TT RS Autocar drive impression

[Leadfoot]

using that principle you can say that an RS4 is build on a a simple A4 platform where TDI engines are built on too. platfourm used accross the board of other VAG cars including skodas...

how about an RS6 with base price at over 100000 EUR build on same platform as simple A6 TDI 140 b ase as well. plafor mused to build VW passats..... and SKODAS as well.....

you see the point I think...

You could use this principle to all brands of high performance models, Porsche's GT2 costs more than 2 times as much as a Carrera C2, the M3 costs twice as much as a 316i, etc, etc, etc, etc.

My real problem with the TT/RS is that they have placed items in the options list that were standard spec on a TT/S. MR should have been standard, as should 19" alloys, both things that would justify it's £10K increase over the TT/S.

Some reviewers are saying that Audi dropped the ball with the entertainment value of it's latest RS model, I don't know about that one but they definitely did on the overall value of what you are actually getting for your dosh. This product should not have commanded the same basic price as a Cayman S. NEVER.

In my mind it's £3k too dear.

[Canadian_RS4]

You could use this principle to all brands of high performance models, Porsche's GT2 costs more than 2 times as much as a Carrera C2, the M3 costs twice as much as a 316i, etc, etc, etc, etc.

My real problem with the TT/RS is that they have placed items in the options list that were standard spec on a TT/S. MR should have been standard, as should 19" alloys, both things that would justify it's £10K increase over the TT/S.

Some reviewers are saying that Audi dropped the ball with the entertainment value of it's latest RS model, I don't know about that one but they definitely did on the overall value of what you are actually getting for your dosh. This product should not have commanded the same basic price as a Cayman S. NEVER.

In my mind it's £3k too dear.

Yeah, and options on the TT-S are cheaper too methinks. TT-RS with options is the same price as an M3, which much faster, more fun, more practical except for the AWD.

[Marv]

Not in the UK you don't, you can spec sportdiff on it's own or with either damper control or the steering. I personally would pick the steering either as more assistance takes away from the experience.

You are right about the sports seats though, at £575 they aren't cheap but with that price you do get full leather.

BTW, I specced an S4 with S/Tronic and all the goodies and it's price came to £44k or roughly the same price as the starting price of the TT/RS.

Bit off topic but....
You do need dynamic steering with sport diff (check the latest spec pdf) - I think it's to do with the ESP interaction. It's a bit sad really, the dynamic steering is precise and has a good tunrs to lock ratio but it just feels unnatural. I'm still getting used to it.


I think we have much higher expectation of quattro gmbh RS cars after they produced the awesome b7 RS4 and whatever involvement they had in the R8 - the b7 RS4 has a flawed chassis what with all thet weight out in front of the nose and still they engineered a spectacular car. I was expecting the same miracle with the TTRS but it seems not to be.

[Leadfoot]

Bit off topic but....
You do need dynamic steering with sport diff (check the latest spec pdf) - I think it's to do with the ESP interaction. It's a bit sad really, the dynamic steering is precise and has a good tunrs to lock ratio but it just feels unnatural. I'm still getting used to it.

No, you need either dynamic steering or the damping control, one or the other but not both, sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

I think we have much higher expectation of quattro gmbh RS cars after they produced the awesome b7 RS4 and whatever involvement they had in the R8 - the b7 RS4 has a flawed chassis what with all thet weight out in front of the nose and still they engineered a spectacular car. I was expecting the same miracle with the TTRS but it seems not to be.

They had total involvement in the R8. The problem is the limitation bestowed with Haldex, you can only shift up to 50% of the power to the rear and no more, so at best it can reduce the onset of understeer but stop it completely. One thing I think we will find out about the TT/RS is that it has higher lateral Gs than the RS4 and thus will actually corner harder before understeer takes control.

Be in no doubt that the TT/RS is still an extremely quick car on the track and will probably be as quick as a Cayman and quicker than the RS4.

[OfftheHeZie]

If they just mounted the engine properly they could say screw Haldex and move on to their current torsen system in all other RS cars.

BTW, does anyone know for a fact, how the R8's AWD system is setup? I can't find any information on it. Not talking about the torque split, talking about the hardware.

~Mason

[The Pretender]

If they just mounted the engine properly they could say screw Haldex and move on to their current torsen system in all other RS cars.

BTW, does anyone know for a fact, how the R8's AWD system is setup? I can't find any information on it. Not talking about the torque split, talking about the hardware.

~Mason

[SigmaS6]

'Just' swapping the transversal engine with a longitudinal one including the adaptations to the gear box and rest of the drivetrain on a PQ platform car is probably the most expensive operation you could try. Plus the haldex itself is not the problem, look at the Veyron. The problem is that you can't detach the front axle, if they had put a second clutch in there you would be able to give more than 50% of the power to the back. But I guess they ran out of space with this idea as well...

[The Pretender]

The best solution would be a longitudinal inline five 2.5TFSI engine with the Nissan GT-R way.

[OfftheHeZie]

Very nice, thanks Pretender. I think the R8 uses a viscous coupling center diff and a torsen rear diff. Something about the torsen wasn't well equipped to handle such quick revvs. But the RS4 manages very well I think. Anyone confirm this? Guess it's not really important, but a different approach to their drive train than before.

