the porsche is faster.
WHO THE F cares?
and wait till they see how much cheaper the R8 is. can you EU peeps please compare the prices of these cars in your neck of the woods? here in the US, from what i know, the R8 as tested will run 10K less than the turbo.
Past- A4, TT, S4
Present- R8 V10
Yes yes. Just wait until the R8 gets the engine it deserves. Then we're talking!
Love this:
"When you get right down to the numbers, the Porsche's 0.92g skid-pad performance and 68.3-mph slalom speed were trumped by the Audi's 0.96g and 69.2 mph."
I would be surprised to see the R8 at 997turbo prices but who knows. Anyway back to the test, no one would have expected the R8 to work with the turbo is acceleration, but as for handling that will be a different story look at the skid-pad performance, the R8 out grip the king of grip which is no a tall order. It will be interesting to see them on a tight twisty track together, I think the Audi will not disgrace itself.
With the v10 in place there is no doubt it will be a player, the only problem is that the goal posts and presently being moved by Ferrari and Lamborghini so when the R8v10 does finally make an appearence I reckon it will be where the R8v8 is currently in the market place, just below the front runners in the performance stakes.
Search and you will find the truth.
first i think the audi r8 is more comparable to a 911 4s. Later, when the r8 will got a 5.2 liter v10 i think this will be more comparable to 911 turbo if audi plan to put a v10.
audi own
I care.Originally Posted by RXBG
Wait till they see how much cheaper the R8 is and then you mention 10k? 10k won't scare anyone at this price point, 125 or 135 isn't a deal breaker. 10k is ceramic brakes.
Bottomline it isn't fair to compare the R8 to the 911 turbo but I said this would happen if it was priced too high, and looks like it will be in comparison to the C4S.
For the same money it is difficult to argue against a 911 turbo.
If Audi are pricing the R8 this high they are playing a dangerous game with not only their money but the future customer's money too, especially with unsure resale values.
Search and you will find the truth.
you know sticky, it has become very hard to not predict what will be within your posts. behind each one of them is a simmering antipathy and antagonism. reminds me of an ex-member, nordschleife. this smiliealways reminds me of your frustration.
the vast majority of individuals do care about 10K. yes. even professional basketball players and other such normally assumed-to-be perversely money spending types.
i will eat my words if the R8 bases at more than 100K. and for two reasons. one- in USA base trim it will come with all USA-available perfomance options standard. two- when similarly equipped the 997 TT comes in at MORE than 10K. and that is assuming the R8 will start at 100K, when in reality it will likely be more like 95K.
but. i am sure there will be some other unfortunate angle you'll find to criticize the car. either the power figure, its inability to keep up with an M6 at very top speeds, etc.... regardless..... a motivated critic always has a cause.
but going back to your Sartre, "No Exit" style posts i will always wonder if you are really going to get one of these cars. if you are so pragmatic about the price and performance equation i would expect that you would have taken delivery of a 997 TT, or better yet, a Z06 by now.
in the end it seems that the 10K difference i mentioned (very generously underestimated by yours truly, BTW) does scare someone. you. if it doesn't bother you then why do you keep harping on it? or this or that? one would think you'd have made your peace with the R8 by now and have chosen to get one or not.
and you'd better soon because regardless of what number you hold in line, your dealer will soon be calling you, if he has been approved, (trust me on the call issue) and you'd better be ready to piss or get off the pot at that time.
any vacillation and i am sure he'll have no trouble skipping you for the guy who is next in line. i hope you have a spot in line over at the porsche dealer, just in case.
Past- A4, TT, S4
Present- R8 V10
Fully optioned R8 is likely around 120,000. Fully optioned Turbo is about 139,000 (minus carbon brakes) give or take. Hate when someone says that a fully optioned brand X vehicle you can get a bare bones brand Y vehicle.
I think you misunderstood the point I was making. You contradicted yourself, you said wait until they see how much cheaper the R8 is than the 911 turbo and then you mention 10k.you know sticky, it has become very hard to not predict what will be within your posts. behind each one of them is a simmering antipathy and antagonism. reminds me of an ex-member, nordschleife. this smilie
the vast majority of individuals do care about 10K. yes. even professional basketball players and other such normally assumed-to-be perversely money spending types.
i will eat my words if the R8 bases at more than 100K. and for two reasons. one- in USA base trim it will come with all USA-available perfomance options standard. two- when similarly equipped the 997 TT comes in at MORE than 10K. and that is assuming the R8 will start at 100K, when in reality it will likely be more like 95K.
but. i am sure there will be some other unfortunate angle you'll find to criticize the car. either the power figure, its inability to keep up with an M6 at very top speeds, etc.... regardless..... a motivated critic always has a cause.
but going back to your Sartre, "No Exit" style posts i will always wonder if you are really going to get one of these cars. if you are so pragmatic about the price and performance equation i would expect that you would have taken delivery of a 997 TT, or better yet, a Z06 by now.
in the end it seems that the 10K difference i mentioned (very generously underestimated by yours truly, BTW) does scare someone. you. if it doesn't bother you then why do you keep harping on it? or this or that? one would think you'd have made your peace with the R8 by now and have chosen to get one or not.
and you'd better soon because regardless of what number you hold in line, your dealer will soon be calling you, if he has been approved, (trust me on the call issue) and you'd better be ready to piss or get off the pot at that time.
any vacillation and i am sure he'll have no trouble skipping you for the guy who is next in line. i hope you have a spot in line over at the porsche dealer, just in case.
