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Thread: Auto Zeitung comparison-BMW M3 vs. Audi R8 vs. C06

  1. #37
    Registered User Leadfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude View Post
    This guy probably believed all the Quattro hype.

    http://wwwboards.auto.ru/migalki/257968.html
    It's not hype, I know the benefits of awd system through my rally experience and by rwd experience through trackdays plus other things and in the situation of road use the benefits of having Quattro is not hype it's a fact.

    In fact if you were to ask any of the Autocar/EVO/Autoexpress lads which car they would prefer to drive as their daily transport and the majority will say Audi Quattro. It might not be the most entertaining drive but for efficiency it's have no equals.

    I am not the one looking silly with my quotes and comments on this board, now am I.
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  2. #38
    Registered User tazsura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude View Post
    I don't see what's so special about the RS4 engine. Ok I whole-heartedly commend Audi for growing some danglies and actually meeting BMW head on with a NA engine (witness how they chickened out with the RS6). However it's not a very good engine unless you look at the spec. When I read the brochure, I was like "Wow, off the hizzle fo' shizzle!!!" but in real life it's just not that special except for the fact that it revs like no Audi before it.

    The main problem is that it is very linear and one-dimensional. I see no difference in sound or delivery between 5 and 8250 rpm which means that I often shift too early or bounce of the limiter. The engine just doesn't push you to squeeze out every rev like the E46 M3 or a I4 sport bike. Also, there is not that much throttle response, not even close to something like the Ferrari 4.3 or the BMW 3.2 . Also, the direct injection whine just totally ruins the sound. It is weird, on some days I almost don't hear it and only the engine sound, other days their is so much whine, the engine sounds like a blender, complete crock.

    It's not an engine with a lot of character. Very competent, but it leaves me cold. I heard the old Arese Alfa GTA V6... now THAT is how an engine should sound and feel. I can only imagine if Alfa had the cash to push it to 100hp/liter.

    As for the R8... Audi definetly benefits from lowered expectations and the fact that it's cars are much easier to squeeze performance out of. I think from next year, once Porsche updates their engines... Game over, 911 will be back on top.
    http://www.worldcarfans.com/9070910....ototypes-spied

    Wow, that's HAS to hurt!

    Your beloved BMW...having to twin turbo the M5...what happened dude?!

    Taz
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    B7 Audi RS4 Avant - Phantom Black
    B6 Audi A4 3.0 Sport Quattro Convertible - Volcano Black
    B5 Audi A4 1.9 TDI SE Saloon - Hibiscus Red
    Seat Leon 1.6 SE - Bilberry Red
    Porsche 996 Carrera - Arctic Silver

  3. #39
    Registered User Mori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude View Post
    Dude, drive an RS4 then comment.
    I seem to own one too.
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  4. #40
    Registered User Mori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude View Post
    This guy probably believed all the Quattro hype.

    http://wwwboards.auto.ru/migalki/257968.html
    Pathetic comment.

    Obviously all the F1 drivers that crashed suck and can't drive for shit.
    2007 RS4 Avant | Misano | Black Optics | SS+
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  5. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazsura View Post
    http://www.worldcarfans.com/9070910....ototypes-spied

    Wow, that's HAS to hurt!

    Your beloved BMW...having to twin turbo the M5...what happened dude?!

    Taz
    It's all Audi's fault. Because of their inferiority syndrome, they have to compensate with massive on paper power. Unfortunately most people fall for that. However let's see if it will have turboes after all. I am thinking ///M would rather lose some weight. There has been speculation of a ///M6 CSL and maybe an ///M5 CSL. Loose 200 kilos and it will be as fast as an RS6 as well as way more fun to drive.

  6. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mori View Post
    Pathetic comment.

    Obviously all the F1 drivers that crashed suck and can't drive for shit.
    All I am saying is that you can easily lose control with quattro and it's no panacea for crap driving skills. Modern traction control is basically as good as quattro. It's all in the tires now.

  7. #43
    Registered User tazsura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude View Post
    It's all Audi's fault. Because of their inferiority syndrome, they have to compensate with massive on paper power. Unfortunately most people fall for that. However let's see if it will have turboes after all. I am thinking ///M would rather lose some weight. There has been speculation of a ///M6 CSL and maybe an ///M5 CSL. Loose 200 kilos and it will be as fast as an RS6 as well as way more fun to drive.
    LOL..inferiority? You crease me up. So Audi now with their massive power have surely turned "inferiority" into Superiority, no?

