Manual Conversion Thread - RS6 with 01E

[SteveKen]

I'm back at it tonight for a while and have a question for the group.

With the aux radiators gone, are the IC ducts aft of the IC's needed? #15 & #16 as pictured below.

[hahnmgh63]

When you do the Wagner intercoolers you don't re-use those rear ducts as the Wagners are too thick and you would have to cut them down a lot to get them to fit so I wouldn't worrry about them. It might end up being all your fault. You posted the schematic of the Aux Radiators and all of that plumbing, and since I am somewhat Anal on weight savings where I can (Dry cell battery, Forged Wheels, etc..), you have me thinking seriously about removing those Radiators too. If they can get by in most of the World without them, I guess I probably can too, plus the weight savings and extra hoses that really want to eventually leak.

[ttboost]

When you do the Wagner intercoolers you don't re-use those rear ducts as the Wagners are too thick and you would have to cut them down a lot to get them to fit so I wouldn't worrry about them. It might end up being all your fault. You posted the schematic of the Aux Radiators and all of that plumbing, and since I am somewhat Anal on weight savings where I can (Dry cell battery, Forged Wheels, etc..), you have me thinking seriously about removing those Radiators too. If they can get by in most of the World without them, I guess I probably can too, plus the weight savings and extra hoses that really want to eventually leak.

I was gonna ask...is that a fairly straight forward mod? What do we have to plug? I don't recall where the lines come from? Is there a DIY on this here? Seems like I am heatsoaking my IC's too, even though these are in the back?

[hahnmgh63]

Take a look at Steve's post from a couple of days ago. He has the ETKA view of the Aux Radiators and it shows all of the hoses & pipes associated with them. It's a lot.

[ttboost]

Take a look at Steve's post from a couple of days ago. He has the ETKA view of the Aux Radiators and it shows all of the hoses & pipes associated with them. It's a lot.

Yeah...I just noticed it...post #63...looks like the engine has to be out to get ALL of it out...as the rack is behind the motor under the cowl...what an engineering clusterf*ck this car is...

[DonS]

I would think the aerodynamics of the ducting is like that of a the exterior of the car. The inlet air is just as important as the outgoing air. I'd find a way to keep air moving away from the ICs with or without those ducts.

[hahnmgh63]

There might be a piece of two you can't get at very easily but most looks like it can be done with the engine in the car. Of course this is coming from someone who's engine is sitting on a stand 30 feet from the car.

[SteveKen]

Without removing the rack, you could plug #32 where it meets #31. I plugged it up at the connector built into #36.

I'm not sure if having any air trapped in there would be a big issue, or having coolant sit in there that doesn't get circulated, etc.

[Mattionals]

Steve,

I'm not sure if you posted it anywhere, although I searched the thread and didn't see it, but what car is your 01E, axles, rear, and driveshaft from?

I'm not jumping the gun since I don't even own an RS6 yet but when I do go the manual route, it is now a definite considering the swap has been done a few times now, I'd like to see what combo fits the RS6 the best. I know that auids4parts.com is selling an entire manual conversion kit with the following:


Audi s4/a6 o1E 6 Speed Transmission - 6month/Unlimited Mile Warranty
2.7T Clutch
Flywheel
DS & PS Transmission Brackets
DS & PS Transmission rubber Mount
Transmission Mounting Ring
Transmission to motor bolts
Rear Drive shaft (a6 6 speed Specific)
Rear Diff (a6 6 speed specific)
Shifter Linkage
Shifter Box w/ internal Components
Shifter Boot (from a6)
Shifter Knob
Clutch Line w/ clips
Clutch Pedal assembly w/ switch and Pigtails
Slave Cylinder
Master Cylinder
A6 Specific Front Axles (Driverside & PassengerSide)

If the gearing is ideal, this could be a great setup. All of this plus your kit ends up somewhere just south of 5K, but after factoring in shipping costs it probably will end up over that figure.

TBH, if that is the mechanical cost, that is probably the more expensive factor. I'd assume some hefty expense for a ECU flash to compensate for not having the slushbox in there. All in all that isn't as bad as it really could be! Great work and keep it up!

[speedtrapped]

Steve when I installed wagners, I followed Yokust's lead and removed the aux radiators....just spliced pipes, and zip tied....no overheating issues, temps identical to before.

[ttboost]

Steve when I installed wagners, I followed Yokust's lead and removed the aux radiators....just spliced pipes, and zip tied....no overheating issues, temps identical to before.

So you just removed the actual radiators and left everything else?

[speedtrapped]

si, as simple as that

[Carbonman]

Steve,

I'm not sure if you posted it anywhere, although I searched the thread and didn't see it, but what car is your 01E, axles, rear, and driveshaft from?

