Do you think the E92 M3 will match the R8 in performance?

[sticky]

I have driven a 997 GT3 now sticky, and yes the ride has improved but your perspective of comfort must be different to mine. The car is still to hard to be classed as an allrounder, and the thing still dances over the road when the surface is bad, I think the roads in your part of the world are much better than mine because over here no one would class the GT3 as an everyday mode of transport. It an important just not enough.

This is from the review http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...t3/index.html:

The overall mood is confident, suave, refined. The engine sounds like a standard 911's-at least until your right foot crushes the pedal, whereupon the exhaust butterflies open and the sound explodes into THX surround. The firm chassis doesn't beat you up, absorbing road irregularities as if the shocks were working in syrup and never stepping out of line. The variable-ratio steering is simply brilliant, heavy but full of life and always keeping your fingertips apprised of cornering loads. The seats apparently are capable of performing body magnetism, such is the security of their embrace.

The previous GT3 endeavored to combine race-car brio with road-car liveability, but this new GT3 has truly achieved that unlikely marriage. Performance has improved right along with road manners. You could drive the GT3 every day in complete comfort (watch your left calf muscle slowly grow after regular workouts with the Bowflex clutch pedal). The GT3 even delivers remarkably reasonable fuel economy

[OfftheHeZie]

Everyone has their opinion. It doesn't make Motortrend's word gospel. This is all off-topic, but I like the GT3 as well as the last generation GT3. However, since the R8 came out, I feel as if Audi really pulled something great out of their ass in my opinion. Meaning, I feel as if they made a really amazing looking car that actually made it to production without many compromises from it's original concept. I can't wait.

~Mason

[sticky]

Everyone has their opinion. It doesn't make Motortrend's word gospel. This is all off-topic, but I like the GT3 as well as the last generation GT3. However, since the R8 came out, I feel as if Audi really pulled something great out of their ass in my opinion. Meaning, I feel as if they made a really amazing looking car that actually made it to production without many compromises from it's original concept. I can't wait.

~Mason

Of course motortrend isn't gospel but the point was to illustrate the car isn't exactly a track day special and that it is completely realistic to expect to drive it every day and so is a viable R8 competitor.

The R8 really is great, but they didn't pull it out of their ass so to speak they built it out of the parts bin. Which is a good thing, who knows what the cost would have been if they had designed a motor and chasis solely for the R8 instead of modifying what they already had.

[OfftheHeZie]

True, but the aesthetics look wilder and better than a Gallardo in my opinion.

~Mason

[Leadfoot]

This is from the review http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...t3/index.html:

sticky,

I take it you haven't actually drove the 997 GT3 and are quoting from a test because of this. Well I can tell you, it may have improved but to regards this as comfortable to drive daily requires the sort of commitment that most people will not have, that is why Porsche build the Turbo and will build possibly 10 times more of them per year.

[Leadfoot]

To say the car was design and pulled together from a parts bin is a little unfair. That would be like me saying the same about the M3CSL and we both know that would be just as unfair.

[sticky]

sticky,

I take it you haven't actually drove the 997 GT3 and are quoting from a test because of this. Well I can tell you, it may have improved but to regards this as comfortable to drive daily requires the sort of commitment that most people will not have, that is why Porsche build the Turbo and will build possibly 10 times more of them per year.

What I have tried to show you is that actual owners, most of them, seem to have the commitment to drive the car every day. I am sure the same people that would be willing to drive an R8 every day would be the same individuals taht would drive a GT3 every day. The quoting from the magazine was to illustrate that professionals who deal with many more cars hands on than anyone find it acceptable. Their opinion carries more weight than yours. Another thing, you yourself said you didn't know much about the 997 GT3 and your comments were based on the past one. The link was to help you.

The turbo is a different beast, big power, big torque, different powerband, easily modded, what creature comforts does the turbo have that the GT3 doesn't? PASM, PCM, seats, ect. can all be specced. The pilot sport cups supposedly have a softer ride than all year radials.

I have not driven a 997 GT3, haven't had the chance yet. Have driven and ridden in the 996, and from what I have read from magazines and owners the 997 is much more comfortable.

I still find it a little hard to believe you drove a 997 gt3 on short notice? When did this take place? How? Who's was it? And you were able to determine in your professional opinion that most people would not want to drive it daily in this short stint? Did you take it on a test drive to the grocery store? Something doesn't sound right.

[sticky]

To say the car was design and pulled together from a parts bin is a little unfair. That would be like me saying the same about the M3CSL and we both know that would be just as unfair.

Well perhaps that was overgeneralized, there are of course large changes, but it is accurate. The CSL can't be a parts bin car because CSL bits can not be found on any other BMW model.

[Leadfoot]

Well perhaps that was overgeneralized, there are of course large changes, but it is accurate. The CSL can't be a parts bin car because CSL bits can not be found on any other BMW model.

Some the chassis, engine, gearbox and diff didn't come from the M3 then, sorry then I stand corrected.

