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Thread: R8 V10...

  1. #1
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    R8 V10...

    ...is maybe coming in Paris.

    So, lets start the thread about it(again)!

    Power fact-386kw/525ps as we already know from ETKA...

    Here are provisional color combos for R8 V10:

    Phantom Black/Lava Grey
    Ibis White/Ice Silver
    Daytona Grey/Quartz Grey
    Ice Silver/Apollo Silver
    Brilliant Red/Brilliant Red
    Sepang Blue/Sepang Blue

    Interesting, isn't it?

    Carbon Sigma and Oxygen Silver side blades will be option from the start also.

    I can not tell you more right now...

  2. #2
    Registered User The RS6's Avatar
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    That sepang blue should look awesome! Do you know the torque figures?

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    540Nm...

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    Registered User Leadfoot's Avatar
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    525hp+400ft/lbs isn't really going to set the world alight, but it should provide the R8 with a much needed boost to help it compete with the other supercars out there.

    The only thing that the R8 has which most other don't is it's perfectly balanced chassis that is so controllable and easy to drive hard regardless of the road and weather conditions.
    Search and you will find the truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leadfoot View Post
    The only thing that the R8 has which most other don't is it's perfectly balanced chassis that is so controllable and easy to drive hard regardless of the road and weather conditions.
    Well, I do not agree fully with you. Why?

    R8 chassis is indeed almost perfect for me BUT, with ESP off this car requires drivers knowledge and respect. In this mode car is natural oversteer animal without a hint of traditional Audi understeer... In fact I will repeat again-R8 is as far as possible in drive dynamics and overall feel from all current Audi models.

    My point R8 is easy to drive hard car when you get used to it or learn how to drive it fast. In begginer hands it could be dangerous car(as can be any Porsche, Ferrari or Lambo)...

  6. #6
    Admin Erik's Avatar
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    Mid-engined cars have always been difficult to drive or "dangerous" to drive, you have to be quick as a cobra to catch them.
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  7. #7
    Registered User Z07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    Mid-engined cars have always been difficult to drive or "dangerous" to drive, you have to be quick as a cobra to catch them.
    Are they as bad as FF cars? The rear end hardly ever lets go with FF but when it does, you may as well just assume the crash position because it isn't coming back.

    With FR the rear is lost more easily but it comes back much more easily too. Never had the experience of catching my ass in an MR, only drove one briefy on a track day gift package.

  8. #8
    Moderator RXBG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z07 View Post
    Are they as bad as FF cars? The rear end hardly ever lets go with FF but when it does, you may as well just assume the crash position because it isn't coming back.

    With FR the rear is lost more easily but it comes back much more easily too. Never had the experience of catching my ass in an MR, only drove one briefy on a track day gift package.

    agree on the FF. scariest thing in the world is an oversteering FF. sure, you have to drive like a jack ass to get it that way but then.... good luck.

    afaic my R8 is the safest car i've ever driven or owned- at least at the regular speeds of an average joe like me. it takes some learning to get to know what to do if this or that happens but overall much more confidence inspiring than my S4.
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    Sorry for my lack of knowledge, but:

    FF- front-front
    MR - mid-rear
    FR - front-rear

    am I right?

  10. #10
    Registered User Leadfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z07 View Post
    Are they as bad as FF cars? The rear end hardly ever lets go with FF but when it does, you may as well just assume the crash position because it isn't coming back

    With FR the rear is lost more easily but it comes back much more easily too. Never had the experience of catching my ass in an MR, only drove one briefy on a track day gift package.
    Totally crap, a FWD car is easier to catch then anything else, the problem is knowing what to do in any of them and not to panic when it happens.

    In FWD when the tail steps out all you need do is apply more throttle to bring the nose wide and regain control. RWD is more predictable but harder to control when it steps out, you need to be ready with opposite lock and control the throttle as a tank slapper will result in you being thrown off in the direction the tail stepped out, plus the angle of slip where it is recoverable is much less than FWD.

    Mid-engined cars are like rear-engined cars but to a lesser degree, you get the pendulum effect going on where it's easy to have to tail snaking progressively worse until it finally goes.

