New RS5 mule pics

[Leadfoot]

Incontinence problems.

Ain't that the truth.

[Rutkowsky]

The M6 is only amazing when view solely on it's straight line speed and acceleration ability. It's not a car that anyone instantly thinks about when handling is mentioned, but enough of the M6 it's a model that already on it's way out and the new one will be even quicker again than before so will move to a performance level well out of reach of the RS5.

P.S.
I have my diapers on so bring on the RS5 now, I'm ready.

To me an M6 is more than just an acceleration Leadie. I for one, love the looks and i get a lot of positive comments from people. It is also the feeling when you drive this beastie, the sound the rock solid feel at top speeds, the great balance when you brake hard and most of all - the wide sweeping bends @ XXX speeds where legal of course.

The next generation will be mental IMO. The X6M, despite weighing 1000kgs more than CSL beats it to 100km/h and has the same 100mph time, madness!!

[QuattroFun]

BMW M3 DSG (CO2 285/EU4/420PS) is still pretty efficient. However, that car is two years old and technology-wise, Panamera 4S PDK is a far more interesting benchmark for the RS5: heavy 4WD car, 400PS and 500Nm from 4.8L NA V8 combined with EU5 and merely 260 CO2. Not bad at all in my books. I find it strange that Audi launched the R8 V10 with only EU4 and the CO2 for the R-tronic of 327 is hardly impressive, although economy is of course not here the first priority. Audi should improve its efficiency - significantly.

[audi_ch]

To me an M6 is more than just an acceleration Leadie. I for one, love the looks and i get a lot of positive comments from people. It is also the feeling when you drive this beastie, the sound the rock solid feel at top speeds, the great balance when you brake hard and most of all - the wide sweeping bends @ XXX speeds where legal of course.

The next generation will be mental IMO. The X6M, despite weighing 1000kgs more than CSL beats it to 100km/h and has the same 100mph time, madness!!

of course the next m5/6 generation will be a step forward, rumers say next m6 will be more than a match for the lp560, so we all know what is coming up.

But the way how they gonna make it, that is the question, away from the high reving engines to the turbo generation..., that is a big change for the m gmbh and its futur owners

[artur777]

is it possible to have high-revving turboes with next M6?

[audi_ch]

is it possible to have high-revving turboes with next M6?

possible yes, but not likely at all. the v8 biturbo is the favorit...
due to coast, emission and fuel consomption..

[Leadfoot]

is it possible to have high-revving turboes with next M6?

It all depends on your opinion of high revs. The norm for a turbo v8 is about 6500-6700rpm at the upper limit so anything over that could be classed as high revving, but I doubt you will see anything like the 8500rpm limit that the past M6 had, maybe something closer to 7000-7300rpm will be nearer the true figure.

The real skill will be matching the torque curve to the power curve, too high a rev limit and you will need to shift the torque curve higher up the rev range which will create lag, best to start the torque at 1300-1500rpm and run it to about 5500rpm, I think the RS6 is a perfect example of how to make a great turbo engine.

[artur777]

It all depends on your opinion of high revs. The norm for a turbo v8 is about 6500-6700rpm at the upper limit so anything over that could be classed as high revving, but I doubt you will see anything like the 8500rpm limit that the past M6 had, maybe something closer to 7000-7300rpm will be nearer the true figure.

The real skill will be matching the torque curve to the power curve, too high a rev limit and you will need to shift the torque curve higher up the rev range which will create lag, best to start the torque at 1300-1500rpm and run it to about 5500rpm, I think the RS6 is a perfect example of how to make a great turbo engine.

I see your point - but is it possible to play with turboes and make them variable to work in wide broad of revvs? is it possible to make good torque curve from 1300 till 7000 rpms with the engine max-revvs at about 8000 rpms? Could be nice to combine high-revving with advantages of turboes setup...

[Leadfoot]

I see your point - but is it possible to play with turboes and make them variable to work in wide broad of revvs? is it possible to make good torque curve from 1300 till 7000 rpms with the engine max-revvs at about 8000 rpms? Could be nice to combine high-revving with advantages of turboes setup...

I don't think such a torque band is possible at the moment, if it were then someone would have done it by now and as BMW's N/A M engines have always revved to the heavens I would have thought that the new X5M with it's twin turbo V8 would have done it, but alas no. I know that variable turbos can produce a strong torque range but it's usually done to reduce lag.