As for the GT3, it was on Sunday and the car was the dealer's stock that he took home over the weekend on my request. I told you I was very friendly with the dealer and excluding the Carrera GT I can get to drive any Porsche I choice.

[sticky2]

Some the chassis, engine, gearbox and diff didn't come from the M3 then, sorry then I stand corrected.

As for the GT3, it was on Sunday and the car was the dealer's stock that he took home over the weekend on my request. I told you I was very friendly with the dealer and excluding the Carrera GT I can get to drive any Porsche I choice.

I don't think you understood, the M3 CSL obvously has to be based on the M3, it is the CSL version of the M3. BMW did not later decide to take CSL attributes and apply them to a "new" car for Mini.

So they just gave you a 997 GT3 at your beck and call? This is a very rare car, even more so in the UK. Plus if I was buying a new GT3 I would find excess miles suspect. I am not calling you a liar I just believe that is an amazing coincidence on such short notice. What color was it? What about the interior details? You didn't take a picture? No more details at getting a chance to drive one of the best sports cars in the world?

[Leadfoot]

Sticky, I can still call you that.

The car happens to have one which is part of the dealers own, one of a few including a Cayenne Turbo. It not a case that it was at short notice because I had asked to see it more than a couple of weeks ago and this weekend he happen to bring this home instead of his normal Cayenne.

In your statement you are basically calling me a liar, asking for the evidence proves as much.

At this rate we will be seeing a STICKY 3.

[Erik]

sticky, sticky2 etc. you have been banned.

You're not welcome here any longer and you know why. Banned two times in one day is a new record.

I didn't think I would have to IP ban you to make you understand our message.

When, or if, you get your R8. E-mail me a picture and promise me you can behave like a gentleman and I will reconsider. Until then...so long.

[m3fan]

Some of the BMW guys seem to think so:
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showt...=156442&page=2


The RS4 weighs 500 lbs more than the R8 and will be close to the M3 in terms of performance, so the R8 will likely toast the M3....

I'm not saying the M3 is faster but even if it was, I would take the R8 over the M3 hands down. But I don't see how it would be faster in a strait line. R8 more torque , mid-rear engine, and AWD. US spec M's don't get the "REAL" launch control, front engine. Now maybe the future CSL M3 would be faster but not the regular one.

[RXBG]

I'm not saying the M3 is faster but even if it was, I would take the R8 over the M3 hands down. But I don't see how it would be faster in a strait line. R8 more torque , mid-rear engine, and AWD. US spec M's don't get the "REAL" launch control, front engine. Now maybe the future CSL M3 would be faster but not the regular one.

from published data by bmw and audi for the euro models of the cars without driver (75 kg) the R8 is lighter by about 20 kg.

a great deal may have to do with gearing, and power loss by the awd system on the R8, as well as weight distribution, and the mild torque differences between the cars. the R8 will be faster. but i don't think it will obliterate the M3.

where it will come close to obliterating the M3 will be in the handling department, i think, but we will need to see some solid performance data by R & T.

i am looking forward to it, though i think most car mags will drive the M6 alongside the R8, rather than the M3.

[guessWHO]

M3 has no chance against the R8

[Leadfoot]

I reckon that like the RS4, the M3 will indeed perform the acceleration exercise very closely to that of a R8v8, after all their power, torque and weight are all quite close. And I also believe that in handling terms all again will be close in the average person's hands because all of these cars can corner better than most of us will push them.

But in the right hands like a professional he/she will be able to make the R8 work it's magic and pull out a gap on any given road or track. If for a moment we can entertain the notion that the R8 will post a time of 8:00, the M3 8:05 and the RS4 8:09 all on the ring, how far in front will the R8 be over the M3 and RS4. I reckon based on the top speed of the M3 and RS4 being 160mph the it would take the M3 350 meters to cover the 5 seconds of difference and the RS4 will that 640 meters to cover it's 9 seconds of difference at their topspeed. But the difference is based on the lap starting and stopping somewhere on this main straight, if it happened to be after the main straight and where it does on the Playstation's GT4 then the cars would only be travelling at best 60mph and the gap would be only 130 meters and 240 meters respectively.

I hope this shows the real difference in distance that the respective times meant between all to these cars.

[Leadfoot]

Is it just me or has everyone noticed how nice and peaceful things are, now that certain people are no longer posting on the site.

Now we can all get back to the serious job of discussing which paint finish suit that interior colour best.

[QuattroFun]

Indeed more peaceful and all for the better - but besides the paint, we should be able to cope with the proposition that the M3 will probably be in terms of numbers - acceleration or track times - pretty close to the R8.

I have been the first to say that decimals in the numbers do not matter. That said, if it turns out that the M3 is too close to the R8 also on the track (i.e. within 5s on the Ring with same tyres, weather and driver) - the R8 main forte and purpose as it is not an everday car like the RS4 but a two-seater mid-engine car - we should in all honesty start ask ourselves certain questions...