Auto Zeitung comparison-BMW M3 vs. Audi R8 vs. C06

[Mmm]

Yeah sure racing drivers race in imperfect conditions. I'm talking on the road. With other people. And pedestrians. And uncontrolled enviroment. Who races there with their personal car on the road.

IF the conditions are good, visibilty is great, no danger to others, then yeah it's on. But in imperfect conditions any car including 4WD can be in danger. 4WD cannot save you from lots of hazards that could happen on the road. It's simply not worth it to race unless all is good. I'm sure you know even a 4WD car has much longer stopping distances in the wet. And if you hit a puddle deep enough you will aquaplane in any car. Or if it rains for a few days & oil & water start mixing in the puddles at the long run-offs at the bottom of a hill. 4WD isn't going to help you if you hit a puddle of oil. Or a patch of black ice. You get my drift (excuse the pun)? Or the fact that visibility in not that good in the rain. You may not see someone or someone may not see you coming at 100mph in your quattro in the fast lane. Lots of older cars have steam on the windscreen or poor wipers, & we share the road with these guys.

Why not save it for a dry day to prove who's the man? I wouldn't race in the wet no matter what car I'm driving. There's a time & place for everything. It might be good to brag in a pub to your buddies that your car is the wet weather champion, but normal people settle down for a relaxed cruise home in the wet & fight another day.

And 4WD has no effect on safety in the wet. In an emergency you are on the brakes & hence 4WD has no advantage.

[RussianM3_dude]

So true. The only thing AWD is good for, is putting down power when exiting a corner. That's it. The rest is down to the tires. I am sure you all remmeber that article where the M3 beat an S4 in the wet.

[Leadfoot]

Sorry but it is total BS that awd doesn't benefit the driver when conditions turn for the worse. I know from experience of the benefits and as conditions worsen the advantage multiple ten fold.

The only true thing that Mmm said was awd has no advantage when braking, but as for everything else awd benefits are well documented and are there to be seen at every rally you care to watch.

It just sad that you only argument against it is that you don't race on the road when the weather turns bad, sorry boys but you should never race on the road regardless of the car you are in. But then again this isn't the point we have been making when we say Quattro is the better option for road use and in any case you lot aren't wanting to listen anyway.

[Mmm]

4WD has NO ADVANTAGE when you aren't on the throttle. ZERO. You are not sending power to any wheels. So if you lift when a truck jack-knifes in front of you, then swerve left & right to avoid the obstacle your manouevre is dependant on the tyres, your stability control system, the weight & weight distribution of your car & the front end not understeering, the balance, chassis, ride height, CoG, polar moment of inertia, etc

There are so many factors that influence whether you will avoid the obstacle & whether your drivetrain accepts power to 4 wheels or 2 makes ZERO difference as you ARE OFF THE THROTTLE. In fact I could argue that a front heavier car with more mass will be MORE DANGEROUS in a wet avoidance manouevre than a more agile, better balanced RWD that is less prone to understeer.

But of course if you have the time & space to power out of an emergency then 4WD may well help. But in 99% of emergencies there is no time nor is there the space.

But hey Leadie, if you want to race with the rain pouring down on your windscreen then 4WD rox!

[Leadfoot]

I can tell you this almost all drivers in a situation like an accident react the way they should do, but I didn't think this was what we were talking about, I thought it was whether awd has any advantage when conditions worsen and plainly it does.

Am I wrong when I say if an Quattro car can match it's rwd counterpart on a dry track then it's the better set-up because it's got the added advantage in adverse conditions being to one which is able to master all type of surfaces and conditions.

[Mmm]

I thought it was whether awd has any advantage when conditions worsen and plainly it does.

You should be more specific. AWD doesn indeed have an advantage at APPLYING POWER when conditions worsen.

But if you not applying power, it has no advantage & may, in fact, be a disadvantage.

So if you want to race in the wet, then it most certainly will be better to have AWD.

[Leadfoot]

But if you not applying power, it has no advantage & may, in fact, be a disadvantage.

I've tried free-wheeling when on an economy drive but I don't get farther than the next hill.

Agreed when not applying throttle the awd has no advantage, but on almost every journey you will apply more throttle than brakes but even if it were 50/50 that would mean only half of the time both cars would be equal, the other half the awd car would still have to advantage.

So if you want to race in the wet, then it most certainly will be better to have AWD.

I don't want to race in the rain any more than the next man, but if that is the conditions at the time I won't have to pack up shop and go home because I am at a disadvantage, now will I.

But this is getting far off topic, lets get back to the subject of the M3 vs R8 vs C06 shall we.

[Mmm]

I've tried free-wheeling when on an economy drive but I don't get farther than the next hill.

Agreed when not applying throttle the awd has no advantage, but on almost every journey you will apply more throttle than brakes but even if it were 50/50 that would mean only half of the time both cars would be equal, the other half the awd car would still have to advantage.

Are you saying all RWD car's cannot apply power when the driver is using light throttle openings at lowish revs on his cruise home in the rain? I can assure you most people get home fine in RWD in the wet. You need to go full throttle in the low gears for traction issues. And even they most cars have traction control that simply will cut the throttle anyway. But when its rainng most people will use part throttle in the upper gears to cruise home on the highway & there will be no advantage to AWD.

Like I said the only advantage is if you actually WANT to race in the wet. Then AWD has a distinct advantage.

[Leadfoot]

Sorry, but I thought we were talking about spirited driving not the kind from the film 'Driving Miss Daisy'.

[RussianM3_dude]

I would swap Quattro for BWM brake balance stability system anyday. In a BM you can emergency brake in a corner with no problems. Try that in an RS4... Yeah right, it's already nervous in a straight line.

[tazsura]

I would swap Quattro for BWM brake balance stability system anyday. In a BM you can emergency brake in a corner with no problems. Try that in an RS4... Yeah right, it's already nervous in a straight line.

Having read your other comments about your driving...why am i NOT suprised you have trouble driving in a straight line?!

Taz

[Leadfoot]

I would swap Quattro for BWM brake balance stability system anyday. In a BM you can emergency brake in a corner with no problems. Try that in an RS4... Yeah right, it's already nervous in a straight line.

I have driven most forms of motorsport machinery from karting to rallying to single seater racers and in almost all cases braking has to be done prior to the corner because they are twitchy, it's a sign of something with good front end grip and turn-in. I serious think you need to career change to fairy-tale writer because only children would believe your dribble.

[Mori]

I would swap Quattro for BWM brake balance stability system anyday. In a BM you can emergency brake in a corner with no problems. Try that in an RS4... Yeah right, it's already nervous in a straight line.

Hmm, I happened to have an emergency braking situation in my Audi S3 at 160km/h in a curve - slammed the brakes because a truck swerved in front of me and guess what - that car just shuddered a little and thats it.

Dude - get your facts straight or don't bother because its getting frustrating reading your BS.

[RussianM3_dude]

Dude, drive an RS4 then comment.

[RussianM3_dude]

Sorry, but I thought we were talking about spirited driving not the kind from the film 'Driving Miss Daisy'.

This guy probably believed all the Quattro hype.

http://wwwboards.auto.ru/migalki/257968.html

[tazsura]

Dude, drive an RS4 then comment.

I drive and OWN a RS4. You seem to be the exception to the norm...with your driving "skills".

Taz

[Leadfoot]

Dude, drive an RS4 then comment.

Likewise.

[tazsura]

Likewise.

Taz