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Thread: NEW RS6 - What we've been waiting for!!!!!

  1. #145
    Registered User Damienr8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benman View Post
    You know, I didn't even think of that example! Even "lowly" Chevy could drop 100 some lbs out of an already light car and gave it more power, refinement, etc. for $20K! If Audi can't, then they are hardly "Vorsprung durch Technic" and are indeed, "Resting on their Laurels". Come on Audi, lead!



    Ben
    Audi definitely needs to drop some pounds on all models. This can be accomplished with a revised platform struction, suspension components, a new/lighter quattro system (maybe the nex gen quattro), etc.

    I would love to see the A4 Quattro drop 150 lbs

  2. #146
    Banned SuperstarDriver's Avatar
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    audi has demonstrated that is the leader of the premium sport car makers when they inovate on every single model they present to the market!for example first and ONLY sunroof with voltaic cells to ventilate the interior without using the battery of the car, the first comercial car in the world with LED technology:AUDI R8 (i think i never saw lights like in the R8 in my whole life...i am speechless), first DRC in the world, Magneride on premium cars, extreme sport steering flat on the bottom of it like in the Formula 1 cars(RS4,S3,TT,R8), DSG (first gearbox with double shifted system that don't loose any torque and power when shifting) and many many more that BMW and MB didn't dream at it or it will develop systems very closer by Audi Technology!Vorsprung durch Technic...

  3. #147
    Registered User Damienr8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperstarDriver View Post
    audi has demonstrated that is the leader of the premium sport car makers when they inovate on every single model they present to the market!for example first and ONLY sunroof with voltaic cells to ventilate the interior without using the battery of the car, the first comercial car in the world with LED technology:AUDI R8 (i think i never saw lights like in the R8 in my whole life...i am speechless), first DRC in the world, Magneride on premium cars, extreme sport steering flat on the bottom of it like in the Formula 1 cars(RS4,S3,TT,R8), DSG (first gearbox with double shifted system that don't loose any torque and power when shifting) and many many more that BMW and MB didn't dream at it or it will develop systems very closer by Audi Technology!Vorsprung durch Technic...
    Superstar you sould be the forum spokesperson for Audi

  4. #148
    Registered User Leadfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benman View Post
    You know, I didn't even think of that example! Even "lowly" Chevy could drop 100 some lbs out of an already light car and gave it more power, refinement, etc. for $20K! If Audi can't, then they are hardly "Vorsprung durch Technic" and are indeed, "Resting on their Laurels". Come on Audi, lead!



    Ben
    You are choosing your examples from low volume models. The TT, A8 and Vette Z06 are all specialised models, this is easier the achieve when you are working with low volume cars. To achieve this with high volume motors requires a total rethink, even Jag decided to not to go down this route with the S-Type even though the basic structure was there from the XJ and it all came down to costs. On the A8, TT and R8 this models command a premium over their lesser brother, the TT is 4K more than the similar A3, the A8 is 15K+ over the A6 though both are roughly the same size and the R8 is based on the Gallardo. Even Porsche don't use alloy body/chassis on their models.

    For Audi to choose alloy on it's next A6 would require an increase of at least 4~5K increase per model, now this may be acceptable for the S6 and RS6 it would destroy the sale of the basic A6s.

    You guys have to stop thinking about the top model and think about the bigger picture. It easier and cheaper the increase the power and re-engineer the top models with minor weight reductions than a total weight reduction of the complete range.
    Search and you will find the truth.

  5. #149
    Registered User Damienr8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leadfoot View Post
    You are choosing your examples from low volume models. The TT, A8 and Vette Z06 are all specialised models, this is easier the achieve when you are working with low volume cars. To achieve this with high volume motors requires a total rethink, even Jag decided to not to go down this route with the S-Type even though the basic structure was there from the XJ and it all came down to costs. On the A8, TT and R8 this models command a premium over their lesser brother, the TT is 4K more than the similar A3, the A8 is 15K+ over the A6 though both are roughly the same size and the R8 is based on the Gallardo. Even Porsche don't use alloy body/chassis on their models.

    For Audi to choose alloy on it's next A6 would require an increase of at least 4~5K increase per model, now this may be acceptable for the S6 and RS6 it would destroy the sale of the basic A6s.

    You guys have to stop thinking about the top model and think about the bigger picture. It easier and cheaper the increase the power and re-engineer the top models with minor weight reductions than a total weight reduction of the complete range.