The point I was making was that 10k is nothing in this segment, it is a set of brakes. I'm not sure if English is your first language or not with your posts so it is no big deal just a misunderstanding on your part.
I'm not sure what offense you take with the post I made, except that you get upset when I usually correct your erroneus statements. I understand you have a great enthusiasm for the car, as do I, but I think you take things a bit too personally. It is really difficult to truly interpret a tone through a post but you already seem to have a set mindset on my posts as attacking you or putting you down.
You have made statements about the car in the past that have been very far off, I have only provided my point of view in comparison.
I don't think 10k scares me considering I put money down to get on a list for a car which I did not know what the price would be except that it would be above 100k. What scares me is that the R8 will get compared to the 911 turbo because they priced themselves above what would be considered competitive with a C4S.
I never criticized it for not keeping up with an M6. You said it would, and I continually had to inform you that a gallardo has trouble with this so the R8 won't keep up. You make a lot of generalizations about the car that don't have basis in fact, such as when you said the weight would about 200 pounds lighter than what it turned out to be. I understand your enthusiasm but don't get upset when people give it a reality check. Reality is if this car is 130k I'll have to drive a 911 turbo as well before making a decision, it would be stupid if I didn't at the same pricepoint.
I am not too scared of my dealer calling soon, they are quite familiar with me over there, as I have purchased cars in the past, and they were not S4's or 1.8t A4's where 10k here or there does matter.
What pricing are you using for the R8? There is no pricing out yet so maybe we should see what the difference is when we get actual US dealer base and option prices? Either way, what options are on a 911 turbo with a 139k sticker? Sport chrono, manual, PCM, and an aluminum or carbon interior package still puts you at just under 130k. You can option out to the moon really, but check some dealer inventories to get an idea on how Porsche configures cars that were not individually ordered. Porsche custom tailoring gets expensive very quickly. There have been some C4S cars for 140k, who bought them, I have no idea.
Like you said there is no price on the American R8 yet. But in Germany the manual R8 is 104,400 euros. (111,790 for R-Tronic) In Germany the 911 4s is 97,717. The GT3 is 110,878 and the Turbo is 137,058 euros. In US the 911 4s is 88,400, GT3 is 106,000 and the Turbo is 122,900.
Use this information as you wish.
I forget exactly how the Germans do it but do you know if they include tax in the price? I heard they include a 17% VAT or something like that, not 100% sure.
It is 19%. The German prices are only good for some general comparison. The final R8 price will depend on how much of the Euro/dollar exchange rate is sucked up.
I will defend both of you RXBG and sticky.
What sticky is saying makes a lot of sense, who here when buying a car doesn't spend an extra 10~15% on extras. Most of the R8s in my local dealership are spending an extra £20K in options which places the car right on the door step of the 997turbo. The problem is the options Audi are offering their customers aren't the same, carbon panels behind the door - no real benefit, carbon engine bay with LED - again what for, both of these options add the best part of £6K+ to the basic price, add in the R-Tronic and that's another £6K with no real benefit to the performance or comfort of the car.
When one does away with these none necessaries you end up with a car the is now £15K less than a 997turbo and when one specs a 997-4S to the same as the R8 the price difference is only £2K+. So there is a big price difference if one keeps a level head and well away from the options list.
RXBG said who F cares, correct the only people who care the 997turbo is quicker is the one's who have forked out the extra £15K for the privilege of owning the Porsche. These is back to the old argument and problem I see with BMW M owners which I believe sticky falls into, performance is king and everything else doesn't matter like drivability, comfort, quality as long as I am the fastest.
Top Gear proved that you don't need to have the quickest car to be the fastest. Remember the Isle of Man, 997S vs M6 vs Aston Martin, the Porsche beat the others by over 6 seconds in a less than two minute run. I reckon the R8 will be very close to the 997turbo in a tight and twisty road which isn't bad for a car that is ultimately in a different price bracket.
Search and you will find the truth.
Good points but the 911's aren't a corvette, driveability, comfort, and reliability are all porsche strong points. It could be argued of course that porsche has a long standing track record with the 911 vs. the newcomer r8 which has to prove itself. Either way, I don't think parts are going to fall off either and both are as comfortable and useable as a sports car with the engine behind the driver is going to get.
If engine power was all that mattered I would have a z06, supra, or viper and call it a day.
RXBG - You don't have to PM me and threaten to ban me. At least have the maturity to take some criticism. Oh, and you would have to ask one of your admins or super moderators to do it. I won't go and PM them or make a huge thread and fuss to have you removed as a Mod for threats or abuse though, I know you are here to talk about cars and can see beyond one cheap threat PM.
Thanks for deleting my post in this thread as well instead of responding to it, I suppose we are to expect you to do the same with this one and others that don't agree with you? How exactly is one to go about responding to you if they don't agree with you if you just delete what they say because you feel like it?
Last edited by sticky; March 13th, 2007 at 22:38.
consider this your second warning.
Past- A4, TT, S4
Present- R8 V10
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