Slam into tree

[rqiu]

A Long Island teen had gunned his father's BMW to "well over 100 mph" when he lost control and slammed into a tree, killing himself and a friend, police said yesterday.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007...ls_teens_.html

Horrible...

Safe driving everyone.

[Mr Balsen]

Horrible in deed.
But young drivers without special training should not be allowed to drive fast cars under any circumstance, no matter how big is the father's wallet ! ! !

Cheers,
Frederic

[Benman]

So sad...

The saying "youth is wasted on the young" could not be truer words. As young men and women, we just don't understand our own mortality until more time goes by. We all think, "that could never happen to me", but sometimes, it does. When young (and even when older) we think we are invincible, and we are beyond death's reach, but nothing could be further from the truth. The moment caution (and logic) goes out the window, we put our lives in peril.

I feel so bad for the young men's families.

Ben

[RXBG]

Horrible in deed.
But young drivers without special training should not be allowed to drive fast cars under any circumstance, no matter how big is the father's wallet ! ! !

Cheers,
Frederic

je pense la meme chose.

i think the parents should be charged. any parent that allows a teen to drive a fast car like that, or especially buys one for them should be nailed.

very few people that age can handle that responsibility, both physically and emotionally.

back in college in miami i remember the deaths of 5 teens. a vette with two and a mustang with four both lost control racing down a busy miami street at 2 am on a sat. all in the mustang died. only the vette driver survived. his father, a famous lawyer, had bought him a brand new ZR-1. the kid was 16.

[3abdo]

had gunned his father's BMW to "well over 100 mph" when he lost control and slammed into a tree, killing himself and a friend, police said yesterday.

its very sad but kind of predictable, a kid with a fast car...but this kinds of prooves superstar driver's point

[Charles DLF]

I, like you all do, enjoy the thrills of speed every now and then, and i love to feel that big fat V10 up front come to life when i gun it, which makes me think that i am no different than those poor teens.

However i beg all of you to behave in sucha way only on deserted roads, that you know, i see many people speeding on roads they don't appear to know, and when a corner comes to you... Can do much if you're going too fast


All drive safely please,

RIP kids

Charles

[Benman]

However i beg all of you to behave in sucha way only on deserted roads, that you know...

Knowing the road would have probably helped the driver... but still, even with it being deserted, hitting a tree would still have been a possibility.

As for sueing/punishing the parent, I think not. A 16 year old has way more brain power then we want to admit. We were all 16 once and we ALL did dumb crap like speeding /reckless driving at that age when at the very same time, KNEW IT WAS WRONG!!! So had I killed myself, someone should sue/punish my dad just because I spent the last 3/4 days straight begging/pleading with him to let me borrow his new ride? "Come on dad, you KNOW I'll behave!"

Any parent already knows that dad is suffering far more than any legal "settlement" can do... The dad had a laps in judgement and chose to believe his son when he obviously assured him he could be trusted... Why the heck would suing him make any difference. The SON killed himself and his friend, not the father.

Ben

[Audihead]

The "Process of Natural Selection" strikes again.

[RXBG]

The "Process of Natural Selection" strikes again.

i'm going to the galapagos next month so i'll verify that

______________

i think parents do need to be held accountable to some extent. if only for example setting. it is one thing to take out the honda accord for a joyride, a whole other to take out a vette or bimmer or audi. a parent can control certain behavior by removing the catalyst. we do not let 16 year olds smoke, but we do allow them to command mobile bombs.

ironically, a high profile law that fines the owner of a car driven by a minor for every speed offense might do more to prevent drunk driving than legalizing alcohol for those over 16. why? because you introduce more accountability- more people looking out for a common interest. you've got the kid driving the car. AND you've got the guy who owns the car.

furthermore, the fine becomes more concrete on a day to day basis, it hurts where it can be contemplated most easily- in the pocket. sure, a death ultimately hurts more, but i bet you that if that kid's dad (regardless of whether he had given permission to drive the car) knew ahead of time that if his kid got a $200 ticket he'd get one too, and points on his license to boot he would have probably thought about it once more than he did (and may have literally locked up the keys if he didn't want to give permission, just in case).

finally- ask yourself this- why do more people not speed? because they are afraid of dying or because they are afraid of getting a ticket, spending more on car insurance, and having to tell the wife or parents about it? most people are too overconfident about their driving skills.

it's human nature. and it takes a long time (and unfortunately, too many accidents) before some people finally get it. i'll be the first to admit it.

[Mr Balsen]

I have to agree that if I give the key of my fast car to my children, I am aware they can put themselve in a situation they will not know how to handle. Therefore, either I send them to driving classes, or I don't give them the key of the fast car. But you can not be surprised if it is happening.....

Frederic

[Benman]

i think the parents should be charged.



i think parents do need to be held accountable to some extent...

Well, now that is a totally different thing altogether.

In your first quote, you mention "charging" the parents... then you mention held accountable.

