Turbo Time- Ooooff

[ben916]

Holy shit! I didn't even think of that....looks pretty plausible. Scary.

MAF guide connector pieces that have melted due to heat...

[yokust]

I highly doubt it would be carbon, carbon will not metal like weight. And carbon would get crushed in a turbo very fast.

Granted carbon chunks like that will leave horrible damage in the turbo it will not jam it.

[MaxRS6]

Holy shit! I didn't even think of that....looks pretty plausible. Scary.

They look like carbon build up pieces from the valves.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2574/...1fc8c6e6_o.jpg

Any suggestions? It is definitely a metal piece as I have it in hand..

About a year ago, we had a good look at the valves as they had it torn apart and they all looked relatively very clean (considering it had about 125K on the odometer) at that time..

I certainly appreciate everyone's input and time

[hahnmgh63]

I am anal about my fuel (only Chevron or Shell), and yes I do use Aces IV. I threaded my new toy really cool color monitor flexibley extension camera up the exhaust manifold (Turbos are still off) and looked at my exhaust ports and the back of the exhaust valves head an seats were real clean. Carbon black color but no buildup. I only looked at one exhaust valve on each bank but I would expect them all to look the same, plugs all look identically normal. I would imagine most modern engines run pretty clean but I know fuel can make a huge difference in clean burn. Most fuels you buy are 96~98 the same but that 2~4% difference of proprietary additives can make a world of difference.

[MaxRS6]

MAF guide connector pieces that have melted due to heat...

Thanks Ben---LOL. My first thought was the techs had dropped something down the ol rabbit hole

[MaxRS6]

I am anal about my fuel (only Chevron or Shell), and yes I do use Aces IV. I threaded my new toy really cool color monitor flexibley extension camera up the exhaust manifold (Turbos are still off) and looked at my exhaust ports and the back of the exhaust valves head an seats were real clean. Carbon black color but no buildup. I only looked at one exhaust valve on each bank but I would expect them all to look the same, plugs all look identically normal. I would imagine most modern engines run pretty clean but I know fuel can make a huge difference in clean burn. Most fuels you buy are 96~98 the same but that 2~4% difference of proprietary additives can make a world of difference.

I utilize Shell 93 approximately 95% of the time, and add Aces a lot of the time (albeit not all the time).

[hahnmgh63]

Try a magnet on it and see if it has iron at least?

[MaxRS6]

Try a magnet on it and see if it has iron at least?

Magnet doesn't attract it as I just gave it a try..It does have some silver under it where it looks like the black portion is scratched. The black portion looks and feels more like a coat of paint than carbon from these untrained eyes. I tried to break off a small portion at the tip but it is vedy robust (evident by the turbo blades not crushing it as it was jammed in the blade).

[hahnmgh63]

Wouldn't be from the MAF if it was on the Turbine side. 1. Something made it through the engine (Might not be a bad idea to do a compression check, at least on that bank to confirm there is no exhaust vavle damage. 2. You looked at the valves a year ago? Were the exhaust manifolds off? If so, maybe something was dropped/left in a exhaust port or exhaust manifold then.
Is it real brittle or will it bend like aluminum?

[MaxRS6]

^ It certainly is not brittle, and is very sturdy. It doesn't bend with my hands and seems like it would take a lot of force to bend. I was also able to scratch up another piece of metal using the tip of this foreign object.

The Audi dealership said they did a compression test and it all came out good. I'll ask my current tech to do the same to double check..

Again, I appreciate everyone's input as I try to get this horse up off its' side..

[yokust]

Here is very simple solution

Hit it with hammer.

Carbon will crush, metal will deform

[MaxRS6]

Did the hammer thing and it deformed into almost flat..It definitely bends and doesn't crush.

[ben916]

What soft metal is used in the Cosworth 4.2 engine?

Might be worth it to use a bore-scope to look at your cylinder head - since the engine is out anyway...

[DHall1]

+1

Items could have been left in the intake during a prev repair. What was done to the car before the turbo went bad? It would not have taken long...

Could be turbine wheel but you should see damage even from the outside. Spinning at 20k it would look like a small war inside that turbo.

Wouldn't be from the MAF if it was on the Turbine side. 1. Something made it through the engine (Might not be a bad idea to do a compression check, at least on that bank to confirm there is no exhaust vavle damage. 2. You looked at the valves a year ago? Were the exhaust manifolds off? If so, maybe something was dropped/left in a exhaust port or exhaust manifold then.
Is it real brittle or will it bend like aluminum?

[MaxRS6]

^ Timing Belt service was done when I had the timing belt roller bolt break issue just prior to this issue.