    Kerso is correct that taking the ESP off you need to have your whits about you but it's probably the easiest of all Mid-engined cars to control which was what I meant in the first place.
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  11. #11
    Registered User Z07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artur777 View Post
    Sorry for my lack of knowledge, but:

    FF- front-front
    MR - mid-rear
    FR - front-rear

    am I right?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leadfoot
    Totally crap, a FWD car is easier to catch then anything else, the problem is knowing what to do in any of them and not to panic when it happens.
    Not in my experience. The only time it oversteers is after momentary understeer. The front suddenly grips and the rear slingshots itself round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leadfoot
    In FWD when the tail steps out all you need do is apply more throttle to bring the nose wide and regain control. RWD is more predictable but harder to control when it steps out, you need to be ready with opposite lock and control the throttle as a tank slapper will result in you being thrown off in the direction the tail stepped out, plus the angle of slip where it is recoverable is much less than FWD.
    Not in my experience. Your theory is correct for FWD but in practice it just isn't that simple. Regaining control of either a 200SX, RWD skyline or AWD skyline is far easier than regaining control of say a Mondeo or a Vectra. The thing to note is the method by which the rear end is lost. RXBG hit the nail on the head, you have to go stupid to lose the rear with FWD but when it does happen the car's basically gone. I've done a lot of airfield experimentation with this. The problem isn't helped by the fact that most FWD cars have sod all torque or power to pull you out. You might have more luck with a touring car or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leadfoot
    Mid-engined cars are like rear-engined cars but to a lesser degree, you get the pendulum effect going on where it's easy to have to tail snaking progressively worse until it finally goes.

    Kerso is correct that taking the ESP off you need to have your whits about you but it's probably the easiest of all Mid-engined cars to control which was what I meant in the first place.
    I'll take your word for that. I've only had a few laps in a 355 on a track day gift package and I wasn't about to start practicing with the rear end. Back in the '90s people would actually have given a shit if a 355 was written off.

  12. #12
    Moderator RXBG's Avatar
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    ....the scariest moment i have ever had in a car was going only 40 mph in a honda accord when i suddenly encountered a curve that was twice as tight as i thought it was and hit wet pavement at the same time. i didn't know wtf was happening...
    Past- A4, TT, S4

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  13. #13
    Registered User Leadfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z07 View Post
    Not in my experience. The only time it oversteers is after momentary understeer. The front suddenly grips and the rear slingshots itself round.
    Only in certain types of fwd cars. You have to remember that most cars including fwd ones are by design meant to push the nose (understeer) when you go to fast. But the kind that have a playful tail are the kind you see on trackdays, mostly Honda Type Rs of one sort or another but you could include the new Mini, the Focus ST and RS, the Golf GTI MkV and the TT 2.0TFSi among a few.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z07 View Post
    Not in my experience. Your theory is correct for FWD but in practice it just isn't that simple. Regaining control of either a 200SX, RWD skyline or AWD skyline is far easier than regaining control of say a Mondeo or a Vectra. The thing to note is the method by which the rear end is lost. RXBG hit the nail on the head, you have to go stupid to lose the rear with FWD but when it does happen the car's basically gone. I've done a lot of airfield experimentation with this. The problem isn't helped by the fact that most FWD cars have sod all torque or power to pull you out. You might have more luck with a touring car or something.
    Sorry but it is that simple. I have driven the Fiesta Rallycar on quite a few occasions and the style of driving is almost identical to either the Subaru (AWD) or any RWD car you care to name. The tail is used in the exact same way to control the car and once it's sideways you use the throttle to bring the nose wide and regain control, it's that simple.

    The same technique is used on the track when the tail steps out (by design), the only difference is that most fwd cars are not designed to throw the tail, only the nose and most people aren't knowledgeable to know what to do when the occasion arises, most hit the brake which is what not to do, when that is done the tail keeps going, but the same is true for rwd as well.

    The simple truth is that with both awd and fwd you can control the car with a much greater slip angle than you can with a rwd car, regardless of make or model.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z07 View Post
    I'll take your word for that. I've only had a few laps in a 355 on a track day gift package and I wasn't about to start practicing with the rear end. Back in the '90s people would actually have given a shit if a 355 was written off.
    Trust me, I know this from experience. The pendulum effect is extremely difficult to control and it's really only present in mid and rear engined cars. But in their defence you do have to drive them differently and their ability in the dry and wet are very similar, more so the mid-engined car.
    Search and you will find the truth.

  14. #14
    Registered User Z07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leadfoot View Post
    Only in certain types of fwd cars. You have to remember that most cars including fwd ones are by design meant to push the nose (understeer) when you go to fast. But the kind that have a playful tail are the kind you see on trackdays, mostly Honda Type Rs of one sort or another but you could include the new Mini, the Focus ST and RS, the Golf GTI MkV and the TT 2.0TFSi among a few.



