Searched Forum, more questions about potential purchase

[DreamingOfCars]

First post here from someone considering an RS6. This forum is an awesome source of info. Ideally, I'd like to own the car for about 5 years. I spent several days reading through the forum, and now I have some follow up questions. I apologize in advance if some of this sounds dumb - I don't work on cars. This is longish, so even if you can only answer 1 or 2, that would be great:

1. I'm trying to pin down costs to run the beast. I'm assuming tires last about 15k, brakes about 25-30k, and I reviewed the cost of maintenance locally. Given that, it seems like the average cost per year to run (10k miles per year, barring failures not covered by warranties) is around 3k/year. Does that sound right?

2. I've read up on the DRC issues. For those that had the recall installed properly, have you had additional costs or issues related to the suspension since then (other than subjective suspension stiffness preferences)?

3. I'm looking at a car with 52k on the clock in good shape, fully loaded in colors I like. It will need the 55k service soon, nav doesn't seem to work (not a big deal to me, but it may need to be fixed for the warranty) and there is about 50-60 percent brake and tire life left. There is a lot of history on the carfax with 4 separate instances of struts being replaced (3 before DRC) and the DRC recall has been done. When I did some calling around to previous service centers, I found out that the previous owner complained about a loose accelerator about a year ago, and I don't think the torque converter has ever been replaced. Dealer is asking 28.5 right now. I will absolutely do a PPI before any purchase.

Fair deal or should I keep looking? Should I drive it again looking for specific symptoms?
While I'd rather find one locally, I would be willing to look out of state (though I'm pretty busy these days..).

5. Follow up question about the previous car: Two things I noticed when looking at it - When I was stopped at a light with the A/C on, my wife and I heard the sound of flowing water around the front right side of the car, behind the glove compartment. Is this normal, or is there something I should look for? It only happened once, so the sound will be hard to recreate. Doing internet searches on this type of sound (not specific to RS6) suggested air pockets in the cooling system requiring a flush, early symptoms of a head gasket problem, a water pump problem, or potential issues with A/C condenser. I just want to know if this is a normal sound on an RS6.

6. The second potential issue - it has black exhaust tips. One of them had a 2-3 inch patch of whiteness on it. Is this normal? I didn't feel the spot, but it didn't look powdery. It seemed dried on.

4. I'm getting quoted 6,800 for a 5yr/60k Fidelity dealer warranty with a 250 deductible on a car with 52k miles on it. That seems really high. I expected to pay 4-5k for a 100 deductible equivalent. Has anyone looked into pricing on this recently? Anyone Have a dealer you can refer me to with good warranty pricing? (I'm in Seattle, but I want to price shop the warranty).

5. Post-DRC recall, how often and how long is your car in the shop for things outside routine maintenance? I saw the full service records on another RS6 with twice as much mileage, and it has had problems with oil leaking consistently (presumably fixed by replacing turbos, but it still seems to have leaks) along with lots of quirky electrical issues and indicators that don't work properly.

6. Outside of routine maintenance, what doesn't the warranty usually cover (or rather, what didn't it cover for you personally outside maintenance)? I've looked through the exclusion list, and there isn't much, but I wanted to know what other consumable items I should be pricing into maintenance. Also, is the deductible per line item of repair - for example, if I bring in the car and 4 things need to be replaced to fix an issue, is that considered one repair with one deductible or 4 repair items?

7. The transmission seems like the biggest ticket item likely to fail after the recall. A local owner told me a nearby shop can rebuild it for 4k and that there isn't anything special about it - he said it was a typical ZF transmission, but I didn't ask if the repair cost was just for the torque converter. Does that sound right? I ask because if I can't get the price of the warranty down, I question it's value (pre-recall, I wouldn't think twice about it, but now..). After deductibles, assuming 4-8 repairs, I end up pre-paying for 9000+ of warranty coverage.

8. Finally, I've been reviewing a lot of carfax reports on RS6s. Some strange things that come up often: one wheel replaced. Why one? The one on this car mentions replacing a radiator and a camshaft during maintenance inspections. I wasn't able to confirm if this meant the radiator or camshaft actually needed to be replaced or if this is the terminology carfax reported for pulling the engine for normal maintenance.