It was about a week after they gave it back to me when the turbo died. I had not driven the car much after the TB job. Then on my first relatively long drive, is when it went dead. The audi dealership (Parker Audi/Little Rock) even gave it back to me a couple of times (with the dead turbo) stating it is was running well- when in fact it was still producing zero boost- the flipping idiots! I turned it around within a block of the dealership to tell them it was still not right. Here are a couple snipits of emails the Service Manager sent me as they worked on it:

When I first took it in for the turbo issue- they had it for a couple of days and I received this email from the service manager:

"We have your car back together. We first thought that the timing was off due to the codes and checked that and all was good. Found that the upper plenum cover was not sealing well and making it run lean. We need to look at replacing that part soon. Eric can explain what it is exactly. >>
> >
We got the spark plugs and fuel filter replaced but held off on the starter since Audi show that you have to remove the engine to replace but Eric and get it out by lowering the sub-frame to gain access. We didn’t feel we had the time to complete that this week. >>
> >
So with that said your vehicle is ready for pickup so you can drive it till Eric get back a week from Monday"

When I picked it up- it was definitely not right and I immediately gave it back to them.

Then after another 10 days of them tinkering, I receive the below email from the Service Manager:

"We put on the part I had ordered and test drove multiple times. It ran good every time and no codes set. Eric did get the starter on, that was fun. If you pock (sic) it, let me know how it does"

The techs had installed a pressure sensor as the Service Manager thought it was the issue. When I picked it up it was still producing zero boost and was very apparent the car was not running correctly. The Audi Service manager and the tech thought it was running normally. I immediately went to a sales manager and had him drive it. He also immediately knew/confirmed it wasn't anywhere near right. Therefore; the car was left with them to inspect further.

The turbo is all scratched up in the area we can see and is definitely toast.

[MaxRS6]

Update- Just returned from the shop. The valves are all in tact with some carbon on them. Exhaust manifold was off and we could see the valves directly. Tech says they are all look good. It still seems as if I dodged another bullet with this piece of shrapnel going through without any real damage to the engine. However; the unknown of where it came from (or if there are further pieces) is troublesome. It is definitely a black painted piece of metal. We can see all the turbo fan blades and they all look in tact.

Two new turbos arrived while I was there discussing. They expect to have it back together in a couple of days and we'll see how it goes...00

[ben916]

^ Timing Belt service was done when I had the timing belt roller bolt break issue just prior to this issue.

It was about a week after they gave it back to me when the turbo died. I had not driven the car much after the TB job. Then on my first relatively long drive, is when it went dead. The audi dealership (Parker Audi/Little Rock) even gave it back to me a couple of times (with the dead turbo) stating it is was running well- when in fact it was still producing zero boost- the flipping idiots! I turned it around within a block of the dealership to tell them it was still not right. Here are a couple snipits of emails the Service Manager sent me as they worked on it:

When I first took it in for the turbo issue- they had it for a couple of days and I received this email from the service manager:

"We have your car back together. We first thought that the timing was off due to the codes and checked that and all was good. Found that the upper plenum cover was not sealing well and making it run lean. We need to look at replacing that part soon. Eric can explain what it is exactly. >>
> >
We got the spark plugs and fuel filter replaced but held off on the starter since Audi show that you have to remove the engine to replace but Eric and get it out by lowering the sub-frame to gain access. We didn’t feel we had the time to complete that this week. >>
> >
So with that said your vehicle is ready for pickup so you can drive it till Eric get back a week from Monday"

When I picked it up- it was definitely not right and I immediately gave it back to them.

Then after another 10 days of them tinkering, I receive the below email from the Service Manager:

"We put on the part I had ordered and test drove multiple times. It ran good every time and no codes set. Eric did get the starter on, that was fun. If you pock (sic) it, let me know how it does"

The techs had installed a pressure sensor as the Service Manager thought it was the issue. When I picked it up it was still producing zero boost and was very apparent the car was not running correctly. The Audi Service manager and the tech thought it was running normally. I immediately went to a sales manager and had him drive it. He also immediately knew/confirmed it wasn't anywhere near right. Therefore; the car was left with them to inspect further.

The turbo is all scratched up in the area we can see and is definitely toast.

Good thing these guys aren't paid to THINK!!!! They are paid to WRENCH...

Once you pick it up, it is no longer THEIR problem - "Runs normal" for a 1973 Pinto...
Sounds like the Service Manager needs to go back to school or back to changing tires for a living...

[bilko1]

I had my compressions checked recently while changing the spark plugs, all cylinders were 165 - 170 psi. The engine has done 76,000 miles.