McLaren F1 vs Veyron - Top Gear Drag Race (Unexpected Result)

[chewym]

3. A roll race from 30mph in 2nd gear or 10mph in 1st gear would settle the issue.

What issue? Since when is this type of "race" a widely used performance benchmark?

[Ruergard]

It would have been nice a full on comparo between Zonda, Koenigsegg, Gumpert, the so called super car Ultimate Aero SSC and a couple of the classics thrown in for good measure Enzo, Carrera GT, LP670 SV.

That's something I'd really like to see. Veyron vs. CCX-R, perfect race.

On topic I think this outcome is a Top Gear outcome only. The Veyron is in a different league from the F1. At least in straight-line performance, cornering is something else. But that's my opinion until another race proves me wrong.

I really like Top Gear, but it's very much entertainment.

[Leadfoot]

The Veyron isn't 1s faster at the 1/4 mile the difference is about 1/2s. The Veyron does it in 10.4s and the F1 in <11s

Take a look at this movie:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsNUvDeu-j8
And the guys of Best Motoring used the 550hp version of the F1, Top Gear of course the 627hp.

And about AWD or RWD, that doesn't say anything. The McLaren can be very fast of the line as show in the movie above.
AWD is no guarantee that you'il be faster of the line.
Take a look at Top Gear when they did a drag race with the Zonda (RWD) vs Lambo Murcialago (AWD) The Lambo was spanked. Also the test saw in a magazine of the Porsche 997 Carrera 2s vs Carrera 4s. The 4s was 0.2s slower from 0-100kph.
So i think the F1 could be faster of the line because it's much lighter, of course at the end Veyron catches him.

Just back from holidays and watched the Topgear race on SKY+.

First the Bugatti wasn't using launch control, whether the owner of the car had requested Hamster not to use it or the more likely reason was that the lack of LC made for a tighter race and more entertaining viewing.

The reality is that when a Veyron uses LC it destroys cars like the F1. To match or better the Bugatti you also need at least similar amounts of power because as speeds build power to weight is not the deciding factor.

As for the difference between C2S and C4S, well the 911 never did have a traction problem in rwd form, i.e. the engine is in the optimum position for getting off the line quickly so adding awd only added more weight. What awd does do is make the 911 more user friendly with predictable handling compared to it's two wheel drive brother, this is true for just about every car I can think of, add awd and the car becomes easier to control near the limits.

What I would much prefer to see is a Veyron vs an F1 around somewhere like Silverstone against the stopwatch to see if technology is king over having the ultimate driving experience as Gordon Murray insisted having with the F1.

P.S.
I never knew there was indeed a 550hp version of the F1. Are you sure about that?

[Z07]

PS: roll races are for american cars that had a general dislike for cornering and other driving finesses

Explain why one of the best roll-racing cars is actually a Supra then.

[Z07]

What issue? Since when is this type of "race" a widely used performance benchmark?

Since reality.

[Zyklon5]

Explain why one of the best roll-racing cars is actually a Supra then.

I think it's a little besides the point, but i don't see a problem in the fact that a Japanese designed car is one of the best roll-racing .. as the top car on the Ring is an american ... I actually enjoy the looks of american cars but all around performance wise i don't see many great examples. CTS-V and Z06/ZR1 being the notable exceptions.

Roll races are idiot proof and that is the problem, add a fast automatic gearbox, lane departure warning and all you need to race is a monkey to hold on to the steering wheel ...

Disclaimer: this is a very personal stance and i do not expect everybody else to adhere to it .. so i'd rather not spoil the thread.

Since reality.

Please show me any kind of automotive press using roll race at all. 80 - 130 times in various gears maybe but NOTHING else that includes a rolling start.

Quarter Mile
Standing KM
Standing Mile
0-100 / 0 - 200 / 0 - 300 including the braking to standstill variations
Track testing

These are performance benchmarks ... rolling start not really.

[Clio16V]

Just back from holidays and watched the Topgear race on SKY+.

First the Bugatti wasn't using launch control, whether the owner of the car had requested Hamster not to use it or the more likely reason was that the lack of LC made for a tighter race and more entertaining viewing.