Anyway, I'm just trying to take some of the fear out of owning a car that a lot of people seem to complain about from a reliability/maintenance perspective. Thanks in advance for any help!

[DHall1]

Where are you located? TX?

Go to your local Audi dealer service and have the service history pulled for this vin to confirm "camshaft + rad" components. Not a typical RS6 repair and I would worry if one of the cams needed replaced.

[DreamingOfCars]

My bad - sent individual reply.

Located in Seattle. The car was originally offered for sale by the local dealer who inspected it. They priced it too high to sell and ended up selling it to another local dealer. The local dealership is pricey but doesn't generally sell bad cars. They have a A+ 0 complaint history on BBB. Getting details about the car is hard - most shops won't tell you anything unless you currently own it and even then they are reluctant to share. I got verbal confirmation from every shop that the car didn't have anything funny wrong with it, and at least one said it looked like it was solid.

[ben916]

My bad - sent individual reply.

Located in Seattle. The car was originally offered for sale by the local dealer who inspected it. They priced it too high to sell and ended up selling it to another local dealer. The local dealership is pricey but doesn't generally sell bad cars. They have a A+ 0 complaint history on BBB. Getting details about the car is hard - most shops won't tell you anything unless you currently own it and even then they are reluctant to share. I got verbal confirmation from every shop that the car didn't have anything funny wrong with it, and at least one said it looked like it was solid.

Is this the Daytona Grey that was at Barrier for ever at $39k???

[DreamingOfCars]

I believe so. The current seller has also had it for 3 months. Tough to sell these at that price in this market. Did you know anything about the car?

[DHall1]

39k or anywhere close is crack pipe prices for a car with 52k and no ext warranty. IMHO

Even mint that car is 30k topps. Because you have to purchase a 5k ext warranty on top of it.

No way do I touch that car because random dealers said "it appears to be solid" Not at those prices.

IMHO if the current dealer wants to sell the car....put the burden on them to get the full Audi service records. All they have to do as current owners is go down to any Audi service and ask for the service printout.

Done

[DreamingOfCars]

The first dealer was trying to sell it for 39k.
This one is trying to get 28.5 assuming they don't fix anything.

I asked about pulling records, from multiple dealers about multiple cars. The response I always get is "Nobody wants to give out any info that might give another dealer a competitive advatage." I'm also not sure if one Audi dealer has access to records from a different Audi dealer. The car was sold at one dealership and serviced in 2 places in California, then it was sold CPO at another dealership in CA and serviced there, and finally it was bought at auction 2 times locally, one of those times it passed through the local dealer.

[DHall1]

All good points. This car has been around the block.

Have you personally inspected the car? Which Audi dealer do you plan to service the car? Here is one idea.

Contact selling dealer...tell them you want a PPI at the Audi dealer you choose. Then pay to have the car inspected. At the same time the inspecting Audi dealer should be willing to print the service history. There is no protected information in the print out...no prior owner information. And all Audi service records should be in the history...no matter where the dealer was located.

Good luck

BTW, 28,500 is dead bang on if the car checks out.

[twinsteve]

When I bought my RS6 last month, I called the two Audi servicing dealers of record (including the original selling dealer), explained why I was asking, and they faxed me the detailed records...no questions asked....

[DreamingOfCars]

I have personally inspected the car, noted in my long list above. I'm pretty sure my other questions will get lost in this thread. I should have broken this out into more threads, but I didn't want to spam the board.

To be clear I'm also trying to decide whether an RS6 is the car I want. I love the drive and it fits my needs at the moment, but I want to make sure I'm calculating upkeep costs correctly and know what to expect as far as shop work and gotchas outside of tranny/drc.

Thanks for the advice on the inspection/record checks.

[DHall1]

I have added comments below

First post here from someone considering an RS6. This forum is an awesome source of info. Ideally, I'd like to own the car for about 5 years. I spent several days reading through the forum, and now I have some follow up questions. I apologize in advance if some of this sounds dumb - I don't work on cars. This is longish, so even if you can only answer 1 or 2, that would be great:

1. I'm trying to pin down costs to run the beast. I'm assuming tires last about 15k, brakes about 25-30k, and I reviewed the cost of maintenance locally. Given that, it seems like the average cost per year to run (10k miles per year, barring failures not covered by warranties) is around 3k/year. Does that sound right?

