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Thread: FMU Intake, group Buy

  1. #91
    Registered User hahnmgh63's Avatar
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    Terry you are correct and that is where I tapped in at, the line from the pressure limiting valves to the Turbo intakes. I used a catch can on each side. Due to the nature of our Turbo (sometimes pressurized intake) cars the Catch can have to be of the sealed type and not vented (that is one line in and one out without an atmospheric filter). These catch cans are almost as common as the vented type since there are so many Turbo & Supercharged cars out there. Mine collects a small amount of oil even with the use of Aces IV which also reduced the bypass oil a small amount.
    2003 White RS6 2013 Midnight Blue S5
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  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by hahnmgh63 View Post
    (that is one line in and one out without an atmospheric filter)
    You may notice three lines coming from our catch can. After some talking between us (and a helpful message from a forum member), we realized the oversight in our design and remade it to only have one line in, and one line out. No filter.

    Don't forget, folks. Shoot me an e-mail to talk about the deposits and so I can get your mailing addresses. We're cutting the pieces out and have ordered all the carbon fiber cans, so things are moving. Once we secure all 5 deposits, we'll have a good ballpark of when to expect delivery.

    andrew [at] fluidmotorunion [dot] com
    http://www.fluidmotorunion.com

  3. #93
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    Okay guys, as you can see from the pictures below, we're almost done with all the cutting we need for the 5 intakes. After that, it's time to start welding as we await the arrival of the carbon fiber filter cans.

    And here's the skinny on how everything else is going:

    I currently have 4 of the 5 mailing addresses (terrytcl, speedtrapped, covertw12, palette) and 3 of the 5 deposits (waiting on palette to send confirmation, and tidus888 still has to pony up).

    Now, through all the correspondence, tidus888 seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth. And since this website is the only way to get a hold of him, it seems that he's either lost interest or just isn't on the boards at all any more. I'm going to keep attempting to make contact with him, but it's been well over a week, so I don't know what's going to happen with that. The group buy was for 5, but now we've got 4 all of a sudden.

    So it basically boils down to this. Since we don't have a need for a second RS6 intake at the shop, I'm officially re-opening tidus888's spot on the group buy. If you know anybody who wants to get in on the fifth intake, have them e-mail me ASAP (andrew [at] fluidmotorunion [dot] com) to start arranging the deposit/shipping information. I wasn't really expecting anyone to back out or disappear, so I'm sorta playing this by ear now.

    As I've said in e-mail correspondence before, the cans will be arriving much earlier than the 4-6 weeks predicted, probably in the neighborhood of 2-3 weeks (from last week, so 1-2 now).



    http://www.fluidmotorunion.com

  4. #94
    Registered User Innovator's Avatar
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    It certainly looks good. Has there been any definitive dyno data to substantiate installing this system? Has the stock intake box been proven to be a bottleneck? I ask, because I have made over 500 HP on a single 3 " MAF on other engines.
    Last edited by Innovator; January 30th, 2011 at 23:14.

  5. #95
    Registered User yokust's Avatar
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    I know the Apikol intake actually makes wheel hp.

    My car was used for the test mule, and was same dyno, same day, same tune. Made 10whp each time the system was swapped on. We even took out the filters of the stock box and still made less hp then the Apikol intake.

    But I have no idea if the FMU system flows enough to do that or not.

    So even if the Apikol or Dahlback system allows hot air into the engine, it is still allowing a larger needed amount of air into the engine

  6. #96
    Registered User Innovator's Avatar
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    Based on a specific boost level, rpm and throttle opening, the engine can only ingest so much air.. If the potential for more air is available, but the engine does not demand it, there will be no benefit. As you know, if the IAT increases, HP will decrease. So IAT measurements must be conclusive, as far as any aftermarket intake, not increasing the IAT with any significance. I install many aftermarket intakes, and most of the time, they make the engine sound more powerful, but seldom make the car quicker. If anything, they increase heat soak when you are idling for any length of time. That is why it is imperative for piping to made out of composite materials, and not metal. Now, I have absolutely no idea if this particular intake will be of benefit to the RS6, but rest assured if it is proven to enhance performance, I will be buying one.

  7. #97
    Registered User speedtrapped's Avatar
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    I have dyno'ed my car 3 separate times, last time we did a pretty get together with stock and various modded rs6's. I am installing the FMU and will have dyno'ed and I will be data logging as well.
    Ebony/Black, DBR Stage 3 race kit, -SOLD :( 996TT Proto 650 basically a sardine can with a rocket attached to the back...11' CTS-V, 540/579RWP hehehehe ;)

  8. #98
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    The only thing I'm knocking here is the cost per gain in HP with this or any aftermarket airbox modification. The real bottleneck seems to be past where the revised airbox systems end. I'm talking about the turbo inlets and the crazy route that they neck down and take to reach the turbos. The entire system would need to be redesigned with more of a straight shot into the turbos similar to the 2.7T. I'm not sure if it's even possible with things as they are.
    Bigger MAF's and tuning? Maybe but there's still an acute angle that must happen for the air to get to the turbo. Just my $0.02.
    2012 Q7 TDI S-Line - 2010 GTI - 2007 A3 3.2 S-Line - 2003 RS6
    2001 Honda S2000 - 1977 Honda CBR 750-F2 - 1965 GMC 1500 WideSide

  9. #99
    Registered User Innovator's Avatar
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    I'm sure the engineers did the best they could given the extremely tight space they were working with.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Innovator View Post
    I'm sure the engineers did the best they could given the extremely tight space they were working with.
    I have no doubt about this. Thus, I'd keep the stock setup unless a radical re-design were to occur. Most likely with bigger turbos attached.
    2012 Q7 TDI S-Line - 2010 GTI - 2007 A3 3.2 S-Line - 2003 RS6
    2001 Honda S2000 - 1977 Honda CBR 750-F2 - 1965 GMC 1500 WideSide

  11. #101
    Registered User yokust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Innovator View Post
    I'm sure the engineers did the best they could given the extremely tight space they were working with.
    I think this is the answer, but it does not mean it is a huge bottle neck though.

