Audi R8 "7:55 around Nürburgring"

[Erik]

Audi engineers say they wanted the limits of the R8's chassis to be more approachable than those normally associated with a mid-engined supercar, or the tail heavy Porsche 911. "It starts to rotate [from understeer to oversteer] earlier than a 911," admitted one, "but it's much more controllable." It certainly feels very confidence inspiring, and there's little evidence to suggest the R8's ultimate dynamic ability has been compromised much -

Audi sources claim that with a lap time of 7min 55sec, the R8 is only 11 seconds slower around the legendary 14 mile Nurburgring Nordschliefe than the Lamborghini Gallardo, which of course has 100hp more.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...1_2008_audi_r8




Audi claims a top speed of 185 mph, which means the R8 is faster in a straight line than a 911 Carrera S. Yet it’s not as sporty as the Porsche and is likely to cost a lot more money in the U.S.—we estimate about $110,000. That’s still way cheaper than a Gallardo or Ferrari F430, its closest mid-engined rivals, and will make the R8 an alternative for prospective 911 Turbo and Aston V-8 Vantage buyers when it goes on sale in the fall of 2007 in the U.S.

http://www.caranddriver.com/previews...8-audi-r8.html


http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carrevi...8/audi_r8.html

[quattro Gmbh]

http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...ID=0&tID=10073

7:55 is very good compared with

7:55 --- 156.126 km/h – Ferrari F430 F1, 490 PS/1493 kg (sport auto 01/06)
7:52 --- 157.119 km/h -- Lamborghini Gallardo E-gear, 493 PS/1496 kg (sport auto 12/03)

[7:53 RS6]

Nice car, as well reported to be fast. Every time i see these new sportscars on the market i kind of get reminded of how great the CSL are(still even old)


Sorry

[Leadfoot]

7:53 RS6,

I must agree that in light of what was achieved by the CSL, all of the above look to have not moved the game on at all, but this really isn't the case. The R8 runs on normal road tyres as does the Gallardo where as the CSL runs on semi-slicks which just about pass as legal.

This is in no way taking anything way from the achievement of the Beemer, it's not only amazing when you consider how long ago it did it's time but also it's limited power and the fact that it's a plain vanilla sports coupe based on it's saloon brother.

For me Audi's R8 is amazing compared with it's piers, both the Ferrari and the Lambo have a lot better power to weight ratio and with the Ferrari comes the heritage and the belief that it should be the better car. Audi has combined the looks of the others with the drivability of the normal car, I know there has be few reviews but based on what has be written as far it will be no more scary to drive than any other Audi and with that the confidence that we all love.

What a motor.

[7:53 RS6]

7:53 RS6,

I must agree that in light of what was achieved by the CSL, all of the above look to have not moved the game on at all, but this really isn't the case. The R8 runs on normal road tyres as does the Gallardo where as the CSL runs on semi-slicks which just about pass as legal.

This is in no way taking anything way from the achievement of the Beemer, it's not only amazing when you consider how long ago it did it's time but also it's limited power and the fact that it's a plain vanilla sports coupe based on it's saloon brother.

For me Audi's R8 is amazing compared with it's piers, both the Ferrari and the Lambo have a lot better power to weight ratio and with the Ferrari comes the heritage and the belief that it should be the better car. Audi has combined the looks of the others with the drivability of the normal car, I know there has be few reviews but based on what has be written as far it will be no more scary to drive than any other Audi and with that the confidence that we all love.

What a motor.

Well said!
CSL is on topp on sport autos 25 best preforming list on the ring, regarding pulling G. Its on 7 place regarding ring time. CSL is on the same list way back at 22place or somthing regarding the same list toppspead and Cw. Power is not it all time, its the package that counts, anyway on track that is. CSL is faster than Maclaran SLR around the ring.

The vanilla ica sugar babe CSL pull the same high G as Pagani Zonda= 1,4 G.
Sure it got stickier tiers than Zonda, but then again Zonda got wider tiers as well wider body. Depending on a lot of things, due to that we can never be sure whats the gain whit r-compund vs nowdays new developed street tiers? But sure r-compund is r-compund, even old if you know what i mean, its better than street ditto!
M5 lap in 8.12 whit street tiers. The slightly lighter, slightly more focused M6 lap in 8.09 whit corsa r-compound! What do that tell us relly? Restricted or not, we can only speculate.

We all know that when the Michelins cup r-compund tiers came new developed on CSL late 2003, well it was the shit tier of all But as carmanufactors improve over years, even tier manufactors do. There are very god street compund on the market today, the years fly by as we wright here, dont they.

The mk2 Porsche GT3 RS, wich by many is a tru sports car pull 1.4 G on r-compound as well, its lighter than the CSL as well RS is on 295 wide r-compond. And the CSL is in many eyes not a tru sportscar, its on 265 wide tiers pulling 1,4 G as well? Its based on a massproduced car. BMW M did send the right signals whit CSL...we know how to do, dont we.

The all new 997 GT3 RS whit new developed 2007 michelin cup r- compund 305 wide laps whit Horst at the steering wheel at 7.45min! Thats the all new developed 414+hp GT3 RS! The new normal 997 GT3 Horst lap in 7.48.

The very old CSL from 2003 whit 265 wide r-compund in rear, as well related to the very much vanilla 3 seris that is world wide on sale, well it laps whit 360hp at 7.50.

Now this is a car that some will remember as special, it might be a historical referes.

Audi is on to somthing these days, there are a new kind of Audi spirit in the cars these days, that i like. R8 is very cool indead.

[Leadfoot]

The M5 and the M6 are a different animal to the CSL when you talk about the tyres. The CSL was solely designed and set-up for R-compound tyres, the M6 wasn't, the 6 seconds reduction in time is solely the improve on grip alone. The M6's time would improve a lot more if the car had solely been set-up for the tyres like the CSL was. Also there has been bigger improvements on tyre technology so possibly their isn't the improvements in R-compound over normal tyres.

The R8 is very much a usable supercar in the same mould as the 911, when you see it's a whole 8 seconds quicker than the 997 Carerra 4S with ceramic brakes this is a lot considering the experience Porsche has around the ring.

On the CSL, has anyone equalled that time of 7:50 on a standard CSL. Not the start an argument, there has been a lot said in some circles that this time was achieved by a non-standard car. What is your feeling on this and how close has you got to this time.

[7:53 RS6]

What i meant about the tiers on M5 vs M6, was just to point out that the diffrens might not be more than a few seconds even if R8 would go around on R-compound vs R8 go around on normal tiers.

Well im not sure i know what you mean when you say the CSL was set up for R-comp, was not M6?. As i know M6 come stock whit R-comp aswell, i guess its the same then. But hey.. lets not forget its more than tiers that set these cars apart, the to cars fore sure are diffrent in many ways, thats why the time around also is diffrent.

Regarding CSLs time around it always gets down to this, is it for real. Well im sure the CSL time is as real aswell the car was as stock as all other cars tested in Sport Autos supertest! This only proves in my mind anyway, not to many know what potential a stock CSL got. The whole point whit Horst superstest is to see what plain stock cars can manage. Not to strange Horst got big problems to even get some cars to be tested. I spoke to him a while a go, and he is very keen on testing some Ferraris, but he never get one? Why he ask him selv, as well its gets me thinking.

Back to CSL. All i know im about 30 seconds slower than Horst in my stock CSL. Im a strawberry if comperd to Horst regarding driving the ring. But im pretty confident as im going to meat Horst at Sport autos event this summer at the ring that i will go faster after this. Well im sure after driving whit him there for 2 day, i will be faster for sure.
Only to let him drive in front of me for some laps are going to make me gain speed around, let alone have him in my car.
As im a strawberry driver and im 30 second slower, i feel no nead to question that Horst and Sport auto drove a stock CSL at 7.50.
There are 73 bends thru the ring where i can improve. I will easy find 15 seconds of speed just on my own down there, if only i had the time and money. Horst more or less eat, drink and shit the ring , i mean he knows his way around, i dont. He is a faster driver, nothing else. He dident drive a magical super CSL that the M peopel at Garching bei München had specally fixed for this test, thats like this fun The CSL horst drove is the same like every other CSL.

[Leadfoot]

I wasn't picking at the time of the CSL, just asking your view on the rumour that it was tricked up for the test. The reason I brought up the point about the M6 was different than the CSL's set-up was more a case of the CSL was solely set-up to run these tyres, yes you could of bought one without them but the performance drop was major as one UK magazine proved in a test for comparation. Though the M6 is sold with them it's set-up is more forgiving with them on and the move to oversteer easier to catch in comparation to that of the CSL. That's why I say the set-up is different, one is a GT car and the other in a race car that can also be used on the road just like the GT3RS.

I class the M6 as a 997Turbo and the CSL as a GT3RS that is why I think with the right set-up the R8 would go a lot quick with R-compound tyres than the different between the M6 and the M5.

[Speedou]

Huoh, why I always see the CSL in these kind of topics. I'm bored to it Personally I love the CSL and I know how amazing it is. But please let it be, totally different car than R8.

7.53, we all know that you have it and you love it, but please not in every single topic where it comes to ring time

[Leadfoot]

Huoh, why I always see the CSL in these kind of topics. I'm bored to it Personally I love the CSL and I know how amazing it is. But please let it be, totally different car than R8.

7.53, we all know that you have it and you love it, but please not in every single topic where it comes to ring time

Sorry, I too got carried away there.

Back to the R8, for it to match the F430 is an amazing feat especially first time out of the box so to speak for a supercar, it might be based on the Gallardo but it's a totally different animal, bigger, easier to drive and not as extreme but only 3 seconds slower and with more weight and less power. And when you compare the power to weight of the R8 against the F430 the difference is major. :bigeyes:

No doubt the motoring press will place it behind the rest of the competition with regards to fun and feel and all the thing they have always had against Audi, but there is no denying it's speed especially around a given track. Luckily Audi driver are too intelligent to listen to such dribble, I only hope the rest of the buying public are just as intelligent.

[7:53 RS6]

Huoh, why I always see the CSL in these kind of topics. I'm bored to it Personally I love the CSL and I know how amazing it is. But please let it be, totally different car than R8.

7.53, we all know that you have it and you love it, but please not in every single topic where it comes to ring time

Well im hardly in here any longer so be happy. I guess you will hardly die due to getting bored anyway.

What ever the subject might be, well ok, but when it comes to new launches of sportscars and them preforming on the ring, well you better get used to it that them will get looked at vs other cars.

[Leadfoot]

Now, now children no fighting. We are all big boys here.

[7:53 RS6]

I wasn't picking at the time of the CSL, just asking your view on the rumour that it was tricked up for the test. The reason I brought up the point about the M6 was different than the CSL's set-up was more a case of the CSL was solely set-up to run these tyres, yes you could of bought one without them but the performance drop was major as one UK magazine proved in a test for comparation. Though the M6 is sold with them it's set-up is more forgiving with them on and the move to oversteer easier to catch in comparation to that of the CSL. That's why I say the set-up is different, one is a GT car and the other in a race car that can also be used on the road just like the GT3RS.

I class the M6 as a 997Turbo and the CSL as a GT3RS that is why I think with the right set-up the R8 would go a lot quick with R-compound tyres than the different between the M6 and the M5.

Ledfoot i know you dident pick on the time but as you say its rumors, and there was my saying about it. Hope it dident came out wrong. The preformance drop, well what UK mag said that. I guess the preformance drop will always go down if on less gripy compound, its hardly a case for just CSL, even GT3 RS as well new RS4.

Anyway i would be glad to hear what this UK mag came at, how much did it differ then.

Horst drove Aston Martin Vantage V8 at the ring on 2 diffrent tiers .
Now this is not any refrence to all cars, we nead to have that in mind. But the gain on r-compound in this specific case whit this specific car and driver, well he was 10 seconds faster on R-compound(8.03 min) vs street tiers. It was Pirellis Corsa R-c vs Bridgestone street tiers. Very impressive time for a 1636kg car whit 385hp

The CSL is very drivebel even whit street tiers, even more so whit the right newly developed street tiers there is, among other reasons its due to the weight is not a critcal issue on CSL even its not flyweight. But sure CSL come to life for real whit the stickyer compound

CSL and M6 as well all M cars are all easy catch on drift. The diffrence is only CSL pull higher G than rest so when it come lose in rear its in greater speeds . Sure some cars are more suited for R-c, i think its more due to some cars genral constuktion(weight, etc) rather than some settings. That dont mean one dont nead to sett up racecars right, if you know what i mean.

To be frank the CSL is not set up stock even to what standards Michelin recomend for using the CUP tier on track even. CSL is not sett agressive from factory as well one cant sett it very much. Even new RS4 got more agressive stock camber settings than CSL, if im not lost in memory.
The CSL came as stock in numbers on normal street tiers as well, that could hardly been done if the setup was to track focused, it was not! You cant adjust camber in rear on CSL, in front you can a bit only. And thats one of the biggest issu whit CSL, that one cant adjust camber to levels that one nead. Sure on the ring its no issu driving stock cambers. But drive CSL stock cambers on a small track and you use up the front tiers in no time. God for BMW if one buy tiers at that place bad for my dollars.

The gain whit R-compound is not that high on say one stock R8 or gallardo or 997 turbo due to they all redy have plenty of grip(awd, etc). New 997 turbo is very fast on street tiers, its down on a 7.45 min lap! Whit R-compound only a few seconds faster.

[Leadfoot]

Ledfoot i know you dident pick on the time but as you say its rumors, and there was my saying about it. Hope it dident came out wrong. The preformance drop, well what UK mag said that. I guess the preformance drop will always go down if on less gripy compound, its hardly a case for just CSL, even GT3 RS as well new RS4.

Anyway i would be glad to hear what this UK mag came at, how much did it differ then.

The difference was 6 seconds around the Bedford track which is less than 2 minutes, quite a bit if you ask me. They put the CSL tyres on a standard M3 but it only gain the half of this, proving that the set-up of the CSL suits the R-compound better than the standard car.

Horst drove Aston Martin Vantage V8 at the ring on 2 diffrent tiers .
Now this is not any refrence to all cars, we nead to have that in mind. But the gain on r-compound in this specific case whit this specific car and driver, well he was 10 seconds faster on R-compound(8.03 min) vs street tiers. It was Pirellis Corsa R-c vs Bridgestone street tiers. Very impressive time for a 1636kg car whit 385hp

The CSL is very drivebel even whit street tiers, even more so whit the right newly developed street tiers there is, among other reasons its due to the weight is not a critcal issue on CSL even its not flyweight. But sure CSL come to life for real whit the stickyer compound

CSL and M6 as well all M cars are all easy catch on drift. The diffrence is only CSL pull higher G than rest so when it come lose in rear its in greater speeds . Sure some cars are more suited for R-c, i think its more due to some cars genral constuktion(weight, etc) rather than some settings. That dont mean one dont nead to sett up racecars right, if you know what i mean.

CSL is not sett agressive from factory as well one cant sett it very much. Even new RS4 got more agressive stock camber settings than CSL, if im not lost in memory.

The reason the CSL pulls more Gs is solely down to set-up, I think you are misunderstand what I mean by this, set-up not only includes suspension but also aerodynamics, the CSL produces a lot less lift than the M6, Aston or RS4 and quite possibly produces downforce the key to unlocking the magic grip that is to be found in R-compound rubber. The reason why the RS4 has a more aggressive camber than the CSL is because it needs it, the nose is a lot heavier and this helps control it's natural tendency to understeer, similar things have been done to the TT.

The gain whit R-compound is not that high on say one stock R8 or gallardo or 997 turbo due to they all redy have plenty of grip(awd, etc). New 997 turbo is very fast on street tiers, its down on a 7.45 min lap! Whit R-compound only a few seconds faster.

Again this will all be down to how much downforce each of this cars produce, stock tyres produce high levels of mechanical grip similar but not quite as high as R-compound tyres and the gap between the two types increase greatly with downforce where heat becomes an issue, race tyres love it, road tyres hate it. I don't doubt that all of the above cars would improve possibly 5~8 seconds unless their set-up was changed to use the full advantage available from the tyres, then up to 12~15 seconds could possibly be up for grabs.

I'm not an expert but I do understand the mechanics of the thing.

[Audiphile]

Don't forget that Audi has to leave room for the V10 for the R8. It should be faster and more potent and will beat the time of 7.55.

[7:53 RS6]

The difference was 6 seconds around the Bedford track which is less than 2 minutes, quite a bit if you ask me. They put the CSL tyres on a standard M3 but it only gain the half of this, proving that the set-up of the CSL suits the R-compound better than the standard car.
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@ledi
I dont know what you mean when you say set up for CSL. I mean CSL is made as it is and M3 is made as it is. Yes there are reasons why CSL is faster than M3 even on the same tiers. This has nothing to do whit set up. Its becuse a lot of things that M peopel did when they made it. Its not due some set up.
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The reason the CSL pulls more Gs is solely down to set-up, I think you are misunderstand what I mean by this, set-up not only includes suspension but also aerodynamics, the CSL produces a lot less lift than the M6, Aston or RS4 and quite possibly produces downforce the key to unlocking the magic grip that is to be found in R-compound rubber. The reason why the RS4 has a more aggressive camber than the CSL is because it needs it, the nose is a lot heavier and this helps control it's natural tendency to understeer, similar things have been done to the TT.
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@ ledi
Again they are to diffrent cars, they are build whit to diffrent things in mind they are built diffrent. Not set up diffrent.
I not sure about any lifts, but i know CSL and M6, and M5 all are down on 16 place on sport autos list on Cw x A, they all produce 0.68.

Porsche Carerra S is on top of this list at 0.54
I know Aston martin vantage V8 prodce 1.3 G on the Corsa r-comp and is on 10 place on Cw list at 0.66.
GT3 MK 2 RS produce a 20kg front lift at 200km/h
----------------------------------

Again this will all be down to how much downforce each of this cars produce, stock tyres produce high levels of mechanical grip similar but not quite as high as R-compound tyres and the gap between the two types increase greatly with downforce where heat becomes an issue, race tyres love it, road tyres hate it. I don't doubt that all of the above cars would improve possibly 5~8 seconds unless their set-up was changed to use the full advantage available from the tyres, then up to 12~15 seconds could possibly be up for grabs.

I'm not an expert but I do understand the mechanics of the thing.

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@ledi
What you discribe obove is not the case on the ring relly.
Well we all know R-compu is in favor of street comp. But as im trying to point out the diffrence on the ring is not that big. You know why, well the street tiers dont suffer at the ring due to its not a track that over heat them. Therfor in some case as whit awd cars that aswell alredy have god grip together whit that the ring is kind to street tiers, well the gain is not always that big that one can imagin vs R-comp.

Just se what you wrote your self regarding the CSL at bedford, these tracks tend to stress street tiers more than the ring do. Even i think 6 second is much at that track, well.
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[7:53 RS6]

O, and what ever the set up as you say. The set up as you call it or constuktion, well on R8 its latest technology anyway. What ever the aim on this car was im pretty sure its produced in a sportyway, so the set up as you call it should be up to date also regardig to its aerodynamics, chassis etc, would you not agree.
Its not an old constuction like CSL then is it?

As well M6, RS4, GT3 RS 997, turbo 997 is all brand new set ups then(constuktions). Not old once.

[KresoF1]

Factory claim for Lamborghini Gallardo(520hp version, Corsa tires) is 7.44min for Ring. As we wll know von Saurma did 7.52min with old 500hp version. New Gallardo Supertest will be published in next six months... Expect around 7.50min for 520hp Gallardo with Corsas...

So, what does that mean for R8? Since factory claim is "around 7.55min"(with optional Corsas! I know that because my best friend is regional director of Sales for Audi in Southeast Europe) we can expect around 7.58min in von Saurma hands. Too slow? I do not think so because all faster cars are either more powerfull(F430, Gallardo and 997 turbo) or track oriented streetcars(M3CSL, 997GT3 and 997GT3RS).
R8 chassis has huge potential IMHO...

BTW, difference between R8 and Gallardo or 997 turbo will be extremly small in Hockenheim!