To "charge"... i.e. sue, the parents when no such law already exists is just wrong. They already lost the child, they've paid the ultimate price and I would be against any lawsuit of the kind, even if the passenger who died was my child. Not to get biblical, but eye for an eye logic would dictate that if a parent caused the death of my child but giving the keys to his untrained kid, then said parent would need to lose his child as well. And in this case, he did... no a law suit would be absolutely pointless. If solves nothing. It does not bring back my child, and wouldn't ease my pain as the other parent is already paying for his lapsed judgement...

Now, making a law before charging the parent would be different as a law already in effect is just being enforced. However, I'm always against extra "laws" as a Libertarian in the first place. And as a parent, I'm all for having parent raise their kids correctly, mine happen to get regular spankings when deserving, and wouldn't even fathom throwing themselves on mall floors in tantroms...

I will just say this (and please, I am not directing this at you or anyone here), it is "liberal", tree hugging, law toting, sue happy politicians that are ruining things like the Autobahn and Nordschleife for everyone else. In 20 years, there will be no "Ring" opened to the general public because of all the lame Americans and British who keep dieing there as their families somehow feel it is the Ring's fault there loved one passed away. Same for the Autobahn... too many darn tree huggers and PC retards that will soon banish the last true "speed free" freeways in the world. Australia already lost theres.... Germany's will fall soon...

Ben

[RXBG]

no ben. i DO mean charging the parents. naturally you can't do that in this case because there is no law. but i think a law should exist. i am not talking about a law that allows you to sue the parents.... those already exist. you can sue the owner and the driver of a car if they are two different people and you get injured by said car.

the law i propose is one that assesses a FINE to the owner of a car.

[Leadfoot]

We all have done it, drove way too fast and dangerously but we are the lucky ones which got away with it.

The problem the little experience of fear and the invincibility that the young believe they have, they reckon nothing bad will ever happen to them, that why they smoke and drink way too much and their driving is just another extension of this.

But sadly we with experience in life know things don't always turn out rosy. Don't blame the parents, it can't have been a wreck of an old car with bad brakes etc. the only thing they did wrong with love their kids too much in giving them the best of everything.

[Benman]

Don't blame the parents, the only thing they did wrong with love their kids too much in giving them the best of everything.

Agreed. Sorry RXBG, I just don't agree with going after the parents, lawsuit or fine. What if the parent was not very financially wealthy? What if it had just been an old used M3, still plenty fast enough to get killed in? What would be the appropriate fine? 10% of his yearly income? 20% Again, the kid could have killed in any car as nearly any car currently on the road can exceed 100 miles an hour, this one just happend to make it even easier. Next, we should "fine" car manufactures for selling cars to people who have teenage drivers in their households... your "solution" has no end to it, everyone loses...

Leadie is right, the parents only crime was trying to give his kid more than he should have. He has paid the ultimate price of losing his child. Sueing, fining, whatever you call it is just a drain on everyone else! I mean, my tax dollars help pay for the trial, so in the end, I'm paying for the other family to sue another family! And while we're at it, why don't we make the victims parents responsible for letting him go over to the rich "spoiled" kid's house in the first place! I mean, the nerve! They probably knew the spoiled kid was driving that Vette from time to time! ***rolls eyes in disgust***

In the end, it was a tragedy, nothing more, justice has already been served. An eye for an eye.

For an outstanding article on Libertarian Justice, please see: http://www.mises.org/story/2496

Ben

[Qriouz]

Im only 19 years old and i know how hard it is to keep the fot away from the gaspedal, but all i can say is R.I.P to these guys!!!
Nobody deserves to die at that age....

[freerider]

Here's my input. I'm "only" 22 years old and have my drivers licence about 4 years now. When I just got my licence, I really enjoyed driving like a nut. Everybody has the right to drive fast, that's what I thought. I still think like that, but in a different way. I know it's not cool (especially for my age), but nowadays I hardly ever drive too fast. The speed limit is there for a reason. Offcourse you can drive much faster on that road, but only in optimal conditions (no other traffic, no crossroads,...). When something happens you will have a much greater chance of walking away with nothing when driving the speedlimit.
Now, I have to admit, that since I have my own car, I drive faster than when I had to drive my mother's car. Just the respect I have for driving someone else's car. But I don't think my mother needs to be sued or whatever when I killed someone with her car. That's just nuts. You can kill someone with a car without speeding (40 mph can be enough), how are you going to deal with that? Everybody takes risks when driving a car once and a while. Driving is 50% skills and 50% luck (figure of speech). When I have passengers in the car, I keep in mind that I have real people and there lives in my hands. I just wouldn't bare it when something would happen to another person because of me.
And you just can't protect your children all the time. The things you and I did behind our parents back...Just take a look at break.com and look how many of those things go wrong with other people (eg, jumping of a cliff into a lake). It's part of growing up (doing stupid stuff). The scars remind us of those mistakes and make us more responsible.

Johan

[Benman]

Here's my input...

Johan,

Well said my friend.

Ben