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Thread: RS5 in vegas!!

  1. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pretender View Post
    1702 Kg.

    Jarod.
    Jarod, look pls:

    M3 is at 1675 kg with DKG
    RS5 will be at 1702 with S-Tronic

    The difference is not that great considering that RS5 will have Quattro3.

    BTW - what are your predictions about weight distribution between front and rear axle? This is much more important IMHO.

  2. #20
    Registered User The Pretender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artur777 View Post
    Jarod, look pls:

    M3 is at 1675 kg with DKG
    RS5 will be at 1702 with S-Tronic

    The difference is not that great considering that RS5 will have Quattro3.

    BTW - what are your predictions about weight distribution between front and rear axle? This is much more important IMHO.
    It will be more front heavy then the S5 IMHO.

    Jarod.
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  3. #21
    Registered User HKS786's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pretender View Post
    It will be more front heavy then the S5 IMHO.

    Jarod.
    The weight difference is not that much between the M3 and RS5, but it is sad to hear we'll have a nose-heavy RS5. However, with the performance rated at 470bhp/~500Nm I have faith that Audi will make something mean
    HKS786

  4. #22
    Registered User Leadfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pretender View Post
    It will be more front heavy then the S5 IMHO.

    Jarod.
    If we are basing past experience of Audi's approach to their RS models then I would have to agree with Jarod on this, the RS5 will be at least as nose heavy as the S5. But for anyone who has driven the RS4 compared to the S4 you will know that QuattroGmbH has a talent for getting nose heavy cars to perform amazingly well.

    If Audi stick to their current philosophy then a 56/44 weight balance is expected, but if they pull out all the stops I personally think 53~54 front bias is on the cards and with that the handling will be incredible. I know the technology and know-how is there, it's whether the commitment to there that is the question.
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  5. #23
    Registered User The Pretender's Avatar
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    I would not count on that, the new 7-speed S-Tronic gearbox will weigh more then the normal Quattro gearbox and is in the front half of the car.

    Jarod.
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  6. #24
    Registered User Leadfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pretender View Post
    I would not count on that, the new 7-speed S-Tronic will weigh more then the normal Quattro gearbox and is in the front half of the car.

    Jarod.
    Mate, I wasn't in disagreement with you, only highlighting the fact that if they pulled out all the stops and put the technical know-how to work they could shave 30~40kgs from the front with ease.

    Even if they don't it will still handle as well as anything else in it's bracket.
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  7. #25
    Registered User The Pretender's Avatar
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    Put on a aluminium frontend (Bonnet, fenders and doors) and you save some weight.

    Jarod.
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  8. #26
    Registered User Leadfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pretender View Post
    Put on a aluminium frontend (Bonnet, fenders and doors) and you save some weight.

    Jarod.
    And none of this is out of the question, in fact they could go to plastic outer fenders like in the M3. There is a slim possibility that carbon discs will be included again shaving more weight off the front. Though I very much doubt that one happening.
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  9. #27
    Moderator RXBG's Avatar
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    unless this "new" 4.2 rs5 engine is force induced i don't see how in the heck you'll get 368 lb/ft of torque out of it. that is about 50 more than it makes now.
    Last edited by RXBG; August 20th, 2008 at 19:35.
    Past- A4, TT, S4

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  10. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RXBG View Post
    unless this "new" 4.2 rs5 engine is force induced i don't see how in the heck you'll get 368 lb/ft of torque out of it. that is over 60 more than it makes now.
    It will make around 450Nm, Leadie is just little bit overoptimistic in his 500Nm claims... Engine's God name is not Audi...

  11. #29
    Registered User BigRick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leadfoot View Post
    If we are basing past experience of Audi's approach to their RS models then I would have to agree with Jarod on this, the RS5 will be at least as nose heavy as the S5. But for anyone who has driven the RS4 compared to the S4 you will know that QuattroGmbH has a talent for getting nose heavy cars to perform amazingly well.

    If Audi stick to their current philosophy then a 56/44 weight balance is expected, but if they pull out all the stops I personally think 53~54 front bias is on the cards and with that the handling will be incredible. I know the technology and know-how is there, it's whether the commitment to there that is the question.
    I just did some maths with the numbers out there and here are the findings:
    Assuming 1700Kg total
    At a 56/44 split we have 204 Kg (449 lb) more on the front.

    To get 50/50 you would need to (I over simplified a bit)
    Add 204 Kg on the back (easy just have friends sitting in the back seats)
    Move 102 Kg to the back (what can be moved there?)
    Shave 204 Kg from the front (that's like removing the engine!!!)

    The real question is what the hell is so heavy?! It's like two "Me" standing on the hood!!! Has anyone checked what the B8 chasis made to the ratio or are we still using the old numbers?

    I might be clueless but that can't be totaly because of quattro (is it?) I know the engine has to be a bit more in front of the wheels and there's the second diff needed that adds to the weight but 204 Kg!

