R8 competition heats up.

[Leadfoot]

Audi got banned in their rally racing. Winning a race has nothing to do with how the car feels when YOU drive it. I really don't think you are taking your audi and entering it in a race everytime you hit the road. It should be very simple to understand that RWD is lighter, allows more power to the wheels, and allows easy power on correction.

Porsche puts their motors in the back, so don't know how you are using this to bolster your argument. Out of manufacturers that put their motor in the front, BMW is the most consistent at keeping a perfect weight distribution. One thing we can agree on, Audi's understeer compared to BMW's due to the weight in the front.

Did you read the tests where the S6 won? What pushed the S6 over? It certainly wasn't the performance as the M5 is in a different league. It was the price, when that is taken out of the equation, the S6 matches up better with a 550i and e550 than an M5 or E63. Those cars both are cheaper and offer up the same performance. You are insane if you think the S6 even holds a candle to the M5 or E63, the performance difference is worlds apart, and performance is what the M5 and E63 are about.

Let me answer each point made by you as best I can.

Firstly agreed we don't rally our cars every time we take them on the road, but the point was more that awd is the choice of all leading manufacturers so proves it advantage over rwd especially on road use and in all weather conditions. As for easier power on corrections, hello, if you have ever watched the FifthGear video of the M3 vs RS4 you will see the M3 produced a 38degree slid angle where as the RS4 recovered from a 90degree slid angle, now which is the easier to power on correct.

Secondly Porsche reference was used to prove that you don't need 50/50 weight balance to produce a perfect driving experience. As for your argument that BMWs understeer less than Audis do because of this perfect balance you talk about. Audi engineer understeer in for safety, something that BMW are starting to do, fwd or awd don't have to understeer because of this weight balance, the Integra Type-R doesn't and neither does the EVOs, it is Audi's choice to have understeer something I think most people are thankful of.

Thirdly the S6 vs M5 debate. As I have already said the S6 can't match the M5 on out right performance but on a recent test around a test track it all but matched the M5 and all this with an extra 150kgs and 80 less horsepower. If you put the test to a twisty road where there is no run off areas or gravel traps then yes I do think the S6 will be more than a match for the M5. You keep forgetting that most of the people who buy this cars aren't Arton Senna etc, they are normal and this is where the extra safety and confidence of awd pay big time and no 50/50 weight balance, rwd or all the might of your Ultimate Driving Machine will ever beat that.

And lastly you say that the S6 shouldn't be in the same leagues of the M5 or E63amg, well you are back to your pub figures argument, mines quicker than yours. If that's your only defense then you can keep your M5 etc and good luck to you, but no thanks I prefer quality not quantity.

Sticky, I don't know where all this argumentative side has come from but at last count I think you has got the back up on about 6 people and that's the ones that are replying to you. Take some QuietLife and watch some fish, you really need to take it easy.

[sticky]

Let me answer each point made by you as best I can.

Firstly agreed we don't rally our cars every time we take them on the road, but the point was more that awd is the choice of all leading manufacturers so proves it advantage over rwd especially on road use and in all weather conditions. As for easier power on corrections, hello, if you have ever watched the FifthGear video of the M3 vs RS4 you will see the M3 produced a 38degree slid angle where as the RS4 recovered from a 90degree slid angle, now which is the easier to power on correct.

Secondly Porsche reference was used to prove that you don't need 50/50 weight balance to produce a perfect driving experience. As for your argument that BMWs understeer less than Audis do because of this perfect balance you talk about. Audi engineer understeer in for safety, something that BMW are starting to do, fwd or awd don't have to understeer because of this weight balance, the Integra Type-R doesn't and neither does the EVOs, it is Audi's choice to have understeer something I think most people are thankful of.

Thirdly the S6 vs M5 debate. As I have already said the S6 can't match the M5 on out right performance but on a recent test around a test track it all but matched the M5 and all this with an extra 150kgs and 80 less horsepower. If you put the test to a twisty road where there is no run off areas or gravel traps then yes I do think the S6 will be more than a match for the M5. You keep forgetting that most of the people who buy this cars aren't Arton Senna etc, they are normal and this is where the extra safety and confidence of awd pay big time and no 50/50 weight balance, rwd or all the might of your Ultimate Driving Machine will ever beat that.

And lastly you say that the S6 shouldn't be in the same leagues of the M5 or E63amg, well you are back to your pub figures argument, mines quicker than yours. If that's your only defense then you can keep your M5 etc and good luck to you, but no thanks I prefer quality not quantity.

Sticky, I don't know where all this argumentative side has come from but at last count I think you has got the back up on about 6 people and that's the ones that are replying to you. Take some QuietLife and watch some fish, you really need to take it easy.

I like a good discusison I'm not going to run over to your home and beat you with your keyboard.

I'll address each one of your points now:

1. The RS4 recovered from a larger slide, it wasn't as CONTROLLABLE when sliding. He basically pitched the car sideways, he would not be able to sustain a longer drift or correct with power. Yes, traction allows recovery but the 4WD is not friendly for sideways shenanigans or power on oversteer.

2. Audi traditionally has had their weight up front. They still do, the R8 is the first car to break this mold. Audi's understeer isn't just there for safety, it is how physics apply when the weight is on the front wheels. BMW's understeer as well, just as a much higher limit allowing for the most part a higher cornering limit. Every major auto manufacturer has a level of understeer dialed in for safety. With electronic nannies you have to turn them off to really get yourself into trouble, with which how good these systems are getting I don't see a reason to turn the stability control off to gain a 1/10 of a second if you are a pro driver around a circuit. The integra type R does understeer, but very minimally and at the limit as it is superbly balanced. All FWD's do to an extent, how wouldn't they?

3. One thing we can agree on is the performance difference, as it is can't really be disputed. These are performance cars, if you just want the comfort and safety, a standard A6 will do nicely. Styling and all the others are subjective and the S6 is a beauty inside and out. I have never owned an AWD cars (my SUV's aside of course) and don't see any reason to. Perhaps I am in the minority saying I would prefer a lighter, RWD R8. Where I live it rarely rains and I can have summer tires on all year. From a purely performance standpoint, the M5 stands above. I am all for the RS6 to come, and come quickly, as the S6 really doesn't have the power to take the crown. I am patiently waiting for Audi to respond to the 63's and M5's and I am sure they will.