    If you compare filter size of a 1.8t to one side of the 4.2t. The 1.8t has 3 times the filter size to draw thru, and its less liters per 1 bank of our motors and makes 75 less hp. And it has been proven that on 1.8t's that filter setup is a restriction around 300hp. So a chipped 4.2t is well above that level with a 1/3 of the filter size to allow proper flow into the motor.


    MAF size would not have any effect here unless the turbo is changed btw. The only times MAF sizes need to be changed and a retune needed is when the voltage of sensor is reaching above or around the 4.5volts at max power. So you change the MAF size to reduce the voltage seen thru the MAF and a retune is needed to correct the new voltage graph of the MAF

  12. #102
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    So what HP level would you say that the stock airbox assembly becomes a limiting factor?

    I would guess that it's not worth the expense unless a turbo upgrade was done.
    2012 Q7 TDI S-Line - 2010 GTI - 2007 A3 3.2 S-Line - 2003 RS6
    2001 Honda S2000 - 1977 Honda CBR 750-F2 - 1965 GMC 1500 WideSide

  13. #103
    Registered User yokust's Avatar
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    Even bone stock the airbox is a bottleneck.

    Like I stated before, my car made more HP to the wheels with the Apikol intake setup on it.

    Testing for the intake was done on same day, and never was rolled off dyno. Made more whp on stock chip, and made even more with APR program turned on.

    Apkiol and Dahlback systems have been both dyno proven, but they are basisclly the same minus a huge chunk of carbon that the Dahlback comes with

  14. #104
    Registered User ben916's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yokust View Post
    I think this is the answer, but it does not mean it is a huge bottle neck though.

    If you compare filter size of a 1.8t to one side of the 4.2t. The 1.8t has 3 times the filter size to draw thru, and its less liters per 1 bank of our motors and makes 75 less hp. And it has been proven that on 1.8t's that filter setup is a restriction around 300hp. So a chipped 4.2t is well above that level with a 1/3 of the filter size to allow proper flow into the motor.


    MAF size would not have any effect here unless the turbo is changed btw. The only times MAF sizes need to be changed and a retune needed is when the voltage of sensor is reaching above or around the 4.5volts at max power. So you change the MAF size to reduce the voltage seen thru the MAF and a retune is needed to correct the new voltage graph of the MAF
    Yokust,
    I am glad you posted this information as I am not questioning/scuttling the FMU upgrade (as that is what I see it as, and I am sure others do also). I like the FMU filter assembly but I have to plan my upgrade path slowly as "Congress/CFO" has a tight grip on the funds...

    By your analysis of the MAF voltage, are you saying that to move to the next level of power, one would have to change to a different MAF that:
    1. allows a increased voltage range?
    2. allows more metered air (i.e. increasing diameter of MAF opening?

    If allowing more metered air, wouldn't that mean one would have to upgrade the turbos and turbo inlets, thereby matching the increase in MAF diameter?

    Also, HOW in the hell does MRC tuning (on the UK side of the world) get/extract so much power out of the C5?
    SOLD - 03 RS6 Avus (905355)
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  15. #105
    Registered User skribe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben916 View Post
    Also, HOW in the hell does MRC tuning (on the UK side of the world) get/extract so much power out of the C5?
    GT30 turbos, manual conversion, tubular manifolds, three radiators, four oil coolers, a FMIC, 750cc injectors, and two fuel pumps on their big beast C5 RS 6 avant is how.

  16. #106
    Registered User ben916's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skribe View Post
    GT30 turbos, manual conversion, tubular manifolds, three radiators, four oil coolers, a FMIC, 750cc injectors, and two fuel pumps on their big beast C5 RS 6 avant is how.
    So that is a check for 5 digits or is it 6 digits?
    SOLD - 03 RS6 Avus (905355)
    Current - 03 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 double cab - the YETI, lifted, winched, snorkeled, lockered, skidded, geared

  17. #107
    Registered User yokust's Avatar
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    MAF upgrades are only needed based on needs. Even with upgraded turbos it may not be needed to change MAF size. It is all based off the voltage readings under full power, or sometimes in certain cruising ranges. But it would need to be datalogged and not just thrown on.

    When most 5volt sensors read above 4.5-4.7volts, they can actually loose all reading and go to a flatline voltage and send car into limp mode, or freak out ecu and not control items properly. And possible to cause parts to fail.

    When you increase the MAf size, it will tell the ecu LESS air is coming by the sensor. And read less voltage, so that the MAF can actually read a larger range of air coming into the motor. But with that a retune is required, unless you are just trying to fool the ecu. So if a retune is not done, you may not get the proper amount of fuel that is needed, because the ecu is seeing less air volume entering motor

  18. #108
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    Hey guys, we just got the intakes back from the powdercoater today. They're even better looking than just straight aluminum! All the group buy intakes will be receiving this treatment, since the engine bay isn't dark enough to begin with (sarcasm alert).

    Sorry there aren't any pictures of the fully-installed powdercoated intake yet. We've left it disassembled so we can do fitment with the other 5 intake boxes before we begin tacking and welding everything together. As soon as we put it back together (probably tomorrow or Thursday), I'll snap some pictures before they whisk the RS6 away for trans/oil cooler testing.





    And don't forget, if you want to be lucky number 5, shoot me a message or e-mail for more details. Otherwise, I shall continue to ask politely.

    Good luck out there in the Snowpocalypse!
    http://www.fluidmotorunion.com

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