Autozeitung comparison : S5 vs. 335i

[Leadfoot]

There is a difference between getting a great start and the other, when I have set times in different cars I never lift the throttle when changing and I will tell you this, that is a lot easier in a rwd car than an awd car.

To achieve these times in a manual is like I say impossible, without LC and SMG to help you along, it isn't do-able.

[3x5PSI]

What isn't do-able? Change gears fast. My 335 is manual, tell me if you can see the 2nd to 3rd ot 3rd to 4th shift on the Vbox graph.

Also bear mind that when you start the gear-change operation, you put the clutch in & do your thing, but the car is still travelling at the speed it was when you dipped the clutch. So it you are doing 160 & start a shift, you still doing 160. You still covering 45 metres per second, you ain't standing still.

Lots of people say, "Oh it takes 0.5 seconds to change gears so you losing half a second." You not. You losing half a second of time you could be accelerating in. Not half a second in elapsed time. And at high speeds the acceleration isn't that much in half a second.

Anyway, I pulled out some logs & worked out the shift times. Easy to do as I have a high speed logger logging MAP, rpm, etc. The MAP sensor sits in the pipe after the intercooler & before the throttle plate. So when the throttle closes there is a boost spike as the boost goes back up the pipe to the dump valves. You will see the boost go up & then immediately start to fall.

When the car is in the next gear & gets load again the boost will start rising again. The boost can only go up when there is load. There is no other way for the boost to start climbing again unless you have engaged the gear. So that's an easy way to tell when the shift it over. Also you can normally see when the rpm starts climbing again that the gear has been engaged, clutch released & the shift is over.

So below is a log of a ripper. Not a power-shift mind you, I did lift, as can be seen by the rpm dropping when the throttle closes. If you powershift the rpm goes up when you engage the clutch.



So 21.25 - 21.094 = 0.156 secs for the complete shift.

That is the best ever shift, but on average I do about 0.20-0.25 secs. That the same as SMG does.

http://www.europeancarweb.com/tech/0...ing/index.html

And pretty much all the guys at the track shift like that.

[Clio16V]

I've got a scan here of Auto Motor und Sport testing the Audi S4/BMW E46 M3/MB C32AMG:

[Leadfoot]

Well if you based the times Sport Auto got from that M3 way back then I reckon the recent test of the M3 doesn't say a lot for BMW's new found F1 technology, because clearly there is little or no improvement.

No doubt Sport Auto will be able to make this new one fly.

[3x5PSI]

You really can't compare times done by different mags in different countries. Do they use a GPS Racelogic V-box or Datron laser timing or stopwatch or what? How can you compare times done with a certain timing equipment to that done on a different one?

[Arslanoff]

Some times I think that some car mags are using "mississippi one, mississippi two..... and so on" technique to mesure performance of cars!!!

[Leadfoot]

You really can't compare times done by different mags in different countries. Do they use a GPS Racelogic V-box or Datron laser timing or stopwatch or what? How can you compare times done with a certain timing equipment to that done on a different one?

Man, you really need to lighten-up.

[3x5PSI]

Hey I'm all good.

[Leadfoot]

To lighten the mood a little, how do you find the 335i compared to the M3 and are you going to get the new model or hopefully see the light and get yourself an Audi.

[Z07]

Before we go any farther with this, I already told people that a S5 would post a time of 11.6s to 100mph and around 18.5s for the 125mph mark and this was all before any magazine has even reported test results or quite possibly conducted the test in the first place, I have also reported before any magazine did, that the speed limit of a RS6 would be 300km/h and again how quick it would be capable of accelerating, so you may already get the feeling I know a lot more than most about what cars are capable of and what they are not.

I know how the tests are conducted in the UK magazines and that is why I believe their results 100%, now when they aren't able to achieve a result of 16.8s knowing full well that some of their testers are the holders for the 0-100-0 world records then chances are the car isn't capable of this time. The best time any UK magazine has posted for a CSL never mind a standard M3 is 10.6s and 12.0s for a standard M3 and you are expecting me to believe that the basic car is only 0.3s slower, please do the maths and check the power to weight of both models and then check this with the RS4 and S5, you will see a similar pattern forming. The S5 is a whole second slower to 100mph and just over 2.5 seconds slower by the 125mph mark and remember both car are on similar rubber unlike the two Beemers where the CSL is on super soft semi-race rubber, much better traction off the line.

