What is the RS5's main rival?

[Leadfoot]

I have an interesting chat to a good friend ( ) regarding things to do with Quattro GmbH and M-GmbH and their respective futures. The subject turned to the M3 and it's less than favourable reviews and what to expect from the M3 CSL, as expected the talk is less weight and a new gearbox among other things.

Well surprise, surprise he replied that if BMW make a light weight M3 than the RS5 will be made to compete, clearly it looks like Quattro are not content to compete with the current M3, no it has bigger fish to fry.

So does this mean we can expect a light weight RS5 or one with power to burn and a special chassis/drive-train with better weight balance.

[AuditudeA642]

I just wrote up a similar post one below. Great minds think alike .

[AndyBG]

We all forgot about Mercedes, C 63 AMG is here, and it is good ! Car that I expect to be RS 5s main rival is new 2009 Mercedes CLK AMG version, 63 probably. It is going be very powerfull and in ''Black series'' version even better.

[cazorp]

A rumored 450 hp RS5 will be a good match for the M3 I'd say? I mean the RS4 is obviously on par, but that's not much of an achievment from M Gmbh's side, the RS4 will be gone by the time E90 M3 arrives.. bit of a shame, I'd appreciate if Audi could hustle up the new RS-model for the B8 A4..

I dont think RS5 will be able to match a CSL, since weight will be a major issue I'd say - if Audi where to build a "RS5 CSL" I'd say a 90/10-rear biased quattro system would be good..

[Leadfoot]

I dont think RS5 will be able to match a CSL, since weight will be a major issue I'd say - if Audi where to build a "RS5 CSL" I'd say a 90/10-rear biased quattro system would be good..

Well the issue of whether the RS5 will be able to match the M3CSL will depend on what price the CSL will be in relation to the normal M3, if like the last one there is a £20K difference in price then Audi could easily incorporate CF panels, especially the roof and front nose panels to centralise the weight and reduce it by the desired amount, but I am not so sure that the CSL will be as extreme as the last one. It wasn't a sales success and I don't believe the M6 has been either, so I am expecting something more akin to the old M3 but offering a bit more performance than the current model. Both of these things the next RS5 will be able to match without going to the extremes of a CSL type version.

[cazorp]

Youre probably right regarding the extreme of the upcoming CSL, I think the upcoming version will be more mainstream to attract a broader audience, yes. But it would be cool if Audi would implement a lightened "CSL-version" of the RS5, Audi has never been very keen on building light cars, exept from the A8 which is pretty light in its class... Go Audi, make an RSR-5 or something!

[Leadfoot]

I don't think we will see a RS5R or CSL equivalent but I do reckon we will see a light weight track based R8 at some time.

[tazsura]

The M3 will be labled as a rival for the RS5 by the press, but quite frankly i'd expect the RS to blow the M3 away...both in performance but also in it's asking price. Hence, the M3 CSL could be a rival for it when it comes to pricing as i expect the CSL to be ~£7-10K more than the regular M3.

However, i'm wondering just how different the CSL will be to the regular M3? It already has the CF roof and lightweight panels in certain areas so major weight saving would come from chucking out many of the luxuries...so no elec seats, air con, radio, elec wdws....As for the engine..an extra 20 BHP? What are everyone else views on this?

I'd hope that the RS5 wouldn't go to such extremes as i don't think it needs to. Have the NC option of lightweight buckets like the RS4...but no way should they dump things like air con, radio etc. A few CF panels here and there would be nice tho!

As AndyBG said the next gen CLK 63 would be a good comparison, but it all depends on when the respective models get released.

Taz

[AndyBG]

...the next gen CLK 63 would be a good comparison...

I just started to wonder am I the only one to point out to this car...

Present model with it's 480 hps is very strong ''player'', future one will be sirious car, no doubt...

[Leadfoot]

No AndyBG,

You aren't mad or alone in seeing the CLK63 as an alternative to the RS4, M3 but I don't think too many RS4 owners will consider either the M3 or CLK63 to seriously because they don't offer AWD and this is one of the main reasons why so many of us drive performance Audis.

I believe the only people who will really consider the next CLK63 are M3/6 and previous CLK customers.

[AndyBG]

From that point, there isn't many options for past/present performance Audis owners. audi has unique style and aproach of manufacturing performance AWD cars...

What do you think about CLK 63 AMG Black series, is it any closer to actual sport car or is it just black coloured and dangerous name... ?

[tazsura]

From that point, there isn't many options for past/present performance Audis owners. audi has unique style and aproach of manufacturing performance AWD cars...

What do you think about CLK 63 AMG Black series, is it any closer to actual sport car or is it just black coloured and dangerous name... ?

From the reviews i'd say yes it is closer, but still not the real deal possibly, but having not driven cannot be definitive. Certainly looks the part with the cooler for the rear diff etc.

This month EVO have the SLK Black Series tested against a 997 GT3. The SLK gets 3.5 stars. I think the regular SLK55 AMG got 4!

Taz

[Leadfoot]

Oh, I thought we were talking about the normal CLK63 and not the Black Series, well then I can't see how anyone would be consider it if they were considering either the M3 or RS4/5, why well the price for starters, it £100K that's double the others.

And unless the new model is a great improvement from the current SLK55 Black Series I don't see it selling in any numbers at all because AUTOCAR tested it and it came last in the Driver's Car of the Year awards. Below the Merc C350 and the Ford Mondeo.

Not a great results.

[AndyBG]

... The SLK gets 3.5 stars. I think the regular SLK55 AMG got 4!

That gives some clear pic', I think...

Anyway, I'm still expecting that next CLK AMG model is going to be fast car, and that it is going to give a new RS 5 a good ''run for the money'', hopefully, RS 5 will end up as the best car of three ( RS 5, M3, CLK AMG)

[tazsura]

Oh, I thought we were talking about the normal CLK63 and not the Black Series, well then I can't see how anyone would be consider it if they were considering either the M3 or RS4/5, why well the price for starters, it £100K that's double the others.

Oh yeh, i forgot about that!

Taz