Yep, seems like you have done your homework. Some years you wont spend that much and some years you may spend alittle more. Timing belt service year.

2. I've read up on the DRC issues. For those that had the recall installed properly, have you had additional costs or issues related to the suspension since then (other than subjective suspension stiffness preferences)?

I have had 0 problems and 0 costs after my DRC repair in July 09.

3. I'm looking at a car with 52k on the clock in good shape, fully loaded in colors I like. It will need the 55k service soon, nav doesn't seem to work (not a big deal to me, but it may need to be fixed for the warranty) and there is about 50-60 percent brake and tire life left. There is a lot of history on the carfax with 4 separate instances of struts being replaced (3 before DRC) and the DRC recall has been done. When I did some calling around to previous service centers, I found out that the previous owner complained about a loose accelerator about a year ago, and I don't think the torque converter has ever been replaced. Dealer is asking 28.5 right now. I will absolutely do a PPI before any purchase.

Fair deal or should I keep looking? Should I drive it again looking for specific symptoms?
While I'd rather find one locally, I would be willing to look out of state (though I'm pretty busy these days..).

Personal inspection makes a big difference. Are you happy with the car. After an extended test drive including hwy driving at a steady speed then rolling into the throttle....take it back and have the car Vag Com checked. (may be part of the Audi PPI). You are looking for torque converter slippage.

5. Follow up question about the previous car: Two things I noticed when looking at it - When I was stopped at a light with the A/C on, my wife and I heard the sound of flowing water around the front right side of the car, behind the glove compartment. Is this normal, or is there something I should look for? It only happened once, so the sound will be hard to recreate. Doing internet searches on this type of sound (not specific to RS6) suggested air pockets in the cooling system requiring a flush, early symptoms of a head gasket problem, a water pump problem, or potential issues with A/C condenser. I just want to know if this is a normal sound on an RS6.

Hard to tell. It could be the water running thru the heater core.

6. The second potential issue - it has black exhaust tips. One of them had a 2-3 inch patch of whiteness on it. Is this normal? I didn't feel the spot, but it didn't look powdery. It seemed dried on.

4. I'm getting quoted 6,800 for a 5yr/60k Fidelity dealer warranty with a 250 deductible on a car with 52k miles on it. That seems really high. I expected to pay 4-5k for a 100 deductible equivalent. Has anyone looked into pricing on this recently? Anyone Have a dealer you can refer me to with good warranty pricing? (I'm in Seattle, but I want to price shop the warranty).

Keep checking around. Try other Audi dealers and some indy companies. Zurich is one.

5. Post-DRC recall, how often and how long is your car in the shop for things outside routine maintenance? I saw the full service records on another RS6 with twice as much mileage, and it has had problems with oil leaking consistently (presumably fixed by replacing turbos, but it still seems to have leaks) along with lots of quirky electrical issues and indicators that don't work properly.

Zero problems in over two years. None, nada, ziltch.

6. Outside of routine maintenance, what doesn't the warranty usually cover (or rather, what didn't it cover for you personally outside maintenance)? I've looked through the exclusion list, and there isn't much, but I wanted to know what other consumable items I should be pricing into maintenance. Also, is the deductible per line item of repair - for example, if I bring in the car and 4 things need to be replaced to fix an issue, is that considered one repair with one deductible or 4 repair items?

Depends on contract. Fidelity is per service visit. Nothing quirky comes to mind on extra service cost items.

7. The transmission seems like the biggest ticket item likely to fail after the recall. A local owner told me a nearby shop can rebuild it for 4k and that there isn't anything special about it - he said it was a typical ZF transmission, but I didn't ask if the repair cost was just for the torque converter. Does that sound right? I ask because if I can't get the price of the warranty down, I question it's value (pre-recall, I wouldn't think twice about it, but now..). After deductibles, assuming 4-8 repairs, I end up pre-paying for 9000+ of warranty coverage.

Lots of people can say lots of things. Is this just a ZF trans? Yes, but do I want just anyone working on it? No. I want someone who has pulled 5 RS6 transmissions working on my car. There is so much crap to screw up on the back side of this engine.