I'm not jumping the gun since I don't even own an RS6 yet but when I do go the manual route, it is now a definite considering the swap has been done a few times now, I'd like to see what combo fits the RS6 the best. I know that auids4parts.com is selling an entire manual conversion kit with the following:


Audi s4/a6 o1E 6 Speed Transmission - 6month/Unlimited Mile Warranty
2.7T Clutch
Flywheel
DS & PS Transmission Brackets
DS & PS Transmission rubber Mount
Transmission Mounting Ring
Transmission to motor bolts
Rear Drive shaft (a6 6 speed Specific)
Rear Diff (a6 6 speed specific)
Shifter Linkage
Shifter Box w/ internal Components
Shifter Boot (from a6)
Shifter Knob
Clutch Line w/ clips
Clutch Pedal assembly w/ switch and Pigtails
Slave Cylinder
Master Cylinder
A6 Specific Front Axles (Driverside & PassengerSide)

If the gearing is ideal, this could be a great setup. All of this plus your kit ends up somewhere just south of 5K, but after factoring in shipping costs it probably will end up over that figure.

TBH, if that is the mechanical cost, that is probably the more expensive factor. I'd assume some hefty expense for a ECU flash to compensate for not having the slushbox in there. All in all that isn't as bad as it really could be! Great work and keep it up!

I'll jump in with several comments on this and I'm sure Steve will have additional information to add as well.

01E - works from basically any application from a B5 or C5 car. You will want to pay special attention to the following items:
1.) Make sure you get the speed sensor - you need a 2.7 sensor as the RS6 one does not work
2.) Make sure you have the mounts supplied with the transmission are from a B5 or C5 as well. You will reuse the RS6 ZF soft mounts, not the 01E mounts.
3.) Gearing on transmissions is very important. The S4 trannys come with a 6th gear of .68 which will yield a 2300 RPM 60 MPH engine speed. You can also have different 5th and 6th gears installed. TDI spec gearing (from the European A6 TDI) has a .56 6th gear which yields a 1800 RPM 60 MPH speed. Definitely worth considering for this car.
4.) Differential. The standard A6/S4 transmission has a 3:1 bias. Look at changing that to a high rear bias 4:1 - cheap mod and puts more oomph to the back wheels.
5.) Make sure the 1&2 synchros have been done - or you'll be pulling it out again.

Rear Diff - Use the one with the car, assuming it's in good shape. The car comes with a 4.11, which is what you want (for the A6 platform).

You will need the following from a C5 6 speed manual donor car or from Audis4parts:
- drive shaft (and all bolts and seals)
- half shafts (make sure you have all bolts and seals and the CV boots are good)
- gear selector (make sure the shim is in the linkage)
- slave clutch line
- manual transmission spacer ring (if not using the adapter ring)
- transmission sound isolators (goes over the half shalf outputs
- prop shaft cover
- Pedal assembly
- six speed harness (check the age of the harness. The brake switch connector on the RS6 doesn't mate with the older brake switches. We actually replaced the switch).

You will need to source:
- flywheel (steel or aluminum depending on your preference), with bolts
- Clutch - S4 application, from your supplier of preference
- ECU software (this will develop more later).
- A piece of hose to attach the clutch master cylinder to the brake fluid reservoir (8mm), unless it cam with the kit.

How to do it - you have to make a choice of one of two routes for the conversion:
1.) With an adapter kit from Steve Kendrish - tidy, very well engineered and it takes a lok of guess work out of the equation. Requires use of an aftermarket starter motor.

2.) Raven MS - add a hole to the block for the starter and use the factory starter motor. Doesn't grab all the bolt position but seems to be enough. There's a cost savings with this route as you reuse the starter and the factory spacer.

Other things to be prepared for...
1.) Valve cover seals
2.) Cam tensioner seals
3.) Spark plugs
4.) Other broken stuff you will find
5.) O2 sensors (depending on your mileage)
6.) EGT sensors (depending on mileage)
7.) Delete SAI system - saves quite a bit of room on the passenger side. Needs ECU mod to remove CEL.

ECU Software
This is still a bit of a wildcard as there are a number of people working on this. I've not made a decision on the route I'm going at this point as I just want to get the mechanical stuff completed. More on this later.

Where to do it: You need to find a shop that knows what's going on. This is not a terrible project, but it does require some know how. Also, determine if you're going to drop out the engine or try a partial drop. From my experience, it's a lot faster with the engine drop. The other method certainly requires a lot less hose/line disconnecting and fluid draining, but my personal opinion is the pull allows a much better experience as well as being able to inspect a lot more of the engine.

I'll be putting together a more detailed document with pictures once I have my project completed, which should be very soon.

Also, unless you have some killer sources for parts - or get a great deal on a donor car, the 5K number will be pretty hard to hit for parts. Just the adapter kit and clutch will set you back 3K. From there you will need the C5 parts, a transmission (rebuilt or known to be good) and a variety of other parts (O2s and EGTs alone are 1K). I'll try include some budgetary numbers in my write up.

It's a great project and just driving the car briefly last Friday makes it all worth while.

[Mattionals]

I whole heartedly expected to be in somewhere close to 10 K. Finding a place to do the work is probably the biggest headache.

[Greg@DMtechnik]

If anyone needs work done in NY im here to do it, can do all 6 speed conversions, ecu tune, and build manifolds in house for any car PM ME

[Mattionals]

Greg,

When the time comes, you will likely get a PM! I am a bit of a pain though as I like to do parts of my own work! Maybe we could work something out where I could wrench and "supervise".

