if there were issues.

    The wiring was simple (brown wire is negative so goes to the blue plug on the new pump and red/black goes to the red port on the new pump). I used some cut up old bicycle tires to make up the size difference between the stock pump (with its rubber sleeve) in the existing mount.

    I had to pay a visit to the local ACE to get some stainless steel nuts and bolts. I ended up changing the bolt and nut on the strap style stock mount because the stock screw had fused with the bolt and I had to cut it off (carefully) with Dremel. I also had to get some stop nuts for the electric connectors on the new pump (one 5mm and one 6mm). The two fuel connectors I got (for each end of the new pump) are made of aircraft aluminum and can be found at:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/150660859718...84.m1497.l2649

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/170694342501...84.m1497.l2649

    Also, added a couple of zip ties for safety. However, with the plugs at the end and the existing strap mount, the new pump doesn't have that much room to move and fall off any way. I didn't even have to change anything on the fuel hoses either (but don't remember if i had to change anything when I replaced the fuel filter last time).

    I think the hardest part was just figuring out what connectors to use and how to tighten the new pump in the old strap. I finished the work at 3 am and forgot to take pictures. I will take pictures and post next time I get the car up on the lift.

    I will report back if anything goes wrong, but so far 50 miles have flown by with no issues, just a reminder how much fun these cars are to drive. Having seen the weak connector design on the stock fuel pump (which is basically an L-shaped connector with really thin connectors surrounded by thin plastic), I am glad I moved away from the stock pump, even though it took a while to gather the parts and install.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    2003 Audi RS6 with APR exhaust and APR ECU stage 1; Mugello Blue

  5. #23
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Eugene, OR, again...
    Posts
    4,760
    Glad to hear it, sounds like a good project...pics or it didn't happen
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  6. #24
    Registered User ramin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Highlands Ranch, Colorado
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by lswing View Post
    Glad to hear it, sounds like a good project...pics or it didn't happen
    Sorry for the delay. I just took pictures of the stock vs. Bosch 044 pump side by side. Looking at the stock pump on the bottom, the gray rubber sleeve on the right slides over the stock pump. The two black plastic sleeves on the left go over the stock pump (with the rubber sleeve) to mount it into the strap that holds the stock pump in place. I just cut up an old bicycle tire and wrapped it around the new pump to make the fit snug in the straps.

    I will take pictures of the installed pump next time I get the car on the lift.

    I have driven 300 miles so far with no issues/codes. The car is actually much more responsive (indicating that my stock pump must have been going downhill for a period of time).

    Take a look at the picture of the broken stock connector on the right (white plastic with super thin connectors embedded). It gives you an idea of how fragile the connectors are relative to the sturdy Bosch connector posts. That was one reason I wanted to give the Bosch pump a try even without changing the fuel pressure valve or recoding the computer. I suspect the stock pump was probably not getting a good connection for a while which burned it out over time.

    The responsiveness alone makes the project worth it. The new pump seems a bit noisier if you are standing outside next to it; otherwise, I can't really hear it.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_2405.jpg 
Views:	512 
Size:	63.1 KB 
ID:	12932Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_2406.jpg 
Views:	484 
Size:	30.4 KB 
ID:	12933
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    2003 Audi RS6 with APR exhaust and APR ECU stage 1; Mugello Blue

  7. #25
    Registered User ramin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Highlands Ranch, Colorado
    Posts
    20
    Finally got the car back on the lift. Here are a couple of pictures showing the Bosch fuel pump installed. As you will note, I used a lot of zip ties. Also used a piece of old bicycle tire to make up for the diameter difference between the OEM strap and narrower pump. It almost fits perfectly (length-wise) in the existing cavity formed by the fuel tank and body.

    I have driven it 1,800 miles with the Bosch pump (without changing the regulator) and have had no issues whatsoever. In fact, the responsiveness is noticeably better (probably due to the original pump not having been at its tip-top shape due to electrical connector weakness).




    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2012-11-06 16.39.12.jpg 
Views:	463 
Size:	102.2 KB 
ID:	13146Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2012-11-06 16.39.19.jpg 
Views:	556 
Size:	89.2 KB 
ID:	13147
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    2003 Audi RS6 with APR exhaust and APR ECU stage 1; Mugello Blue

  8. #26
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Eugene, OR, again...
    Posts
    4,760
    Looks like I might go this direction. Dig up some more hardware and mounting brackets and should be good to go.

    Edit; looks like the eBay sight below does not ship to US, so looking at this, and just need to find the other end piece. http://autofittings-uk.com/shop/en/b...-barb-kit.html

    Adapter fittings for fuel lines, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1710008013...MakeTrack=true

    Bosch 044 from Amazon, http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-61944-Universal-Inline-Fuel/dp/B003WL73OK
    Last edited by lswing; March 1st, 2016 at 19:49.
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  9. #27
    Registered User hahnmgh63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Roy, WA
    Posts
    3,303
    2003 White RS6 2013 Midnight Blue S5
    2013 Daytona RS5 2x944 Turbo's 1974 911 w/'91 3.6ltr motor
    Roy, WA

  10. #28
    Registered User Bigglezworth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Cowtown, AB
    Posts
    2,232
    Best deal going hands down and where I purchased a pair from back in January....
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Bosc...FWPXyb&vxp=mtr
    '02 S6 Avant Silver - Pokey | Carbon Black/Ebony RS6 w/ stuff - darn quick | '03 Daytona Grey/Ebony RS6 w/ more stuff - quicker yet | '91 NSX CDN issue with 6spd & BBSC - quicker yet and then some | '87 Buick GNX OEM clone w/ lots of stuff - quickest hands down

  11. #29
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Eugene, OR, again...
    Posts
    4,760
    Hot damn, good prices there. I've read many articles saying those pumps are commonly knocked off in China, authentic packaging and all. Seller rating looks good though. I suppose if it's a fake one and fails then it's only another hour to swap a new one in.