8. Finally, I've been reviewing a lot of carfax reports on RS6s. Some strange things that come up often: one wheel replaced. Why one? The one on this car mentions replacing a radiator and a camshaft during maintenance inspections. I wasn't able to confirm if this meant the radiator or camshaft actually needed to be replaced or if this is the terminology carfax reported for pulling the engine for normal maintenance.

Who knows on the wheel question. I noted my concerns above on the camshaft.

Anyway, I'm just trying to take some of the fear out of owning a car that a lot of people seem to complain about from a reliability/maintenance perspective. Thanks in advance for any help!

[ben916]

First post here from someone considering an RS6. This forum is an awesome source of info. Ideally, I'd like to own the car for about 5 years. I spent several days reading through the forum, and now I have some follow up questions. I apologize in advance if some of this sounds dumb - I don't work on cars. This is longish, so even if you can only answer 1 or 2, that would be great:

1. I'm trying to pin down costs to run the beast. I'm assuming tires last about 15k, brakes about 25-30k, and I reviewed the cost of maintenance locally. Given that, it seems like the average cost per year to run (10k miles per year, barring failures not covered by warranties) is around 3k/year. Does that sound right?

2. I've read up on the DRC issues. For those that had the recall installed properly, have you had additional costs or issues related to the suspension since then (other than subjective suspension stiffness preferences)?

3. I'm looking at a car with 52k on the clock in good shape, fully loaded in colors I like. It will need the 55k service soon, nav doesn't seem to work (not a big deal to me, but it may need to be fixed for the warranty) and there is about 50-60 percent brake and tire life left. There is a lot of history on the carfax with 4 separate instances of struts being replaced (3 before DRC) and the DRC recall has been done. When I did some calling around to previous service centers, I found out that the previous owner complained about a loose accelerator about a year ago, and I don't think the torque converter has ever been replaced. Dealer is asking 28.5 right now. I will absolutely do a PPI before any purchase.

Fair deal or should I keep looking? Should I drive it again looking for specific symptoms?
While I'd rather find one locally, I would be willing to look out of state (though I'm pretty busy these days..).

5. Follow up question about the previous car: Two things I noticed when looking at it - When I was stopped at a light with the A/C on, my wife and I heard the sound of flowing water around the front right side of the car, behind the glove compartment. Is this normal, or is there something I should look for? It only happened once, so the sound will be hard to recreate. Doing internet searches on this type of sound (not specific to RS6) suggested air pockets in the cooling system requiring a flush, early symptoms of a head gasket problem, a water pump problem, or potential issues with A/C condenser. I just want to know if this is a normal sound on an RS6.

6. The second potential issue - it has black exhaust tips. One of them had a 2-3 inch patch of whiteness on it. Is this normal? I didn't feel the spot, but it didn't look powdery. It seemed dried on.

4. I'm getting quoted 6,800 for a 5yr/60k Fidelity dealer warranty with a 250 deductible on a car with 52k miles on it. That seems really high. I expected to pay 4-5k for a 100 deductible equivalent. Has anyone looked into pricing on this recently? Anyone Have a dealer you can refer me to with good warranty pricing? (I'm in Seattle, but I want to price shop the warranty).

5. Post-DRC recall, how often and how long is your car in the shop for things outside routine maintenance? I saw the full service records on another RS6 with twice as much mileage, and it has had problems with oil leaking consistently (presumably fixed by replacing turbos, but it still seems to have leaks) along with lots of quirky electrical issues and indicators that don't work properly.

6. Outside of routine maintenance, what doesn't the warranty usually cover (or rather, what didn't it cover for you personally outside maintenance)? I've looked through the exclusion list, and there isn't much, but I wanted to know what other consumable items I should be pricing into maintenance. Also, is the deductible per line item of repair - for example, if I bring in the car and 4 things need to be replaced to fix an issue, is that considered one repair with one deductible or 4 repair items?

7. The transmission seems like the biggest ticket item likely to fail after the recall. A local owner told me a nearby shop can rebuild it for 4k and that there isn't anything special about it - he said it was a typical ZF transmission, but I didn't ask if the repair cost was just for the torque converter. Does that sound right? I ask because if I can't get the price of the warranty down, I question it's value (pre-recall, I wouldn't think twice about it, but now..). After deductibles, assuming 4-8 repairs, I end up pre-paying for 9000+ of warranty coverage.