[Matt@ravenms]

Rear Diff - Use the one with the car, assuming it's in good shape. The car comes with a 4.11, which is what you want (for the A6 platform).


2.) Raven MS - add a hole to the block for the starter and use the factory starter motor. Doesn't grab all the bolt position but seems to be enough. There's a cost savings with this route as you reuse the starter and the factory spacer.

Funny, I check ETKA and I thought it was a 3.88 rear end(35/9 Teeth). Just double checked myself, and sure enough, it's 4.11(37/9 Teeth) Guess Tonight I'm pulling the Stock 2.7T diff, and putting in the RS6 Diff back in

I'm still using the main holes that Steve kit uses, trans thru spacer to engine. I'm using 8 bolts to hold tranny on. As for the Starter, it's a Stock A6 4.2L starter, not RS6 just to make clear. I added one hole for the Starter and shaved some material to clear starter. You save TONS of money by doing that vs building a Kit.

Glad to here the Steel Flywheel works great. I don't advise Alum for daily use. To hard to drive.

[TozoM8]

I'll jump in with several comments on this and I'm sure Steve will have additional information to add as well.

01E - works from basically any application from a B5 or C5 car. You will want to pay special attention to the following items:
1.) Make sure you get the speed sensor - you need a 2.7 sensor as the RS6 one does not work
2.) Make sure you have the mounts supplied with the transmission are from a B5 or C5 as well. You will reuse the RS6 ZF soft mounts, not the 01E mounts.
3.) Gearing on transmissions is very important. The S4 trannys come with a 6th gear of .68 which will yield a 2300 RPM 60 MPH engine speed. You can also have different 5th and 6th gears installed. TDI spec gearing (from the European A6 TDI) has a .56 6th gear which yields a 1800 RPM 60 MPH speed. Definitely worth considering for this car.
4.) Differential. The standard A6/S4 transmission has a 3:1 bias. Look at changing that to a high rear bias 4:1 - cheap mod and puts more oomph to the back wheels.
5.) Make sure the 1&2 synchros have been done - or you'll be pulling it out again.

Rear Diff - Use the one with the car, assuming it's in good shape. The car comes with a 4.11, which is what you want (for the A6 platform).

You will need the following from a C5 6 speed manual donor car or from Audis4parts:
- drive shaft (and all bolts and seals)
- half shafts (make sure you have all bolts and seals and the CV boots are good)
- gear selector (make sure the shim is in the linkage)
- slave clutch line
- manual transmission spacer ring (if not using the adapter ring)
- transmission sound isolators (goes over the half shalf outputs
- prop shaft cover
- Pedal assembly
- six speed harness (check the age of the harness. The brake switch connector on the RS6 doesn't mate with the older brake switches. We actually replaced the switch).

You will need to source:
- flywheel (steel or aluminum depending on your preference), with bolts
- Clutch - S4 application, from your supplier of preference
- ECU software (this will develop more later).
- A piece of hose to attach the clutch master cylinder to the brake fluid reservoir (8mm), unless it cam with the kit.

How to do it - you have to make a choice of one of two routes for the conversion:
1.) With an adapter kit from Steve Kendrish - tidy, very well engineered and it takes a lok of guess work out of the equation. Requires use of an aftermarket starter motor.

2.) Raven MS - add a hole to the block for the starter and use the factory starter motor. Doesn't grab all the bolt position but seems to be enough. There's a cost savings with this route as you reuse the starter and the factory spacer.

Other things to be prepared for...
1.) Valve cover seals
2.) Cam tensioner seals
3.) Spark plugs
4.) Other broken stuff you will find
5.) O2 sensors (depending on your mileage)
6.) EGT sensors (depending on mileage)
7.) Delete SAI system - saves quite a bit of room on the passenger side. Needs ECU mod to remove CEL.

ECU Software
This is still a bit of a wildcard as there are a number of people working on this. I've not made a decision on the route I'm going at this point as I just want to get the mechanical stuff completed. More on this later.

Where to do it: You need to find a shop that knows what's going on. This is not a terrible project, but it does require some know how. Also, determine if you're going to drop out the engine or try a partial drop. From my experience, it's a lot faster with the engine drop. The other method certainly requires a lot less hose/line disconnecting and fluid draining, but my personal opinion is the pull allows a much better experience as well as being able to inspect a lot more of the engine.

I'll be putting together a more detailed document with pictures once I have my project completed, which should be very soon.

Also, unless you have some killer sources for parts - or get a great deal on a donor car, the 5K number will be pretty hard to hit for parts. Just the adapter kit and clutch will set you back 3K. From there you will need the C5 parts, a transmission (rebuilt or known to be good) and a variety of other parts (O2s and EGTs alone are 1K). I'll try include some budgetary numbers in my write up.

It's a great project and just driving the car briefly last Friday makes it all worth while.

^^^^^^^^^I am TozoM8 and I approve this message ^^^^^^^^^^