    Agree. If audi adds the premium for weight reduction onto models like the S8, RS6, etc. then thats fine. For instance, creating an All new Aluminum body for the A4 sedan would result in a nominally large base price increase. This would affect competition with say the 3 series, is, etc.

  6. #150
    Banned SuperstarDriver's Avatar
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    you know you have right?but...ASF is a symbol of Audi and will grow with the next platform that it will be used for the new A4,A5,A6 and A8 so all the new cars from Audi will definetively have aluminium on their construction...look at the TT...so perfect in shassy...ASF will groth in Audi range for sure...that i heard from a post of Winterkorn at audiworld.com!so ASF, Quattro, single-frame,flat steering design are a symbol of Audi...nobody could copy that...

  7. #151
    Registered User Damienr8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperstarDriver View Post
    you know you have right?but...ASF is a symbol of Audi and will grow with the next platform that it will be used for the new A4,A5,A6 and A8 so all the new cars from Audi will definetively have aluminium on their construction...look at the TT...so perfect in shassy...ASF will groth in Audi range for sure...that i heard from a post of Winterkorn at audiworld.com!so ASF, Quattro, single-frame,flat steering design are a symbol of Audi...nobody could copy that...
    Thats good to know. It would be awesome to see the A4 use a 65% (correct me if im wrong) aluminum frame structure as the new TT does without a price change. That would rock!!! I can only wish for the A4 to be 150lbs lighter.

  8. #152
    Moderator Benman's Avatar
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    simple economics

    Quote Originally Posted by Leadfoot View Post
    You are choosing your examples from low volume models. The TT, A8 and Vette Z06 are all specialised models, this is easier the achieve when you are working with low volume cars...
    Actually...

    The Z06 production run is @ 5,000 cars a year for the US alone. That may not sound like much, but that is 5 times the RS 6 run here (and really, it's 15 times the RS 6 run considering the Z06 will endure for 3 years minimum) so my point is the Z06 is not that low of a production run (yes, compared to the worldwide A6 run, maybe). And the TT is hardly a small production vehicle as tens of thousands sell here every year (nearly as many units as A3s).

    Quote Originally Posted by Leadfoot View Post
    For Audi to choose alloy on it's next A6 would require an increase of at least 4~5K increase per model, now this may be acceptable for the S6 and RS6 it would destroy the sale of the basic A6s.

    You guys have to stop thinking about the top model and think about the bigger picture. It easier and cheaper the increase the power and re-engineer the top models with minor weight reductions than a total weight reduction of the complete range.


    No, it would not, this is really a matter of simple economics (my kinda field ). If the TT sells far less units than the A6 (which, although it sells close to the number of A3s here, it does not sell near the # of units that the A4s and A6s sell here) and can sell for $4K (8K USD) over the A3, why on Earth would the A6 (a much higher unit) need to charge a $4k (8K USD) premium? And consider too that the part of the TT's "premium" is for the total redesign over a A3 (total interior, exterior, safety "fees", etc...). My point? Again, the cost of an A6 designed from the beginning as including a high aluminum content could far better amortize the development cost than a "low volume" TT ever could.

    If the development cost of such a project (additional aluminum only) was, for example, $150,000,000.00 (USD ) then to amortize that on a vehicle such as the TT, to come to the $4K ($8K USD) premium is only a projected 18,750units. Not very difficult for worldwide distribution. Now, lets say that Audi GmbH decided to give us a TT like Alu-front, steel rear and said project would actually be less (again, not a complete redesign like the TT/A3, but a design from the beginning) than the exampled development cost would be projected more like $110,000,000.00 (USD). Now, I'm thinking they could charge merely $1500.00 (USD) premium over last years "old tech" A6. For those figures to add up, Audi would need to sell 73,333.xx A6s. Not very difficult considering the A6 (C5) had a run (in the US) from 98'-03'! And that is just in the US! So how hard would it be for Audi to recoupe their costs over 5+ years worldwide on A6s if it designed that aspect of the Alu-front/steel rear from the beginning? Not very hard, not very hard at all.

    Ben
    Einstein once said, "I want to know God's thoughts, the rest are details."
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  9. #153
    Registered User Leadfoot's Avatar
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    Ben,

    By the looks of it, you have it all worked out. All we need is to find the money for a take-over bid and with you as the head we will make VAG the biggest, most profitable car company in the world.
    Search and you will find the truth.

