Torque Converter Story (kinda long)

[ben916]

.. and in 3 weeks the car is going to airstrip, I will be putting tranny to test.

um, I am clearly NOT asking for any type of Tranny video but with that stated, please video these exclusive airstrip runs.... or it didn't happen... right Randy?

[speedtrapped]

Hmmm, I thought my race logic box would prove it? I will see about buying a vid

[mmaturo]

I just want to modify my sig to 'i told you so'. By the way with all for four transmissions and TCs in my car it killed both not just the TC. The TC when slipping tears up the transmission. It will fail at anytime regardless of abuse as my last one was babied and still went. Mine each lasted about 15K. Original in the car to 27K. I have friend's whose went at 13K from new. I had a 5th TC but it failed in weeks with a bad install like one of the posts above and it took out the trans with it the second time.

I'm not convinced anybody has had any better luck over the years than just getting the stock tranny rebuilt as economically as possible (tozo) and pray it holds as some do just fine... dealer will simply swap yours out for a $6K rebuilt ZF unit from Germany so a big expensive job there if not under warranty.

The first post on this thread cracks me up as i got the same free front fender paint job as they forgot to take a screw out of the bumper so when putting it back on it was just scratching the hell out of the side the tech was not working on to get it back on.

[716YETI]

So let me get this straight, even after I pay thousands of dollars the thing is destined to fail shortly after. Nice.

[skribe]

So let me get this straight, even after I pay thousands of dollars the thing is destined to fail shortly after. Nice.

Not necessarily. Some owners have made 100k on the original. Mark is an extreme example. It may be related to the fact that his car was a very early build and seemed to make more power than advertised. It also may be related to the fact that his right foot weighs 30+ lbs. I've seen it in person.

But it's a fair assumption that most RS 6's will have at least one TC replacement. Make sure you at least get the updated design, if not an improved design.

There is a flaw in the design of the TC... A seal gives way and creates a chain of failure that ends in everything being toast. This is not just an RS 6 problem. It happens a lot to other Audi platforms, too. So hating on your particular car is misdirected. Hate on Audi and ZF for pawning off a flawed design on its customers for years. How they have escaped a recall, I really don't know. Read this that I found on the googler... well stated AFAIK:

Here's the nuts and bolts technical explanation of the root causes: ZF and Audi's original converter design utilized two rubber seals inside of the torque converter that were of questionable quality.

The two seals are responsible for sealing the hydraulic pressure that allows the torque converter clutch to engage and hold. One of the seals is a "lip" type that seals on the transmission input shaft and the other "o" ring type seal seals against the piston.

The material originally used was not up to the task when it came to dealing with the tremendous heat and pressure that occurs inside of a torque converter. Although Audi did release a second design input shaft lip seal, failures have been observed with those as well.

When the hydraulic pressure that is required to allow converter clutch application cannot be contained because of the faulty seals, the clutch will start to slip and usually destroy itself before too long.

When looking for a replacement converter to purchase from a remanufacturer, it is often helpful to ask them a few questions about their rebuilding procedures.

First off, you will want to find out if they are installing the latest design level seals as part of their torque converter rebuild- using original type seals will work for a while but will eventually lead to another premature failure. There now aftermarket replacements for these components that seem to be far superior to the factory parts.

Secondly, you will surely want to ask if the clutch itself is getting replaced. Believe it or not, this is not a given with some suppliers. The clutches in these particular units are of a multi-disk configuration. Replacing this entire multi disk set up is quite labor intensive and requires not only special tools but also a high level of skill- make sure your converter rebuilding company has both!

Naturally you will also want your rebuilder to replace any other components that normally wear out such as washers, bearings, one way clutches, and spline inserts. Most of the quality converter manufacturers will also pressure test and dynamically balance the unit once it is in the final stage of the rebuilding process.

Taking the time to find out that the job is getting done correctly is absolutely critical. As with any type of rebuilt or remanufactured automotive component, there can be varying levels of quality. With over 11 hours of labor involved in removing and reinstalling your A4 or A6's ZF5HP19 FLA transmission to replace the converter, it is surely a job that you will not want to do or have done more than once.

[716YETI]

You would think you could assume anyone rebuilding would use the latest and the best but, we know that is not a reality I guess. My TC was replaced with an IPT BUT the valve bodies were not reworked which seems insane but, oh well.