    Sorry but it is that simple. I have driven the Fiesta Rallycar on quite a few occasions and the style of driving is almost identical to either the Subaru (AWD) or any RWD car you care to name. The tail is used in the exact same way to control the car and once it's sideways you use the throttle to bring the nose wide and regain control, it's that simple.

    The same technique is used on the track when the tail steps out (by design), the only difference is that most fwd cars are not designed to throw the tail, only the nose and most people aren't knowledgeable to know what to do when the occasion arises, most hit the brake which is what not to do, when that is done the tail keeps going, but the same is true for rwd as well.

    The simple truth is that with both awd and fwd you can control the car with a much greater slip angle than you can with a rwd car, regardless of make or model.
    You're talking about a rally car and you're talking about more sporty FWD cars that can give more progressive oversteer. The average FWD cars will not handle like that and simply don't have the power to pull the car straight and in the wet will not have the traction to do so either. When the front end boat anchors itself, it will just pitch the rear end around almost instantaneously. I've driven a fair few so I'm speaking from experience here. At times the rear end may not even be touching the road during an FWD oversteer, and if it is, probably only with one wheel and that's part of the problem - no/little rear end grip to stop the rear from swinging.

    Given the choice between catching RWD oversteer and FWD oversteer, I'm going with RWD everytime.

  15. #15
    Registered User Leadfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z07 View Post
    You're talking about a rally car and you're talking about more sporty FWD cars that can give more progressive oversteer. The average FWD cars will not handle like that and simply don't have the power to pull the car straight and in the wet will not have the traction to do so either. When the front end boat anchors itself, it will just pitch the rear end around almost instantaneously. I've driven a fair few so I'm speaking from experience here. At times the rear end may not even be touching the road during an FWD oversteer, and if it is, probably only with one wheel and that's part of the problem - no/little rear end grip to stop the rear from swinging.

    Given the choice between catching RWD oversteer and FWD oversteer, I'm going with RWD everytime.
    Yes I know I am talking about rally cars and fwd cars which by design have a more playful rear end and your average Mondeo wouldn't be as easy to recover but the same is true for any rwd with little power, in the occasion when it's tail goes it isn't power which has caused it and there is not the power to control it either. So what you get is a tank slapper when the rear finally regains grip which it will and that steering lock which you have turned into the slip with throw you off the road.


    Really we are picking holes here, this is a Car forums about hi-powered motors, the type which us guys are interested in, so playful fwd cars are the ones I at least am talking about.
    Search and you will find the truth.

  16. #16
    Registered User Z07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leadfoot View Post
    Yes I know I am talking about rally cars and fwd cars which by design have a more playful rear end and your average Mondeo wouldn't be as easy to recover but the same is true for any rwd with little power, in the occasion when it's tail goes it isn't power which has caused it and there is not the power to control it either. So what you get is a tank slapper when the rear finally regains grip which it will and that steering lock which you have turned into the slip with throw you off the road.


    Really we are picking holes here, this is a Car forums about hi-powered motors, the type which us guys are interested in, so playful fwd cars are the ones I at least am talking about.
    I'm done with FF cars. Can't stand them.

  17. #17
    Registered User Leadfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z07 View Post
    I'm done with FF cars. Can't stand them.
    I still love them, especially the ones like the GTI and the MINI. But I will always prefer a good powerful rwd or awd car better.

    Just wanting to prove a point.
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  18. #18
    Registered User Z07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leadfoot View Post
    Yes I know I am talking about rally cars and fwd cars which by design have a more playful rear end and your average Mondeo wouldn't be as easy to recover but the same is true for any rwd with little power, in the occasion when it's tail goes it isn't power which has caused it and there is not the power to control it either. So what you get is a tank slapper when the rear finally regains grip which it will and that steering lock which you have turned into the slip with throw you off the road.


    Really we are picking holes here, this is a Car forums about hi-powered motors, the type which us guys are interested in, so playful fwd cars are the ones I at least am talking about.
    There aren't really any truly powerful FF road cars. Why? Traction. I'd like to experiment with some of the more powerful FF cars as I'm not convinced that they'd be any easier to correct. Cars like the 306 GTi6also ended up in a hedge more often than not.

    I guess it depends on the oversteer mechanism. If the FF car is somehow set up for gradual oversteer, which is difficult, then your theory holds true. However, traditional FFs understeer strongly at first and then snap oversteer when the front bites. The latter is much harder to correct.
    Last edited by Z07; September 30th, 2008 at 13:39.

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