The reality is that when a Veyron uses LC it destroys cars like the F1. To match or better the Bugatti you also need at least similar amounts of power because as speeds build power to weight is not the deciding factor.

As for the difference between C2S and C4S, well the 911 never did have a traction problem in rwd form, i.e. the engine is in the optimum position for getting off the line quickly so adding awd only added more weight. What awd does do is make the 911 more user friendly with predictable handling compared to it's two wheel drive brother, this is true for just about every car I can think of, add awd and the car becomes easier to control near the limits.

What I would much prefer to see is a Veyron vs an F1 around somewhere like Silverstone against the stopwatch to see if technology is king over having the ultimate driving experience as Gordon Murray insisted having with the F1.

P.S.
I never knew there was indeed a 550hp version of the F1. Are you sure about that?

I've heard more magazine and TV programs about the 550hp F1
When you take a look at the full episode of Best Motoring you see that they report that the F1 they used had 550hp at 7000rpm.

Of course when the Veyron uses LC it will be faster than he did now but i'm sure not it will 'destroy' the F1 at the start.
For example the 0-60mph time difference for the M5 with or without LC is not much. Of course that is not quite a Veyron.

F1 owners could always upgrade the car with this:

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/att...de-package.pdf

[Leadfoot]

I've heard more magazine and TV programs about the 550hp F1
When you take a look at the full episode of Best Motoring you see that they report that the F1 they used had 550hp at 7000rpm.

I just checked the official McLaren website and all versions from the road car to the LM have had 627hp @ 7500rpm, so no version according the manufacturer has ever had only 550hp. May be that is why Best Motoring used the figure at 7000rpm instead.

Of course when the Veyron uses LC it will be faster than he did now but I'm sure not it will 'destroy' the F1 at the start.
For example the 0-60mph time difference for the M5 with or without LC is not much. Of course that is not quite a Veyron.

The M5 isn't a Veyron, hack it isn't even a RS6. Bad choice of car to use as an example. Oh and yes the Veyron would destroy an F1 with LC, what you witnessed in the TG program was a Veyron coming from a very poor start to passing the F1 at 240km/h and then pull out about 12 car lengths at the end of a 1 mile standing start race. In my mind that is pretty impressive.

F1 owners could always upgrade the car with this:

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/att...de-package.pdf

Considering that most examples of the F1 are worth close on 2 million pound I doubt too many would have their brain removed to seriously consider tuning it.

[Clio16V]

I don't think you're info about the F1 is correct.
The F1LM had more hp and torque, 680hp/705Nm, less weight, about 1060kg,and shorter gear ratios(not sure) so it accelerates like hell.

[Leadfoot]

I don't think you're info about the F1 is correct.
The F1LM had more hp and torque, 680hp/705Nm, less weight, about 1060kg,and shorter gear ratios so it accelerates like hell.

Sorry your are correct, I must have clicked the GT version instead.

But I am right about all the road going version though.

[Clio16V]

The 550hp F1 has maybe been a prototype with one of the first S70 engines that has been used at some programs and magazines.


Let's email Gordon

But one thing is sure, the Veyron is faster

[Leadfoot]

Let's email Gordon

Not bother, I'm having dinner with him tomorrow. will ask him then.

[Clio16V]

Send him my regards

[Erik]

Not bother, I'm having dinner with him tomorrow. will ask him then.

I had dinner with Gordon too yesterday. But it was Mr. Ramsay, at Heathrow.

[Clio16V]

LOL, that must haven been a nice dinner!

[Leadfoot]

I had dinner with Gordon too yesterday. But it was Mr. Ramsay, at Heathrow.

Great meal there, hope you enjoyed it.

[Erik]

The food was a little bit above average

I think in Top Gear (Issue 193, July 2009) they pretty much clear the case themselves, in their own words. As I said, it's excellent entertainment.

[Erik]

And...the McLaren F1 they used had the following specs:

627 hp
1.1138 kg
550 bhp per tonne
0-60 mph 3.2 secs
Top speed 240 mph

I would have liked to compare torque as well