    And why can't the genius's at BMW just wave their wond and produce an extra 80hhp from the NA V10? Must be easy surely?

    I would love to see a CSL M6. I doubt they could do it in the M5 though, as this is supposed to be a luxury saloon as well as being a sporty beast. To drop 200kg without dropping such items as air con etc...would be very hard...and completely alienate a huge chunk of clientel.

    Taz
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    B7 Audi RS4 Avant - Phantom Black
    B6 Audi A4 3.0 Sport Quattro Convertible - Volcano Black
    B5 Audi A4 1.9 TDI SE Saloon - Hibiscus Red
    Seat Leon 1.6 SE - Bilberry Red
    Porsche 996 Carrera - Arctic Silver

  8. #44
    Registered User Mori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude View Post
    All I am saying is that you can easily lose control with quattro and it's no panacea for crap driving skills. Modern traction control is basically as good as quattro. It's all in the tires now.
    BS. Not going to explain since you don't give a shite anyway and just troll like the worst.
    2007 RS4 Avant | Misano | Black Optics | SS+
    2001 S3 | Ebony

  9. #45
    Registered User Leadfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude View Post
    All I am saying is that you can easily lose control with quattro and it's no panacea for crap driving skills. Modern traction control is basically as good as quattro. It's all in the tires now.
    For once you are actually talking sense. But only partly, modern ESP system are amazing at reining in the excesses of power over traction, but the difference between Quattro and their kind need the interaction of these system much less than either fwd or rwd cars, proving that they are more in control of the grip available to the tyres than set-ups that don't have the benefits of awd.

    Not that you will argue with this anyway.
    Search and you will find the truth.

  10. #46
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    Well obviously AWD still has the edge, however it's shrinking fast to the point where the point becomes moot.

  11. #47
    Registered User Leadfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude View Post
    Well obviously AWD still has the edge, however it's shrinking fast to the point where the point becomes moot.
    What's this, you admitting that Quattro is actually better at something. Call the newpapers, we have a front page story for them.

    As for your opinion that ESP is a substitute for the additional grip afforded with Quattro, sadly once again you are wrong, ESP slows the car down to regain grip not reposition power to the wheels with most grip.

    A simply mistake from an uneducated mind.
    Search and you will find the truth.

  12. #48
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    And quattro makes you understeer, which also slows you down.

  13. #49
    Registered User Leadfoot's Avatar
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    If both cars enter a corner to quick then both will understeer and the ESP will intervene but Quattro allows the car to corner through a corner at a high speed without the ESP system getting involved. This is it's additional grip, but you wouldn't know anything about this, only people with Quattro cars would know, like the one who drive RS4s etc.
    Search and you will find the truth.

  14. #50
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    Quattro adds weight, hence undesteer will be more pronounced.

  15. #51
    Registered User Leadfoot's Avatar
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    Quattro isn't the reason for understeer, extra weight over the front axle does this. But again it's lack of knowledge on how to drive a Quattro car that causes most of the problems, you need to drive one like a rwd 911 slow in and power through the corner. Do this and you will always be quick on the track, road etc.

    Rwd gives more options if there's enough power to break traction at the rear but this is only a last resort when dogged understeer has taking over. Ultimately it's much slower to power slide than controlled understeer, best of all 4 wheel drift but then again it takes an awd car for that.

    But I can tell you this the R8 is a miles better driving, handling and balanced car than an M3/5/6 or in fact anything currently in production from BMW. And it seems TopGear agrees with the findings of Autocar, in fact Jeremy is smitten with it.
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  16. #52
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    Jezza loved Alfa Romeo Brera which is mediocre to drive. I dunno, he is an entertainer.

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    There is no way understeer is faster than oversteer. You obviously can't drive RWD. If you giving loads of lock, then yeah. But if you catching a whiff of oversteer & are keeping the throttle & momentum going forward you will gave good exit speed. With understeer you have no option but to lift to get the nose in & then re-apply throttle. With oversteer you can keep the throttle buried & steer with it while getting the nose to the apex & powering out.

    But I agree the R8 is the best handler out there at the moment. The videos I have seen have it oversteering while nicely, especially when Tiff drove it. I hear it can send up to 95% to the rear which is probably why it handles so well.

  18. #54
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    Understeer can actually be pretty hard to counter, especially on a tight road.

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