If the German mags are getting their cars the achieve these times and the UK supplied cars aren't then just maybe there is a difference between the stock supplied in both countries don't you think.

Good post. Autocar recently ran a 335i 0-100-0 and made 12.49s for the 0-100mph with a 4.33s 0-60mph. Interestingly the 335d made 5.84s for 0-60mph and 0-100mph in 13.77s. Notice that the 335d is faster from 60-100mph!! I generally ignore the 0-60mph time and look at the 60-100 and 100-125mph times. A variety of factors can completely skew 0-60 times.

Given that an RS4 takes 16.6s for 0-125mph and has AWD, the people saying that a RWD M3 can make 0-125mph in 16.8s are actually arguing that a M3 is faster than an RS4 once rolling. This is certainly not the case because RS4s make a much better job of keeping up with my 14 year-old Datsun beater than M3s.

Autocar are about the most mechanically brutal testers on planet Earth. If anyone records a time significantly faster than them, the BS flag flies at full mast. What we must remember is that turbocharged cars are easily tweaked and many unscrupulous manufacturers are well known for tampering with press cars.

[Leadfoot]

Good post. Autocar recently ran a 335i 0-100-0 and made 12.49s for the 0-100mph with a 4.33s 0-60mph. Interestingly the 335d made 5.84s for 0-60mph and 0-100mph in 13.77s. Notice that the 335d is faster from 60-100mph!! I generally ignore the 0-60mph time and look at the 60-100 and 100-125mph times. A variety of factors can completely skew 0-60 times.

Given that an RS4 takes 16.6s for 0-125mph and has AWD, the people saying that a RWD M3 can make 0-125mph in 16.8s are actually arguing that a M3 is faster than an RS4 once rolling.

Autocar are about the most mechanically brutal testers on planet Earth. If anyone records a time significantly faster than them, the BS flag flies at full mast. What we must remember is that turbocharged cars are easily tweaked and many unscrupulous manufacturers are well known for tampering with press cars.

Thank god, sanity finally reins.

[Z07]

Buddy please just concede. I have a British test here where the M3 ran 11.5 to 100mph. Will you accept that? It's from Evo. Will you squirm out if I post it?

Doubt it. Evo are complete gear stick retards. Good magazine though. Autocar made 11.5s with an M3 and 10.9s with a CSL. That's as good as it gets. 10.9 for a standard M3 is dreaming.

[Z07]

11.5 to 160. Is that really that different to 11.2 the Yanks got? Sport AUto have a much better surface & I know when they ran that time is was very cold as the C32 also ran its best time on that day. Is half a second beyond the realms of reality to 160 especially on a traction-impaired surface like Autocar has?

I wonder what Motor Trend got. Their surfaces are real sticky. They probably made 9 seconds flat.

[chewym]

BS on 335i 0-60 time of 4.33 seconds. American magazines at the drag strip haven't gotten those times. Even if you consider rollout. The best is 4.9 or maybe 4.8.

[Z07]

What isn't do-able? Change gears fast. My 335 is manual, tell me if you can see the 2nd to 3rd ot 3rd to 4th shift on the Vbox graph.

Autocar don't even use the clutch. Doesn't get much faster than that.

[3x5PSI]

To lighten the mood a little, how do you find the 335i compared to the M3 and are you going to get the new model or hopefully see the light and get yourself an Audi.

335 is boring. Like driving an Audi. M3 is much more responsive, sounds better, more fun to drive, more rewarding.

[Z07]

BS on 335i 0-60 time of 4.33 seconds. American magazines at the drag strip haven't gotten those times. Even if you consider rollout. The best is 4.9 or maybe 4.8.

Yep, '4.33s' is a misprint on their behalf. Should have spotted that. The bar on their chart is clearly 5.33s long just to confirm that.

[Z07]

Well it doesn't matter but all the hardware on the car is standard on that run. The point is you would think its impossible for a 335 with stock hardware to run 14.5, but it obviously is possible as it's been done. Sometimes the stars line up & you get a perfect run. There have been plenty times at the track I have seen some of my competitors run a great time & if I wasn't there I would never have believed it.

You can't sit there & say 16.8 0-200 is impossible for an M3. It may be highly unlikely, but it's not impossible. (Well seeing as its been done, it's obviously not impossible).

The M3 does 100+ in third yes? So with a 10.9 0-100 and a 16.8 0-125, you're asking me to buy a 5.9s 100-125mph with a gear change from a 343ps M3? Nein.