8. Finally, I've been reviewing a lot of carfax reports on RS6s. Some strange things that come up often: one wheel replaced. Why one? The one on this car mentions replacing a radiator and a camshaft during maintenance inspections. I wasn't able to confirm if this meant the radiator or camshaft actually needed to be replaced or if this is the terminology carfax reported for pulling the engine for normal maintenance.

Anyway, I'm just trying to take some of the fear out of owning a car that a lot of people seem to complain about from a reliability/maintenance perspective. Thanks in advance for any help!

Your numbering is AFU but whatever

1. The cost of running a beast is subjective to driving style and the state of the systems associated to that vehicle. Case in Point: jumped/sped to the non-audi dealership that had the car I ended up purchasing. Ask Dave, I was on the phone with him and I was bedazzled. Yes it was used and it was 4 PM in February and it was raining like I was Seattle so I really didn't get a great look at the car but once you spend some time looking at a beat one and then a perfect one, you will know the difference. I was signing the papers and realized I forgot to check the rotors: Sure as $hit! They were less than optimal, grooved with a lip on the outside. What am I to do? Pass on it? Not likely... OK, so I knew I was going to have to get some rotors and pads.
If you plan on using this as a daily driver, depending on the mileage you drive it, it could be in the range of $100/mo or $300/mo - not including fuel.
$100-125 oil change - could be less if you do it yourself - 5000-10000 miles
$80-100 spark plugs - 20000 miles or so
$20 cabin filter - 20000 miles or when it stinks
$40-50 assembly filters (2) - 20000 miles
$700-3500 for timing belt every 35000 miles
$800 - 1500 for tires - 10000 - 20000 miles depends on your driving style/tracking
$700 - 1000 for rotors - 10000 - 20000 miles depends on you.
$250 - 600 for trans flush/filter 20000 miles

2. no unless you want sway bars ($200-300 each) or shitcan all of it and KWv3 it ($2500)

3. Under the original warranty, the original owners more than likely went in to the stealership for ANY little noise (original owner of mine did and I have 37 pages to prove it). I am not sure what they were expecting as "body lowered 20mm, shocks with 40% increased compression damping, 30% stiffer spring rate". The problem with the onesy/twosey strut replacement was with the DRC and how it had to be pressurized properly otherwise it was for nothing... Do FL/RR or FR/RL or all of it.

0. Perhaps some of the Seattle contingent could comment on or shed light upon their vehicles. How long did you get to drive it? Make sure your water(in the middle) and oil (200) temp are nominal.

5. water sound? Since you are in Seattle where it does rain alot, make sure there isn't any water in the passenger foot well - if so, write down the VIN number and leave... Not sure if that sound is the radiator getting additional water pumped in or if the water pump is going south...

6. Powder on the tips? no clue but in my track days on my Ducati 916, we would run race gas and the residue on the pipes was not black but it was white/lt grey...

4. Aftermarket warranty - Fidelity is pricey and you will be encouraged/welcomed/forced/suggested to get a PPI before the Fidelity Warranty purchase... There are others out there but everything is based on the purchase mileage and the level of warranty. There is Prism or Protective or .... brain fart... Pat has a different one...eurotunedrs6 has a different one (seattle peep)...

5. There are some US RS6 that seem to be constantly in the shop (MMATURO's) and some that are never in the shop. Hit and miss, I guess.

6. Exclusion list is based on your aftermarket warranty. There are some things not covered like upper/lower control arms, rotors, electronics and it depends on the amount of coverage.

7. Trans rebuild - hmmm well there is TOZO89 that could do it. Aftermarket warranty should cover that or at least THAT would be one of the items that you would MAKE sure is on the COVERED list. MMATURO can surely convince you towards one or more aftermarket warranties...

8. ANY Audi service manager/personnel, when proved with the VIN, can/will pull up the entire service history (assuming it was all performed at an AUDI dealer) minus the original owner's personal information. My list has weird stuff like Steering column replaced twice, information center display replaced... The Carfax and Audi Stealership service history are not 1-1 correlated. Close but not.

