GTR 7:26 vs ZR1 7:26 - Split screen

[Z07]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fhgmot1OfHw

[RXBG]

the ZR1 is the only real driver's car, and hence real car, of the two. sorry.

3 pedals = drive

2 pedals = guide

the GTR is one pedal short of the full monty.

i wonder how many GTR buyers would have gone for the three pedal option if there was one.

who cares about ring times. get out and drive!!!!!!!

[Benman]

the ZR1 is the only real driver's car, and hence real car, of the two. sorry.



who cares about ring times. get out and drive!!!!!!!

I think that is too harsh. I think we all know that if the V10 R8 E-Gear (whoops, Audi calls it something else) did the Ring in 7:24.5 we'd all be singing it's praises, tranny be DAMNED.

Ring times matter to us, but seem to not be "as" important when other manufactures get the better times. As for 2 pedals, I doubt the people who buy the Ferrari F430 Scuderia sequential tranny don't complain about not having a "real" car. Again, simply give credit where it is due, Nissan just plain kicked ass with that Beast.



Ben

[artur777]

Agree
GTR is really very good performer

[RXBG]

I think that is too harsh. I think we all know that if the V10 R8 E-Gear (whoops, Audi calls it something else) did the Ring in 7:24.5 we'd all be singing it's praises, tranny be DAMNED.

Ring times matter to us, but seem to not be "as" important when other manufactures get the better times. As for 2 pedals, I doubt the people who buy the Ferrari F430 Scuderia sequential tranny don't complain about not having a "real" car. Again, simply give credit where it is due, Nissan just plain kicked ass with that Beast.



Ben

"singing praises" of a theoretical DSG R8 and F430 owners' attitudes about a car they buy mainly for cachet are irrelevant. neither would be a real driver's car imo.

if the R8 had a DSG and conquered the ring i'd love it for the bragging factor at the local meet where everyone is bragging about their favorite brand or model. but i would always have that reservation about it- that it was not truly driven imo. and i'd STILL order my R8 with 3 pedals, even if it wasn't as fast as a DSG one.

again, this is a matter of opinion. that's all.

one day they'll make a car with "steering assist" that will be equipped with front cameras that read the road ahead and that coupled to a preloaded map will steer the car around the track for you, you'll be a redundant ride along with override capabilities. it'll be a fancy option. many will pay for it. ring times will dip to the 6 minute mark and drivers who have cars without that option will be saying what i am saying now.

you'll see. it'll happen when we are old and gray ben. then we'll both be on rocking chairs, smoking pipes, and finally seeing eye to eye.

for what its worth, since the M5 was offered with a manual (originally only with SMG) i've read that 2:1 it's sold that way over the SMG.

i truly, truly feel in my heart and based on talks with ferrari salesmen that 99% of buyers could care less about a manual tranny. half of buyers can't drive manuals!!!!!, and of the remaining ones half want the fastest shifting tranny for bragging purposes/car penis enlargement purposes. and the other half simply don't want the hassle. 1% ask about a true manual.

i applaud porsche, GM, and BMW for doing what they do. and i hope audi never lets me down either.

[Benman]

"singing praises" of a theoretical DSG R8 and F430 owners' attitudes about a car they buy mainly for cachet are irrelevant. neither would be a real driver's car imo.


you'll see. it'll happen when we are old and gray ben. then we'll both be on rocking chairs, smoking pipes, and finally seeing eye to eye.


i truly, truly feel in my heart and based on talks with ferrari salesmen that 99% of buyers could care less about a manual tranny. half of buyers can't drive manuals!!!!!

i applaud porsche, GM, and BMW for doing what they do. and i hope audi never lets me down either.

I don't feel it would be "irrelevant", but...

I will NEVER be old and grey and I already shave my head. But it very possible will may see eye to eye on this as we already do on other topics.

I feel the members here that do have F430s would disagree, but that is just my gut feeling.

I also hope manuals will always be offered, but we both know those days are numbered.

I guess going back to the point, the Nissan is an incredible achievement no matter what the tranny.

Ben

[Erik]

i wonder how many GTR buyers would have gone for the three pedal option if there was one.

Would make as much sense as the BMW M5 E60 with a stick...and they made it. Did it sell? Were the owners happy?

[Speedou]

Stick is important for cars like GT3, but not cars like GTR.

[Leadfoot]

Stick is important for cars like GT3, but not cars like GTR.

Having driven both systems (Ferrari semi-auto and proper manual) on the track I can honestly say that each are rewarding but in very different ways. The paddleshift allows the driver to concentration more on the rest of the controls and where to position and start braking the car on track (especially helpful if you are a beginner), where as the manual offers much more control over how the car behaves, plus gives that added connect with the car that is never really present with the other.

Would a GT3 or GT2 be that much quicker with such a setup? Frankly I don't really know but personally I think it would be marginal.

[Erik]

Stick is important for cars like GT3, but not cars like GTR.

The GT3 is in need of PDK as well, development is well overdue IMO.

The Flintstones used sticks, welcome to the future!

[Leadfoot]

The GT3 is in need of PDK as well, development is well overdue IMO.

That was my point about the benefits of paddleshift. Most current and future owners of GT3 type cars and new to the trackday events, usually have lots of money and as per-usual buy all the best kit for the job including the car, few have any real driving skill and PDK would offer them more time to concentrate of the other things that I mentioned above.

The Flintstones used sticks, welcome to the future!

The Flintstones also had non-puncturing wheels.

[Roger]

the ZR1 is the only real driver's car, and hence real car, of the two. sorry.

3 pedals = drive

2 pedals = guide

the GTR is one pedal short of the full monty.

i wonder how many GTR buyers would have gone for the three pedal option if there was one.

who cares about ring times. get out and drive!!!!!!!

Many would also say that RWD is the only real drivers car. But some of us would say give me all the technology you have and let me burn the asphalt.

Getting any car sideways out of a turn is fun with any tranny.

[Ruergard]

The Flintstones used sticks, welcome to the future!

Then I guess I belong to the Flintstone family then...

In a real drivers car I still wan't a stick..

[Speedou]

The GT3 is in need of PDK as well, development is well overdue IMO.

The Flintstones used sticks, welcome to the future!

You are right. My point was that GTR is very "playstation" and it really doesn't even need a stick. But GT3 is pure hard core and it should have PDK but aswell the stick for Flinstones like me

[Erik]

But GT3 is pure hard core and it should have PDK but aswell the stick for Flinstones like me

I agree. Let the buyer decide, not some old man at Porsche.