Do you think the E92 M3 will match the R8 in performance?

[sticky]

What do you mean. Isn't the R8 a supercar or something. No compromises in the handling department? I should kill the CSL's 7:50 ring time.

It should kill it as a mid engine, but it won't. It will be interesting to see if BMW goes forward with the rumored Z10 mid engine car based around the M5 v10 and then we can have more of a direct comparison. Comparing a mid engine v8 sports car to a 2001 6 cylinder front engine 4 seater sounds far off but definitely shows just how good of a car BMW built.

[Leadfoot]

Comparing a mid engine v8 sports car to a 2001 6 cylinder front engine 4 seater sounds far off but definitely shows just how good of a car BMW built.

For once sticky I agree with you, but the important word you used in your statement was 'built' as past tense. The CSL was a landmark model for BMW which to this date they haven't beaten or even got close to beating, so like I say, if the R8 beats the CSL then that is very high praise indeed.

Regardless of where the engine is the R8 has moved the game on for Audi and the sports/supercar market. The luxury/smoothness that RXGB rightly talks about is with regards to the smoothness of the ride quality and the luxury being the quality of the components, be it the steering, gearbox, even right down to the stitching on the leather. Every pre-review carried out with the car has commented on a ride quality, the equal of any luxury car and the control the suspension has over bad surfaces. One might think what is the need for such things in a supercar, but Audi have wanted to give the R8 a wider audience than most manufacturers, the 997 has for a very long time had this part of the market for most usable supercar to themselves, what Audi have done it not only given us a much prettier car which combines elegance with supercar looks but makes the Porsche look dated and common and when you compared their abilities in handling and feel the differences in their ride I think we will be amazed as to how Audi have done it.

To compare the R8 to a yet to be launched M6CSL is just silly, the two cars will only be the same in their capability to cover ground because after that the two will go their separate ways, the R8 providing this capability with it's amazing ride quality and the CSL with it's raw experience. Two car achieving the same results but catering for the opposite customers.

And as the wheather the M3 will be the equal of the R8, lets see what it does against the RS4 first and then take it from there.

[sticky]

For once sticky I agree with you, but the important word you used in your statement was 'built' as past tense. The CSL was a landmark model for BMW which to this date they haven't beaten or even got close to beating, so like I say, if the R8 beats the CSL then that is very high praise indeed.

Regardless of where the engine is the R8 has moved the game on for Audi and the sports/supercar market. The luxury/smoothness that RXGB rightly talks about is with regards to the smoothness of the ride quality and the luxury being the quality of the components, be it the steering, gearbox, even right down to the stitching on the leather. Every pre-review carried out with the car has commented on a ride quality, the equal of any luxury car and the control the suspension has over bad surfaces. One might think what is the need for such things in a supercar, but Audi have wanted to give the R8 a wider audience than most manufacturers, the 997 has for a very long time had this part of the market for most usable supercar to themselves, what Audi have done it not only given us a much prettier car which combines elegance with supercar looks but makes the Porsche look dated and common and when you compared their abilities in handling and feel the differences in their ride I think we will be amazed as to how Audi have done it.

To compare the R8 to a yet to be launched M6CSL is just silly, the two cars will only be the same in their capability to cover ground because after that the two will go their separate ways, the R8 providing this capability with it's amazing ride quality and the CSL with it's raw experience. Two car achieving the same results but catering for the opposite customers.

And as the wheather the M3 will be the equal of the R8, lets see what it does against the RS4 first and then take it from there.

How exactly is BMW supposed to beat their M3 when their new M3 hasn't hit the streets yet? You better believe the new M3 is going to be even more impressive than the CSL. And if there is another CSL, watch out.

The looks argument is completely subjective. What about the upsides to porsche having reserved styling? First of all, when a new model is launched the older ones don't look completely outdated. Second of all, the 911 silhouette is an expression of reserved beauty that has been around for 40 years. The 911 will never look dated, as it is a classic. Some people still say the 993 is the best looking 911 ever, and it is hard to fault them. The R8 pays the price for pushing the design edge as the design will quickly wear in comparison. The successor, if there is one, will have to go to extreme lengths to retain this quality. Not to mention how porsche tends to hold its value vs. audi due to their restraint. I find it impossible for someone to find the 997 ugly unless they hate 911's. The r8 definitely is a fresh design.

Audi also has 1 R8 currently. They aren't beating the 911, the 911 can't be beat, they would have had to start 40 years ago. Porsche gives every variation possible, naturally aspirated, turbocharged, lightweight rwd, AWD, whatever you desire. Audi priced themselves too high to truly compete with the base 911. Not to mention sales will never approach 911 levels, so thinking Audi has beat the 911 is not correct, the 911 won before the R8 ever started. The argument could be made that porsche offers more car for less money. I don't think Audi fans should be thinking the R8 is beating the 911, but be thrilled that Audi offers a competitor. If you spend R8 money on a 911 you are in a GT3 or turbo, how will the R8 stack up to those?

[Leadfoot]

I don't think Audi fans should be thinking the R8 is beating the 911, but be thrilled that Audi offers a competitor. If you spend R8 money on a 911 you are in a GT3 or turbo, how will the R8 stack up to those?

The price must be different in the US to the UK. The 997 turbo is all but £20K more expensive and you already know my views on the GT3 so there is no need to go there. I agree that it won't retain the value of a Porsche but then no car does and as for the looks, again it's objective and everyone does have their own tastes, I like Porsches and they have been in the family off and on for quite a few years now, but I personally think it needs to change and in fact drop the rear-engined layout but that is for another post and not this one.

And as for beating Porsche in all it's forms, it only has to be two, the Carrera S and the 4S, all the others are safe as far as I am concerned.

[sticky]

The price must be different in the US to the UK. The 997 turbo is all but £20K more expensive and you already know my views on the GT3 so there is no need to go there. I agree that it won't retain the value of a Porsche but then no car does and as for the looks, again it's objective and everyone does have their own tastes, I like Porsches and they have been in the family off and on for quite a few years now, but I personally think it needs to change and in fact drop the rear-engined layout but that is for another post and not this one.

And as for beating Porsche in all it's forms, it only has to be two, the Carrera S and the 4S, all the others are safe as far as I am concerned.

We went over the pricing. 108k for a 6 speed R8, 106k for a 997 GT3, base to base. R-tronic 118k vs. turbo 122k, in the US. So maybe they priced themselves too high in the US? Just because Audi prices themselves like a 911 turbo does not mean they are on that level. There were so many threads where people said I was crazy saying the R8 would come at 130k, and looks like it will for an r-tronic with some options, and much more if someone wants ceramic brakes. I said the R8 is not almost 50k better than a carrera S.

If I am looking for a sports car, I don't see how the R8 would be better than the GT3, from a fun to drive perspective, especially for more money. It will take a v10 R8 for a lot more money (why not just get a gallardo) to try to match the GT3. The R8 will not appeal based on performance for the dollar but for exlusivity and design. I still think 130k for an Audi doesn't sound right.