Take your time and search for the right one.
Don't you think it is slightly odd that the price went from $39k to $28k???

If you find the right one, jump quickly.
Then be on the lookout for MaxRS6 and OZZY... and a ton of thread jacks

[DreamingOfCars]

Holy awesome responses - many thanks.

I would be suspicious on price if it wasn't Barrier - they consistently price cars 6-10k above market value and generally won't budge on price. Bellevue is suckersville for buying luxury cars. The new dealer is a non-franchised used car place. I'm guesstimating that between 5-15 people test drove it since February based on mileage, and most probably pass because it looks great outside but the interior definitely looks 7 years old - overall it's good, but if you look closely many pieces of the rubber have scratches/scuffs. People around here would probably rather buy an S6 or something newer. The economy still mostly stinks, and I think most people don't want to touch a 7 year old high performance car unless they got lots of cash, and in that case they would probably be looking for lower mileage models anyway.

I'm definitely willing to search, but I've been a little frustrated talking to private party sellers so far. Many of them don't have titles in hand, which means I'm risking cash, and one flat out lied about problems that I later found out about on another forum (different car - but he had some serious engine issues, electrical problems, and other random noises. I directly asked him about these things and he said it was fine before I found his posts).

[ben916]

I know all about Bellevue/Kirkland/Medina/Clyde Hill/Coal Creek/Redmond/Juanita.... Lived there (PM for the exact address) for 25 yrs. Same $hit here as La Jolla... University City...

Scratches on the interior on that rubberized crap on the window control - everybody has it. Not busting your balls but, it's a performance car, not a show car (unless you are Dave Hall with Mop-n-Glo)
At the end of the day, the driver's seat is worn - you are correct! It IS a 7yo car.

It IS about what you like and what you are willing to put up with, if anything or everything.
Who give a damn about others think? Especially in those places...
They gotta beef with it? Say hello to my German exhaust pipes in ya face and quickly accelerating away from the idjuts!

The 5-15 people were probably not serious purchasers and just wanted take it for a HARD spin as they had never seen or driven one...
Not sure what you could do about private party purchases but do what EBAY suggests (Caveat Empor)
Stick with a dealer but stay away from GO MOTORS

[skribe]

One wheel dealer replacement is very common because people hit potholes and bend them, most dealers just replace the wheel at big markup rather than send it out for trueing.

These cars can be pretty buggy, or nearly trouble-free. It's the luck of the draw.

No dealer ever gave me crap about pulling service history, that's strange.

I waited till I found the combo of a babied car that had virtually never been to the dealer for a problem, but that took me nearly a year. Even so, my EGT sensors went bad right off the bat, and my passenger intercooler leaked. And I ate my brand new tires in less than 10k, but I typically drive like a lunatic with misplaced aggression issues. My recalled DRC is losing pressure, it's a bad design and the car looks too high to my eyeball. I'm replacing it with Bilstein coilovers soon.

It's high maintenance no matter what, but worth it IMHO. Enjoy the hunt.

[DreamingOfCars]

More great responses - thanks.

I have no issues with the interior degradation and it doesn't affect my decision much(though my current car is 8 yrs old and the materials still look great, save for the leather on the seats). As for the look/age of the car - I love it, for many of the reasons other people do. It's not flashy like "hey look at me", but it has an attractive look. I was just trying to say that locals that don't know much about the car would probably take a newer, but less fun performance car because they do care about these things.

As to how I plan to drive the car, I don't plan to drive it like mad. It's supposed to be a family sedan, to make the ride to daycare/work and back more fun .

[JRS-RS6]

There is no protected information in the print out...no prior owner information.

Umm my service records show prior owners and so did their insurance cards etc. they left in the car. My 0.02. Great thread -- for 52K miles sounds a little steep without the warranty. My car last year was under 30K w/o warranty with 35K miles on it. Needed a few things but tune up, timing belt, brakes and winter tires along with battery and DRC were all brand new.

[hahnmgh63]

Barrier definitely had the car overpriced, I looked at it while it was there. Barrier does have a good service department so I would be surprised if they didn't check it out. It's not too bad of a price now if everything checks out but still a little high, even for Washington state. If you are willing to travel somewhere you can probably find a better price on a similar car, were definitely overpriced up here still.