Maybe you're looking for a quad turbo setup, a small and large turbo per bank, marvel at the power and to hell with the weight.

[KresoF1]

I see your point - but is it possible to play with turboes and make them variable to work in wide broad of revvs? is it possible to make good torque curve from 1300 till 7000 rpms with the engine max-revvs at about 8000 rpms? Could be nice to combine high-revving with advantages of turboes setup...

High revs are not possible with turbo-limit of current technology and turbo layout in general. If you look at current SOTA turbos-for example RS6 V10 rev limit is about at 6800rpm. About 7000rpm is a maximum for smaller turbo engines.

Next thing is torque curve... For example 997 Turbo should feel very strong at low revs and lag free... BUT, it is not.

I will not go in depth here... Just, I would rather see 4.0L V8 TFSI with kompressor a la S4(or better Jaguar XFR/XKR-since new 5.0L is a masterpiece) then biturbos a la RS6.

Since Qisha suggested combines induction(a la small 1.4TSI) I am looking forward to see how will it work.

[artur777]

I don't think such a torque band is possible at the moment, if it were then someone would have done it by now and as BMW's N/A M engines have always revved to the heavens I would have thought that the new X5M with it's twin turbo V8 would have done it, but alas no. I know that variable turbos can produce a strong torque range but it's usually done to reduce lag.

Maybe you're looking for a quad turbo setup, a small and large turbo per bank, marvel at the power and to hell with the weight.

I agree with you.
Quad turbo setup - do we have an example of this in our life?

[artur777]

High revs are not possible with turbo-limit of current technology and turbo layout in general. If you look at current SOTA turbos-for example RS6 V10 rev limit is about at 6800rpm. About 7000rpm is a maximum for smaller turbo engines.

Next thing is torque curve... For example 997 Turbo should feel very strong at low revs and lag free... BUT, it is not.

I will not go in depth here... Just, I would rather see 4.0L V8 TFSI with kompressor a la S4(or better Jaguar XFR/XKR-since new 5.0L is a masterpiece) then biturbos a la RS6.

Since Qisha suggested combines induction(a la small 1.4TSI) I am looking forward to see how will it work.

So you think that high-revvng is not the way to go instead of going to comdined induction way - SC and Turbo in one engine... Tend to agree.

Regarding Turbo - let's see the upper revvs limit for facelifted one - could it be higher than 7000 rpms?

BTW - is it possible to make high-revving SC engine with max revvs at about 7500-8000 rpms?

[Leadfoot]

I agree with you.
Quad turbo setup - do we have an example of this in our life?

That was sarcasm, nothing more.

[Leadfoot]

So you think that high-revvng is not the way to go instead of going to comdined induction way - SC and Turbo in one engine... Tend to agree.

Regarding Turbo - let's see the upper revvs limit for facelifted one - could it be higher than 7000 rpms?

BTW - is it possible to make high-revving SC engine with max revvs at about 7500-8000 rpms?

I think with SC you have a better chance because it's torque curve/lag isn't as important low down as with a turbo engine. I believe you could go higher than we are currently seen with turbo powered motors but something will have to give and that may well be lag.

I reckon Audi are going to produce something that will turn our opinion of forced induction engines on it's head.

P.S.
What's the big deal of having your turbo engine running to 7800-8000rpm anyway?

[youry]

guys don't you think that talking about M6 here is out of scope.... for one or two messages why not, but if more is needed open a new thread no ?

[artur777]

guys don't you think that talking about M6 here is out of scope.... for one or two messages why not, but if more is needed open a new thread no ?

what do you have against it, mate?

[Rutkowsky]

it's all on topic - talking competition set ups etc. is all good!!

I still have my e46 M3 (over three years now) and this is my project car now. Brakes, Bilstein, Recaros carbon CSL body panels etc etc plus AutoWerke 525bhp supercharger. As you know, the e46 M3 revs to 8000 and there's no issues whatsoever. It should be a fast car!!

[Rutkowsky]

I have also 'overheard' rumours of the next generation M6 to be faster than LP 560-4. It will be simply an insane car. Roll on Gustav's 2011 airfield races!!

2011 can't come soon enough for me...