Probably have this in the wrong forum too :/

~Mason

[Marv]

No, you need either dynamic steering or the damping control, one or the other but not both, sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

Leadie

Not wanting to pick an argument for the sake of it (especially not an S4 argument in a TTRS thread - sorry!) but I'd be pretty pissed of with Audi if you can order the sports diff without dynamic steering (I tried when I ordered mine - I didn't want the dynamic steering but was told I had to). Also, the May 09 spec guide for the A4 says: Audi quattro Sports differential (must be combined with Audi drive select with dynamic steering)

Not of course that Audi doesn't change things all the time just to piss its customers off - when I ordered my S4 in March you couldn't order the RS6 style wheels - grrrr

Anyway...back on topic

I've no doubt the TTRS will be faster round corners than the b7 RS4 it's just that the reviews so far seem to suggest the TTRS is lacking that extra bit of magic that quattro gmbh managed to distill into the RS4. The difference that sets an RS car apart form the standard S cars - it's not just about efficient speed and safety, it's the emotional fun thing that just puts a smile on your face whenever you drive it. Let's wait to see what the group tests bring...

[Leadfoot]

Leadie

Not wanting to pick an argument for the sake of it (especially not an S4 argument in a TTRS thread - sorry!) but I'd be pretty pissed of with Audi if you can order the sports diff without dynamic steering (I tried when I ordered mine - I didn't want the dynamic steering but was told I had to). Also, the May 09 spec guide for the A4 says: Audi quattro Sports differential (must be combined with Audi drive select with dynamic steering)

Not of course that Audi doesn't change things all the time just to piss its customers off - when I ordered my S4 in March you couldn't order the RS6 style wheels - grrrr

Marv, I don't know what to say, the info I have was prior to the S4 being launched and could indeed be old. But to my defence you can in fact config an S4 with sportsdiff without the need for either damping control or dynamic steering, the only thing you definitely need to add and the 'Audi configurator' does promte you is Audi select. According to it you can get Sportsdiff for only £740 (£460 for diff + £280 for Audi select).

So it appears that both of us were wrong.

Anyway...back on topic

I've no doubt the TTRS will be faster round corners than the b7 RS4 it's just that the reviews so far seem to suggest the TTRS is lacking that extra bit of magic that quattro gmbh managed to distill into the RS4. The difference that sets an RS car apart form the standard S cars - it's not just about efficient speed and safety, it's the emotional fun thing that just puts a smile on your face whenever you drive it. Let's wait to see what the group tests bring...

I've driven the TT/S quite a few times and never once did it leave me feeling that the driving experience was boring or that uninspiring. Maybe some people's expectations are different, I know that nothing else that Audi produces gets close to the experience you get from driving an R8 and if they (the press) are gauging the TT/RS on that experience then it's understandable to be left feeling a little cold.

Like yourself I patiently wait a proper comparison group test to see how it presents itself. If it's compared against a Cayman S then I know it won't have it's involvement, few cars do, but apart from the P cars I would expect the TT/RS to be as good as the rest on this. OK maybe the 370z will be a more intense experience but after that it should be top. And as I have already said the TT/RS will be the match of the best on the track.

[Leadfoot]

Right, I have finally read Jamie's full article for AUTOCAR.

Basically the engine is very much the star of the experience, it appears to have incredible acceleration EVERYWHERE, regardless of rev point or gear which is something that one couldn't say about any extremely high revving, high performance N/A car and that includes the likes of the RS4, M3 and even the R8v8. Comments like 'whips up to its 155mph limit with comical ease' and 'not only outpunch a Cayman S but also trouble a 911' tells you that this is like no other TT.

His also reckons that it's cross country pace must far outpunch it's power to weight, again his most telling comment is 'there are faster cars than the TT/RS, but across roads like these (narrow in places, with odd cambers and tightening apexes) the list would be short and include serious names like the 911 GT3.' Most of it's pace in these conditions are to do with the engine and it's flexibility but also the ease with how it can be placed on the road and the confidence the car brings.

The major controls like steering, brakes and throttle are more precise and meatier than the TT/S which if you think is pretty good already then they will be very pleased with the TT/RS.

Negative points are the normal ones. The quattro system used in the TT/RS doesn't allow for the throttle adjust-ability that is present in it's rwd rivals or even the RS4, but then only the RS4 has the same all-weather pace that no rwd rival can muster. But the one that is the bigger surprise is it's suspension control quality and how bumps affect it. The test car as with most reviews was equipped with 19" and standard sports suspension, maybe this setup looks best but I will expect a 18" with MR to perform like night and day better.

The impression I got from the review was a promising car that does move things on from where the TT/S left off but unlike the TT/S where nothing single element shouted out as better than any other, in the TT/RS the engine is the star and all the rest can't quite live up to it's standard or character. It's a car that most will pick over the likes of the SLK55 and Z4 sDrive35i but it's not as rewarding a drive as the Cayman S and to ask the same money means you are choosing the TT over the Porsche for more personal reasons than ability and entertainment.

[Qisha]

Dear Friends,

keep the faith!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvumpR3HMyU

Qisha

PS: who catches sight of the special Pacecar?

[Leadfoot]

Dear Friends,

keep the faith!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvumpR3HMyU

Qisha

PS: who catches sight of the special Pacecar?

OK, I have viewed it a few times and I see both pacecars (each TT/RS models) but because of the poor video I can't tell what is special about them.

Does one have livery for the likes of LeMans (i.e. official 24hr LeMans pacecar)?

[Qisha]

Dear Leadfoot,

there have been several TT Pace cars over the years:

Qisha

[Leadfoot]

I take it from this that I was correct and the pacecar is the video is indeed the pacecar that will be at this year's LeMans race.

P.S.
I am so in love with the engine note of the TT/RS, Audi really do need to bring this engine to a much wider audience.

[Leadfoot]

Maybe Qisha can confirm this or not but I was told to expect the TT/RS to post a 10.8s time for 160km/h and 16.1s for 200km/h. If true these are very good times that combined with it's low weight and undoutable grip should make for some very interesting track times to be expected with it's first proper testdrives.

[youry]

the 0 to 200Km/h is officially stated at 15.9 sec.