  10. #154
    Banned SuperstarDriver's Avatar
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    it is the most profitable or it will be until 2015 according to Forbes Magazine...and another thing...Forbes said that Audi (just Audi not PAG, VAG it doesn't exist from 1.01.2007) will be NO.1 BEST PREMIUM CAR MAKERS IN THE WORLD...at this point Audi is no 2 after MB and 3 place is BMW...so Audi will beat MB soon..very soon...on materials used to build their cars are way better than BMW and MB, on sporty cars the same but on sales are liitle bit lower then MB but if you all know Audi sales are growing fast every month so...AUDI WILL BEAT AGAIN THE CRAP OF BMW AND MB!I just wait...

  11. #155
    Registered User audi713's Avatar
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    noushy

    The RS4 is well over 4000, and that is a huge blow in the handling.

    Have u driven the rs4?

  12. #156
    Registered User noushy's Avatar
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    Yes, I have driven the RS4 for a very brief amount of time. I love the car, but just too small for me. I am more curious how it will compare with the new M3 as far as handling.

    Peace,
    Noushy
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  13. #157
    Registered User Leadfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noushy View Post
    Yes, I have driven the RS4 for a very brief amount of time. I love the car, but just too small for me. I am more curious how it will compare with the new M3 as far as handling.

    Peace,
    Noushy
    That's the 64,000 dollar question now isn't it.

    I think we will be back to the old argument between the two, the M3 being the more entertaining on the track and the RS4 the competent and confidence inspiring on the road.

    A bit like milkshake, strawberry or chocolate. What's your favourite?
    Search and you will find the truth.

  14. #158
    Registered User Lateknight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperstarDriver View Post
    it is the most profitable or it will be until 2015 according to Forbes Magazine...and another thing...Forbes said that Audi (just Audi not PAG, VAG it doesn't exist from 1.01.2007) will be NO.1 BEST PREMIUM CAR MAKERS IN THE WORLD..
    PAG

    PAG = Premier Auto Group - FORD premium brand sector (Jag/Volvo/Aston) - Nothing to do with Volkswagen or Audi

  15. #159
    Banned SuperstarDriver's Avatar
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    PAG=PORSCHE AUDI GROUP!RS4 it will handwell much better then the new M3...the DRC System works very very precise and i was amazed what you can do with that car!M3 is a shittie RWD car...the only car makers in the world who actually know how to made a quite efficient and sport RWD system are Porsche,Ferrari,Aston Martin and MB...that's it!

  16. #160
    Registered User Lateknight's Avatar
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    Why - If your not sure of anything - do you make shit up ?

    PAG that you mean, actually stands for Porsche AG (Porsche AktienGesellschaft)

    AktienGesellschaft = referring to a stock holding company (not Audi Group )

    See also: Siemens AG, Deutche Bank AG and most others on the German stock exchanges.

  17. #161
    Registered User Lateknight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperstarDriver View Post
    PAG=PORSCHE AUDI GROUP!RS4 it will handwell much better then the new M3...the DRC System works very very precise and i was amazed what you can do with that car!M3 is a shittie RWD car...the only car makers in the world who actually know how to made a quite efficient and sport RWD system are Porsche,Ferrari,Aston Martin and MB...that's it!
    err.... ever heard of LOTUS ??

    They make more money now out of consultancy (sorting out handling on other manufacters cars) than they do with their own cars.

  18. #162
    Registered User noushy's Avatar
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    In superstar's defense (difficult to btw), Porsche does have a 20% ownership in VAG, but I do not know of the group having a new name. I think he is just a little over enthusiastic, and I would try to keep the flaming down a bit. Superstar, it is great to love a certain brand or model (ie Audi or RS4), but be careful about bold statements that are difficult if impossible to prove (like M3 vs. RS4, since M3 is not even available yet). On the forums we try to be objective. It is okay to give your opinion, but make sure you state it that way.

    Peace,
    Noushy
    Speed, Speed, and more Spe... oops the minivan?
    2003 RS6 Mugello Blue (gone/turned in)
    2003 911tt Cobalt Blue (gone/traded in)
    2004 Cayenne Turbo Titanium Gray
    2005 Toyota Sienna (until Q7 in May 07)
    2007 M6 Saphire Black (loving it)

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