Whaaa? No one on here is probably under 23.Originally Posted by RXBG
clean them well then apply some 303 protectant. easy to clean after all that. same with the engine vents.
btw- have fun, but plz watch the expletives. we let them fly from time to time in our excitement. but this is a family show
Qisha,Dear Friends,
talking about "most advanced" or "best of all" Dual Clutch Transmission...
Getrag supplies the BMW and Ferrari option. The Ferrari transaxle version is good for 750NM and achieves a spread ratio range between 4.7 and 6.1. and all of this for 9.000 rpm+. Parallel developed BMW version is a bit weaker, 600NM (also 9.000 rpm: M3) as well as the 2nd version (top engine speed 7.500 rpm: f.e. 335i) with a wider ratio range for better fuel economy.
The ZF version, a cooperate development with Porsche is the most advanced system on the market (right now). Transfering a max of 700NM (450NM in transaxle version) and beeing able to cope 8.000 rpm, not as "strong" as the Getrag product but lighter, better cooling flow, the fastest shift times and the wider band of "shift mode options" marks the 7DT45 as the reference Dual Clutch Transmission so far.
...most likely until the end of 2009, early 2010 as a 8 speed Version is on the way...
Anyway, it is all up to personal need, likes or dislikes and personal taste. The differences are small and to me are more a matter of software...
Fuel economy and Co2 regulations, the advantage here is 5-10% (depending on TCU) over a manual.
The Purist will always choose a manual...
Qisha
You are the man to ask on this. It has always been said that DSG/S-Tronic was a co-developed program with VAG and Porsche, if so then was the same true for the newer version used with the Torsen quattro system.
You say that most of the differences between them is software, does that mean that their basic design is very similar but the design is of less importance over how they actually behave because of the software.
Now the really important question that most here would like answered, how good in the new S/Tronic in comparison to the PDK, M-DGK, Nissan's DCT and Ferrari's version.
Search and you will find the truth.
Hey.. Thanks for that one.... :eye:
Thanks for a lot of very interesting reading and good facts as always from Qisha in this thread.
I'm wondering the same thing as Leadie, will the S-Tronic be as good as we all hope?
Dear Leadfoot,
it depends on the application you intend to use. Further you got to define how high you rate economy. The 7 gear versions do apply to both, you can get a short 1st gear for outstanding acceleration but keep a long spreaded 7th gear to cope with economy. As there is no natural shift time, looking at Dual Clutch Transmissions, the software is what makes the driver "feel" the workflow of the drivetrain. Now it is up to the brand, how much scalability do you want within the drivers hand. This is so flexible, from fix to multiple choice environment. If we take the Audi S-tronic for longitudinal applications, this system is engineered to be multiflexible in its characteristic. To get the most out of it, the quattro Sport differential option is a must. It affiliates perfect with the S-tronic. In the actual model lifecycle the 550NM and 9.000rpm are sufficient for applicated needs. All named Dual Clutch Transmission run "wet" (clutch), due to cooling issues. This is a compromise between lifetime reliability and efficiency. As you can imagine a dry running transmission would be lighter, more efficient, easier to control and cost friendlier. Ricardo (Bugatti Veyron) is working in this direction.
So, you can make the the trasmission match the cars character, in short terms: "behave" like a driver might want to feel it. For example A4/A5 "sporty" the S4/S5 is "sport" and a RS4/RS5 would be "supersport". Take a look at the RS6 and its autobox, shift times and impression are matched to the car. Overall the S-tronic does a good job and you get what you expect...
The future will bring stronger, more efficient, lighter and of course hybrid solutions.
Qisha
Thanks for that explanation Qisha.
You mention 'sportier' in application with the S4/5 but without knowing how the S4/5's S/Tronic behaves what do you mean by this, will it kickdown quicker than in the A4/5 or does it have that dreaded 'jerkiness' that Porsche and BMW have. Also if the 'jerk' isn't present in the S4/5 will in be there in the RS4/5.
P.S.
The only thing I disliked was the comments at the end 'Hybrid', it's such a nasty word and adds extra weight instead of reducing it. Then there is the problem of the battery lifespan and deposing of them when done, next there is the cost of replacements.
I don't want this thread getting off track when it's mainly about the R8v10 but I would love another thread solely discussing what is the possible futures when oil runs out.
Search and you will find the truth.
Dear Qisha,
thanks for the explanation.
The most interesting will be to see software tuning for RS4/RS5 - will it be similar to M-DCT S5 and PDK Super-Sport?
Another interesting conclusion - RS4/RS5 will have less than 550Nm of torque for S-Tronic to cope with it.
As we have already seen with R8 V10 - the engine is NA, FSI and revvs up to 8700 rpm, it could be repeated with 4.2L NA for RS4/RS5 and it will be more powerful and efficient than 4.2L of the older version. On the other hand, FI engines also could be maintained because 550Nm of torque is quite high figure.
Sorry to hijakc - but tell me about this 303 stuff???
clean them well then apply some 303 protectant. easy to clean after all that. same with the engine vents.
btw- have fun, but plz watch the expletives. we let them fly from time to time in our excitement. but this is a family show
Here you go - it's a very popular product with detailers:
http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/interi.../prod_366.html
2003 Audi S4 saloon (gone but not forgotten...)
1998 Audi A4 1.9TDi quattro Sport saloon
At least one of you is wrong.
haha, read the other 36 pages of argument. Of note, there are definitely people younger than 23 on this thread, being 19 here.
Judging from the side-by-side pics of the R8 V8 and V10 versions, I think the R8 V8 simply looks cleaner. Why would Audi highlight the height of the V10 by adding bright vertical strips to the grille, and reducing the number of horizontal front intake blades (or whatever we should call those)? The V10 also has an bump in the side blade that messes up the smooth design of that area of the car...and those wheels...and the prices increase, whatever it comes to...
Hmmm...performance-wise, the V8 version posted one of the fastest TopGear lap times anyway...if I were an R8 V8 owner, I would not be worried.
Count me in at 20 here.
The V8 version looks cleaner for sure, but give the V10 a nicer set of rims and i till be spot on. The wider blades looks perfect!
Having a V8 powered R8 I wouldn't be worried at all about anything I guess.... One of, or maybe the best useable sportscar ever made so far...
Until that V10 monster comes along that is...
Thanks for a great explanation Qisha, full of facts as always.
^20 and has an R8. I'd ban him.
I'd marry him^20 and has an R8. I'd ban him.
Meh, whatever. There was a thread on the other board about owner age/career and I didn't remember seeing anyone young than me, so I just said 23.
I don't like R8s that much.I'd marry him
i´ve had a ride in a black one...
Just have one word and a sentence for you :
AWESOME! I´ve got to have one.
Suzuka-Grey would be just my colour
A little bit of a misstake here, I really don't have en R8. Not that I wouldn't wan't have one..^20 and has an R8. I'd ban him.
I dislike you a little less already.
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