[mmaturo]

I'm extreme but what other car do we know of that has this high of a failure rate. I hear less of UK or European failures so I think our US Oldsmobile TCU tunning has a lot to do with it. I never did the MTM programming of the TCU but i wish i had before it went off warranty. Even one in the life of a car is too many in the low(er) mileage . My foot is heavy but it is an RS6. Gotta drive the sucker. But i really did take it easy on the last one. The post Skribe quotes above is dead on with the seals. It is why my car left the building as the last time it was on the lift my mechanic told me I had signs of leaking (and was starting a slight slip and clunking into first every long while). I now wish we had gone after the tranny rather than the DRC with the complaints to the gov as I had even more back-up for the tranny than just my two sets of the entire DRC system. Oh well

[JSRS6]

I'm extreme but what other car do we know of that has this high of a failure rate. I hear less of UK or European failures so I think our US Oldsmobile TCU tunning has a lot to do with it. I never did the MTM programming of the TCU but i wish i had before it went off warranty. Even one in the life of a car is too many in the low(er) mileage . My foot is heavy but it is an RS6. Gotta drive the sucker. But i really did take it easy on the last one. The post Skribe quotes above is dead on with the seals. It is why my car left the building as the last time it was on the lift my mechanic told me I had signs of leaking (and was starting a slight slip and clunking into first every long while). I now wish we had gone after the tranny rather than the DRC with the complaints to the gov as I had even more back-up for the tranny than just my two sets of the entire DRC system. Oh well

It's not too late...

[Mikk23]

I'm having a similar problem where my car can't seem to hold second gear...it will slip straight back to red line and sometimes "catch" or slam back into gear and just about knock your fillings out. I'm curious how my aftermarket warranty company will take to the idea of a rebuild by a company like 517 vs a stock job by the dealer. I could make the drive to 517...it would be painful but if the warranty was picking up the bill...might be worth the effort. Anyone had any experience getting a performance rebuild under warranty vs a dealer ship job? Seems like from a ticket price point of view...it would cost them about the same either way...if not a little less for the rebuild.

[Elevens]

I'm going through that exact process now. My warranty company just covered me for a TC and Valve body just about a month ago. As stated above its started to slip badly. I just dropped it of today for another transmission removal. This time their (USP MotorSport) sending it to 517trans at my request. My warranty company said they may cover it again If we can provide proof of Internal damage. How I will do that I don't know at this time. The only way I can see this happening is if they send an agent to 517 to physically inspect the Transmission. This is still a work in progress and I will let you know how this pans out. If It doesn't work out I will be out a lot of money. But If the Box never has to come out again It will be worth it......................

[4everRS]

Elevens, looking back on you situation, can you think of any signs this could of happened. i.e. Was there any significant noises or total loss of gear before the tc was shipped off.

I will be replaceing my tc soon and I don't like the sounds of your horror story. My tranny is still shifting fine minus the cel.

[Elevens]

Elevens, looking back on you situation, can you think of any signs this could of happened. i.e. Was there any significant noises or total loss of gear before the tc was shipped off.
I will be replaceing my tc soon and I don't like the sounds of your horror story. My tranny is still shifting fine minus the cel.

Believe it or not there was no issues with the Tranny initially, only the Dreaded CEL (17125). Tranny was shifting fine. But because of the CEL I decided to Replace the TC and the Valve Body. After I got it back is when I noticed some kind of slipping from 2nd to 3rd. At first they thought it might work itself out, but it got progressively worse. After checking the Fluid levels and fault codes(none) they concluded the Clutches are slipping. If yours is shifting OK then you may be OK with just a TC replacement. But as I said before I would advise anyone with the Box out to go ahead and get a Bullet Proof Rebuild( If there is such a thing) Because its just to expensive to be removing and replacing these Damn things. Of course this is a much more expensive rout to follow. But I think in the long run you will be happier and have a better piece of mind. A Zero failure rate is obviously impossible to guaranty but a strengthened rebuild will surely lengthen the life of the Tranny. My max goals are about 530hp and no more than 600ft lbs of torque at the wheels. And hopefully a Strengthened rebuild will be able to handle this. Ultimately it boils down to how much money you have to spend. My back is against the wall right now, I have to spend the money now and worry about paying it back later..................

[ttboost]

Hmmm... I thought I had read here somewhere that most cars will eventually get the dreaded 17125 code, especially if they have an original Audi TC. If you have the 17125 code, you need a new TC, period. If you have the code only, your tranny is slipping a little. If you have the code and the CEL comes on, STOP DRIVING IT, this is sign, it's starting to slip a lot, thats why it checked a light!!!!!

[Hotshu]

What's the rough cost to fit a 6 speed manual transmission in place of the automatic?

[V8weight]

What's the rough cost to fit a 6 speed manual transmission in place of the automatic?

It's hard to nail down an exact dollar amount.....no one has actually ever finished one....

[TozoM8]

What's the rough cost to fit a 6 speed manual transmission in place of the automatic?

If you have to pay someone to do it then ~$10K.

[ben916]

It's hard to nail down an exact dollar amount.....no one has actually ever finished one....

The ECU is the tough part...

[Carbonman]

What's the rough cost to fit a 6 speed manual transmission in place of the automatic?

Labor - 30ish hours if you know what's going on.
Parts (including ECU software from EPL) $6-8K

So basically what TozoM8 said.