    Edit; you find a NA source for the connectors? I guess they are more common in Europe, seems almost all adapters are sold from over seas.

    Edit 2; Never mind, just ordered as bethridg had linked.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/121851679972...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/151991398523...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
    Last edited by lswing; March 2nd, 2016 at 16:57.
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  12. #30
    Registered User Bigglezworth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Cowtown, AB
    Posts
    2,232
    The 'knock offs' say "Made in Germany". The authentic are stamped "Czech Republic".
    '02 S6 Avant Silver - Pokey | Carbon Black/Ebony RS6 w/ stuff - darn quick | '03 Daytona Grey/Ebony RS6 w/ more stuff - quicker yet | '91 NSX CDN issue with 6spd & BBSC - quicker yet and then some | '87 Buick GNX OEM clone w/ lots of stuff - quickest hands down

  13. #31
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Eugene, OR, again...
    Posts
    4,760
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigglezworth View Post
    The 'knock offs' say "Made in Germany". The authentic are stamped "Czech Republic".
    Pretty sure you've got a knock off there. They say the new China ones also say Czech. Look at the etching/printing on your pump, notice the quality being poor compared to this one below. You should also be missing the blue pen dot, and worse case non-helicoil threading on the insert side. Who knows really, lots of forum articles on these things.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/111920992046
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  14. #32
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Eugene, OR, again...
    Posts
    4,760
    I'll have an Amazon shipped 044 here in a few days. Will report back with pics and authenticity impressions.

    So do you use a bit of thread lock or sealant for the adapter pieces that screw into the inlet and outlet?
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  15. #33
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Eugene, OR, again...
    Posts
    4,760
    044 from Amazon, looks legit per some threads and comparisons with the knockoffs. Consensus was you can run a knockoff, but some have failed early. Here are details for a legit pump.

    Packaging plastic is crimped Bosch.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	FullSizeRender.jpg 
Views:	277 
Size:	126.6 KB 
ID:	17174

    Clean printed label, not pixelated, made in Czech.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	FullSizeRender[1].jpg 
Views:	221 
Size:	127.2 KB 
ID:	17175

    Crimped area marked with pen. Also note + and - symbols are up at an angle and very clean. Fakes will not have crimp marks and symbols are on the flat part of the top.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0997.JPG 
Views:	228 
Size:	104.4 KB 
ID:	17176

    Clean stamped, not roughly engraved, also confirms Czech build location.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0998.JPG 
Views:	219 
Size:	108.2 KB 
ID:	17177

    Big deal here, some fakes do not have the helicoil insert shown, and are also a smaller diameter. This has helicoil insert for strength, and full size for max fuel flow.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0999.JPG 
Views:	262 
Size:	102.1 KB 
ID:	17178

    Got the wiring, adapters, and fuel line. Going to wire up and have the shop put in next week. Can anyone confirm using a thread-lock or sealant for the adapter threads into the pump?
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

  16. #34
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    chicago, milwaukee area
    Posts
    329
    Good link. If mine turns out to be fake I'll grab one from here. First time, in the description, I've seen anyone note "minimum current 12 volts". It's noted in multiple places. Think this matters?

  17. #35
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Evil Empire
    Posts
    466
    Quote Originally Posted by Fastguy View Post
    Good link. If mine turns out to be fake I'll grab one from here. First time, in the description, I've seen anyone note "minimum current 12 volts". It's noted in multiple places. Think this matters?
    That's a weird statement in itself, because direct current (DC) is measured in amps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_current
    My bet is that's someone not very intelligent decided to put it in a description and others just copy-pasted it away.
    I understand your concern, but I'll repeat myself that I've had a car with fuel controller and a 044. Plus, I know a few others running it without any issues.

    And, well, frankly, an ordinary "dumb" fuel pump (which 044 surely is!) should start on voltages as low as couple of volts. It will just flow way less. Which exactly is the reason why audi engineers implemented the whole fuel controller thing. Check out this link (it's the first one google came up with when I tried to find a voltage chart): http://www.enginebasics.com/Engine%2...%20Basics.html

    And this picture describes the whole situation pretty accurately: http://www.enginebasics.com/Engine%2...20Pump%206.jpg
    While you theoretically will get more flow by bypassing the controller, there can be negative consequences: fuel heat-up, noise, spontaneous alternator voltage fluctuations potentially could also result in fuel pressure variation. Bottom line is: do not try to outsmart factory engineers when it's not absolutely necessary.

  18. #36
    Registered User lswing's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Eugene, OR, again...
    Posts
    4,760
    Also, the Extras page in my website has documentation on how the fuel controller works in general. It's the Self Study Guide.
    Ace/Edge TC - Tozo Trans - MTM TCU - REVO/ME7 tune - Wagner IC's w/ Venair Hoses - Aux Radiator delete - Hotchkis Sways - Hawk HPS Pads - Koni Sport Struts - Scroll KO4 Turbos - Devil's Own WM - 421whp/452wtq on Mustang Dyno - http://www.audirssix.com

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •