My next brake discs and pads: What is your choice?

[LU-RS6]

Hi guys,


After my 60.000km maintenance my mechanic is advising me new brake discs and pads somewhere in the next 10.000km. As I drive quite alot of km's (count with about 60.000km annually), mainly Highway, what would be your choice to buy?
I'm spending a lot of time in Germany so the brakes should hold heavy usage. Not really doing a lot of trackdays, but I'm not sure whether that would influence the choice. Basically I just want better brakes than the standard ones because everyone knows by now that they are absolutely not sufficient. I'm okay with spending some cash but not too excessively (not sure what ceramics would cost)

I've read several threads here about ceramics, movits, brembos etc but the only thing they did is making me indecisive.
It would be very nice to hear your opinion together with some details and possibly a price excl assembly.



Many thanks
LU-RS6

[gregoryindiana]

The author was a guy named Nordschleife; he had credibility. He recommended Movit.

Re: great thread

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Quote:
Originally posted by Aronis
I have a question!

What is the advantage of the free floating front rotor?

It seems to have more disadvantages due to the lack of heat dissipation by contact with the hub.

Thus I thought that just changing the front break setup to the movit setup would have a significant effect on brake longevity! This would allow us to avoid the more difficult rear change over with the extra caliper! and more money to boot!

Sounds like Audi should bite the bullet and offer brake replacement with Mov'it or similar for easy money for those who have paid $85,000 for a car with such a Achilles Heal.

Mike

Mike

Free floating rotors

The advantage of mounting the rotors on isolating pins is that it stops the heat getting into the hub. Why is this a good thing?Well, for example, some BMW M3s have had front wheel bearing problems which have caused the wheels to run out of true. Research showed that the problem lay in the bearings heating up to such an extent that the grease in the bearing became too thin, allowing too much movement within the bearing. Stopping the heat going into the wheel bearings fixed this problem.
Now good ideas for the track are not always so good for the street. Race teams don't mind swapping rotors after each race, about the cheapest thing they have. When we drive a road car swapping rotors every 4000 km is not an option.
Good track implementations incorporate an efficient air delivery system so that the air can get into the space between the two rotor surfaces at the inner circumference. In the Audi implementation, they neglected to do this.

Audi's Rear Brake Implementation

This really stinks. The root of the problem is the bean counter friendly design which allows them to connect the callipers to both the foot brake system and to the hand brake system. Now these two systems have completely different requirements. The upshot is that the rear brake does very little work. Essentially, all Audis have unbalanced braking systems, the compromises required to cope with this mean that in a number of cases, most noticably the UrS4, there is not a great deal to be gained by upgrading the rear brakes.

However, and this is the good news, modern Audis do benefit from efficient rear brakes.

The modern braking, ABS/EBD and ESP systems positively welcome the additional retardation capacity of the rear axle, and make use of it. So with a good installation absolute stopping distances will decrease. On an RS6 with 19 inch wheels and sticky summer tyres, I do not trigger the ABS system in the dry carrying out stops which are in excess of 12 m/s^2. This is really serious stopping, rarely experienced on the street. Looking at the rear rims, you can see the brake dust here, showing that for once, they are doing their share of the work.

There is another reason why upgrading the rear brakes is a good idea if you like driving on the track or have a favorite mountain pass you like to run early in the morning. The modern Quattro Audis have something called an Electronic Lock, which opereates at speeds up to 50 mph (less on the FWD cars), this and the ESP can cause extreme overheating of the rear brake system. Without modification, you cannot turn off the ESP system completely, even if you have turned it off, it will reactivate in 'extreme' situations. So your rear brakes are doing a great deal of work, the greater their heat capacity, the more likey it is that they will continue to operate as the designers intended the system (note the use of system rather than brakes) to perform.


There is another reason to upgrade the rear brakes - the stock ones will look so puny once you have done the fronts.
HTH
R+C

[nene]

MOV'IT brakes is a great choice. Much less brake dust...much much much much less. Can't say yet they last longer than stock, but I think they will, for street use.

[LU-RS6]

Thanks both for replying so fast.

I have this feeling my choice will be movit's, I'm reading movit everywhere on every forum

My next questions:

1. I have 18" winterwheels and 19" summerwheels. What size disc should I consider or what size do you recommend? On their application list on the website I am seeing 380 x 32.

2. What price can I expect for front / front&rear?

3. Do you still experience break squealing with the movit's mounted?


I will be installing the paeton brakecoolers, so that will also address the brake temperature problem a bit.


Best regards
LU-RS6

[chilli]

I have the Movit ones, only in front.
really happy with them, i went for them to Auto Tune Heinz again.
don't forget i only have the RS4 b5

[LU-RS6]

Well, the RS6 is weighing at least 200kg more so you can imagine what hell I'm going through with those standard brakes..

[jonas21]

I need to replace mine soon, too. Did you really manage to drive 60.000km without only 1 set of pads/discs? I have to replace mine every 20.000km....
I am looking at MovIT, really many good comments about them. Brembo might be an option too, but i guess i'll go for MovIT.
I see that there are 2 types of MovIT brakes for the RS6, one with 4 pistons and one with 6 pistons. Which one are you MovIT guys using?

[LU-RS6]

I need to replace mine soon, too. Did you really manage to drive 60.000km without only 1 set of pads/discs? I have to replace mine every 20.000km....

No they were changed at 30k too. I think fairly normal with this car. IMO the movits might be gone in 30K too, but at least giving me good braking performance and not like the crappy standard ones.

[Aronis]

I've seen more and more cars with the rotor's on 'pins' separating them from the hub....

The brake job on an RS6 takes very little time with a good mechanic, so the parts are the big cost. My front rotors were changed last time I had the car in for service. I requested that they 'check them' and after less than 2 hours all was finished INCLUDING the new front rotors....so it's not an expensive job by HOURs of man power cost..just the parts. So the change to Movit vs Staying stock in the long run may be a 'brake' even (LOL).

My new rotors are just that, new, and the noise is terrible...embarassing too, even after trying the usual bedding procedure...but they work just fine...I'll live with the squeek.....

Mike

[LU-RS6]

So the change to Movit vs Staying stock in the long run may be a 'brake' even (LOL).

Mike, correct me if I'm wrong, but your new rotors are thus not movits but the stock ones? I'm a bit puzzled sorry.

Regret to hear they squeal so hard...do you also experience the squealing when the brakes are still cold?

Best regards
LU-RS6

[nene]

They have front and rear setups that will fit under 18 or 19" wheels. Since you run 18" for Winter, I'd stick with something that fits under them.

My original thread with contact info

[chilli]

I have the 6 pistons , it is still possible to put the 18" winterwheels

[skiwi]

i would address the heat issues first, then see if the brake upgrde is cost effective.

i do not believe that there is anything fundamentally wrong with the front brakes other than cooling (simple experience says that the first few hard stops are fine, but after that fade sets in). so i personally will begin on the phaeton cooler upgrade in 10 days. i will be using both the phaeton and rs6 backing plates. preference is to modify the rs6 backing plates for the phaeton air-duct. if this proves too hard i will use the complete phaeton setup modified to fit.

[gjg]

Movit 370 kit will fit over 18" winter wheels (I use bbs, no spacers), 6 piston kit. Driving in Germany this is notable improvement specially in high speed breaking...

[LU-RS6]

I have just received the following prices from Belgium incl. VAT:

370mm 6 pistons front : 5.191,- EUR
322mm 4 pistons rear : 2.783,- EUR
assembly: 363,- EUR


Are these competitive prices? I hope that these brakes together with the phaeton brake addons will improve braking possibilities to a much higher level as it is a fairly large sum for brakes.


Best regards
LU-RS6

[steve]

I have just received the following prices from Belgium incl. VAT:

370mm 6 pistons front : 5.191,- EUR
322mm 4 pistons rear : 2.783,- EUR
assembly: 363,- EUR


Are these competitive prices? I hope that these brakes together with the phaeton brake addons will improve braking possibilities to a much higher level as it is a fairly large sum for brakes.


Best regards
LU-RS6

Which company in Belgium did you ask price, if I may ask?

[LU-RS6]

Autotuneheinz, they are the official dealer of Movit in Belgium. I have heard from user chilli he is very satisfied with their service and expertise (he is driving B5 RS4 with front movits and has had his engine tuned to I believe 420HP).


Best regards
LU-RS6

[jimmy94507]

i would address the heat issues first, then see if the brake upgrde is cost effective.

i do not believe that there is anything fundamentally wrong with the front brakes other than cooling (simple experience says that the first few hard stops are fine, but after that fade sets in). so i personally will begin on the phaeton cooler upgrade in 10 days. i will be using both the phaeton and rs6 backing plates. preference is to modify the rs6 backing plates for the phaeton air-duct. if this proves too hard i will use the complete phaeton setup modified to fit.

I added the Phaeton backing plate (modified) and the ducts. The RS6 backing plate is not very sturdy and you would have to weld on the angle bracket to attach the Phaeton ducts. It was easier to cut away some metal from the Phaeton backing plates, especially since I have a friend with a plasma cutter.
The ducting really helps. We're testing some better vented front rotors for track days.

Regards, Jim