  12. #30
    Moderator RXBG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KresoF1 View Post
    It will make around 450Nm, Leadie is just little bit overoptimistic in his 500Nm claims... Engine's God name is not Audi...
    sorry. i don't believe it'll be the same old RS4 engine with more hp.

    there is a 4.0TT V8 coming to the A6 and A8 lines to replace the currently aging NA 4.2. i suspect this engine will go into the RS5 in a higher state of tune. the only other possibility would be a slightly higher displacement NA V8, i.e. 4.5 or 4.7 liter, that could be put in there and that would essentially be an RS4 enigne with a higher displacement in order to get more torque. by adding valvelift they could keep a similar fuel economy if not improve it. this latter solution makes the most sense because whatever engine the RS5 gets the R8 will get as a new base engine in about 2 yrs time. we all know the R8 design is problematic for turbo cooling. so i prefer this latter scenario.

    perhaps audi will come up with a cooling solution for the turbo's in the R8. but say it does, a turboed or supercharged RS4 engine would make power similar to the upcoming V10's.

    it is for all of these reasons that i favor a NA 4.5-4.7L version of the current RS4 engine making 470 hp and about 370 lb/ft. it would let the RS5 and new RS4 and updated base R8 slot nicely below the R8 V10 with 535 hp and 400 lb/ft and with respect to one another, allowing their platforms to distinguish their performance- not the engine. at the same time it makes sense economically for audi (look at what it has done for mercedes).
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  13. #31
    Registered User youry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RXBG View Post
    sorry. i don't believe it'll be the same old RS4 engine with more hp.

    there is a 4.0TT V8 coming to the A6 and A8 lines to replace the currently aging NA 4.2. i suspect this engine will go into the RS5 in a higher state of tune. the only other possibility would be a slightly higher displacement NA V8, i.e. 4.5 or 4.7 liter, that could be put in there and that would essentially be an RS4 enigne with a higher displacement in order to get more torque. by adding valvelift they could keep a similar fuel economy if not improve it. this latter solution makes the most sense because whatever engine the RS5 gets the R8 will get as a new base engine in about 2 yrs time. we all know the R8 design is problematic for turbo cooling. so i prefer this latter scenario.

    perhaps audi will come up with a cooling solution for the turbo's in the R8. but say it does, a turboed or supercharged RS4 engine would make power similar to the upcoming V10's.

    it is for all of these reasons that i favor a NA 4.5-4.7L version of the current RS4 engine making 470 hp and about 370 lb/ft. it would let the RS5 and new RS4 and updated base R8 slot nicely below the R8 V10 with 535 hp and 400 lb/ft and with respect to one another, allowing their platforms to distinguish their performance- not the engine. at the same time it makes sense economically for audi (look at what it has done for mercedes).
    I fully agree with you i do not see how you can add another 50 hp to the current 4.2 RS4 V8 engine. so I agree with you its either a TT/ supercharger or a higher displacement....

    time will tell unless somone has real info before that....

  14. #32
    Registered User Leadfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KresoF1 View Post
    It will make around 450Nm, Leadie is just little bit overoptimistic in his 500Nm claims... Engine's God name is not Audi...
    I don't know whether it will end up producing 500Nm, that is what I was told months and months ago. At the time I thought it had to be a V10 but I think since that time the idea of having a heavy V10 ruled that out.
    Search and you will find the truth.

  15. #33
    Registered User The Pretender's Avatar
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    The Audi V8 can't have more displacement, it' limit is 4.2 litre.
    And the Porsche N/A V8 have less power then the old RS4 engine.
    A 4.0TFSI Supercharged engine iks the most likely.

    Jarod.
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  16. #34
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    Just got thinking about this. I'm sure Jarod is right - 4.2 is the limit for this engine - cylinder spacing in the block is tight. Audi would need to re-tool and basically make a brand new engine to get more capacity = very expensive.

    Also piston speed is already at its limit at max revs to there can't be more power to be had by letting the engine rev higher.

    This only leaves an increase in torque to get more power. To get 10% more power you need 10% more torque. Not being an engineer I don't know if this is possible but there was speculation that ValveLift combined with reduced internal engine friction (new materials) could give this extra kick.

    To get more low down torque and better fuel figures a forced induction 4.0 is the better solution but I'm not sure Audi care so much about this for the RS cars. Can't wait to find out. I'll be looking seriously at the next RS4 and I'm sure this RS5 is going to give us a preview or what will be in the B8 RS4.

    Marv

  17. #35
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    armed with this new info it seems most logical that audi would squeeze whatever it could out of its investment in the RS4 engine by adding a turbo or SC to it. 460 hp and 360 lb/ft later you'd have the ideal step up for the new RS4 and the RS5.

    oh. and the R8.
    Past- A4, TT, S4

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  18. #36
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    As pretender stated, what about the new 4.0TFSI Supercharged. That could be a possibility. I for one wouldnt mind a new engine that is either the same weight as the outgoing 4.2L or maybe even lighter.

    In my mind, displacement increase = weight increase (chassis and frame asisde). I have faith in audi though.

    *Don't mind me, Ive been on a "weight savings" stand ever since the RS4. hehe.

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