I figure there must be an Audi nut on here who has owned them all. I am curious about driving and ownership experiences with the RS4 and late model S4 - US specs. How do they stack up to the feel of the RS6?
Printable View
I figure there must be an Audi nut on here who has owned them all. I am curious about driving and ownership experiences with the RS4 and late model S4 - US specs. How do they stack up to the feel of the RS6?
i have a stage 3 b5 s4. does that count? its a very fun car.
And....what's the driving consensus comparatively?Quote:
Originally Posted by Korben007
I have driven them.
You see my sig....
Too subjective and owner preferences differ.
Now a B5 RS4 avant....different story. I should have bought that 50k Avus one a few years back.
What turbo's are on it and what kind of power output? How does it stack up to the TT V8? It has to be easier in terms of maintenance and better reliability..? Does it give the same runaway-freight train kind of feeling when you put the hammer down?Quote:
Originally Posted by Korben007
I am really curious about people's experiences, specifically, what are they like to drive and own in comparison to the TT V8. I can assume things like "the lighter S4 will handle better," but things are not always as they seem once you get behind the wheel.
My wife is currently driving an A4 2.0T Quattro and we are considering upgrading ;). I am trying to sell her on a RS6, but her car is a 2007 and she doesn't like the idea of an older Audi.
Owned an rs4 (b7 obv) before my RS6 actually. Miss the manual, great tight package, better cockpit feel than RS6, lacked RS6 punch, Getrag 6 is best I've ever driven, way better than b8 s4's manual, which I have driven, fun to drive RS4 in higher RPM range, my RS4 was great after I got a tune and would run it with race gas on the 100 octane program - would pull like a mule on the hwy.
Oh but funny thing about cost to own vis-a-vis wives. My wife would let me buy an RS4 today right now but would need significant coaxing to buy an RS6. She liked RS6 space better and would be more willing to drive an automatic but the RS4 left a better impression.
I almost purchased a B5 S4 Avant but it wasn't quite the same experience as the RS6.Quote:
Originally Posted by rwheelz
The bells/whistles on any non-RS model wasn't I was looking for, it was the V8 TT AWD.
When approaching triple digits, the bells and whistles are NOT what I was looking at...
Yeah I figured only the RS4 or newest S4 would approach the feel of the RS6 in terms of power train. I would settle for a little less given than they come in a 6 speed, but there are reports of carbon build-up issues on RS4's and associated high maintenance costs. Dmb408 says it all when he tells me that it "lacked RS6 punch."
Anyone own the supercharged V6 S4? They sure look the part and are available with a sport diff and 6 speed. The only person I know who test drove one at a dealership said it was boring to drive, but he is strictly Porsche and thinks everything else feels numb by comparison.
The RS6 will easily run away, in a straight line from the S4's and RS4's. Can't beat Turbo Torque.
Owned a warmed over B6S4 MT6 Avant I bought with 12K on it. Excellent driving dynamics even as the factory built it. Only issue was a failed coil pack. My RS6 would have to work hard keeping up in the tight to mid speed back roads curves. You have to "work" the RS6. The width just makes it's presence known, and slows things down. I have driven back roads with a B7S4 Avant, another RS6 (hey lswing) and a Porsche Boxster S. It was work keeping up in the tight stuff. Back then I had crappy pads, wannabe sport tires (S04's), and shot wheel bearings. All that's been attended to. Should be much better to drive fast, and less stressful.
For a daily driver the 6 is a great car. Fast, comfy, decent MPG. Decent dyanmics (with a suspension upgrade) and decent non-variable rate steering with good weighting (but still prefer more). The RS6 is for me obviously an older car with some early driver features (smart trans, stability control a bit too protective).
Drove an RS4 a bit and really liked the solid feel, size, decent power and great sound. Car was monumentally slower getting up to speed (lack of extreme torque), but if driven aggressively does all right. Downsides was the terrible seats-- far too high even at the lowest setting (google it). Dreadful MPG if driven sporty. Love to own one, however....supercharged.
Also played in a S5 V8 MT6 a bit and like that. But it felt too light in the feedback (shifting, brakes), but love the FSI engine. Heavy mid range torque surge like the RS6, but then quickly fizzles, and 7300RPM isn't enough, at all. Needs Supercharging.....
B5 S4's can be quick. Driving dynamics in the B5 are just not there (for me). Over-assisted steering, total lack of road feedback. Driven many of them.
Every time I get behind the wheel of a B6/B7 S4 I really like it. It's a drivers car with a few changes-- ain't fast in a straight line, but nice overall experience (the auto's can get 25MPG). BTW- we also have a B7 A4 QM Avant.
My Objective Subjective Input.... which will include an R8 V8 here shortly.
Like this thread... esp bc might / maybe/ prob. abt. to buy friends B5 S4 he's owned since new and cared for well.. all maintenance current blv it or not. Its just my personal sweet spot = same way I ended up w my RS6 = letting a car from a person I know and trust find me than other way around.
And he is willing to let it go cheap to me. Silver black. And I have a 16.5 yr. old kid I think its a good first car.... she is responsible and thoughtful. And IMO having some juice behind your pedal can save you and actually make you safer in many situations than driving an anemic gimp.
And even tho the current mfg.er trend is hi efficiency turbos, that b5 s4 was nothing of the sort (nor is period RS6) and is destine to be an icon and most of them have been slammed and trashed and destroyed by the gen X or Y or whatever set. I think I gotta get it. He'll sell it to me for like $3.5k and its clean clean garage kept maint. out the wazoo.... I think it has belt and chain?? all done + idlers / water pump etc. within past 10k mi.s. Total mi.s are abt. 85k I think.
Uhhhh Cbeau if you don't want that car, I will GLADLY come pick it up! Second dibs..?
G2 you are just the Audi nut i was hoping to find! Is your B7 A4 the 2.0T? Is it modified at all? We wanted an Avant when we bought the A4, but settled for a sedan in better condition. It is a great car, but honestly it is difficult for me to drive in terms of how gutless it is under acceleration. For my wife commuting in the snow... it works. But occasionally, at least, I will be driving this car, and I do not want to drive a stock-powered A4. Rather than modify it, I was thinking of upgrading.
I am convinced all of the Audi's are great cars, if you buy the model with the right power train. I may try and get a test drive in a newish S4, then decide whether I should push her toward an RS6 or the newer car.
I have a very well cared for and healthy B5 S4, stg2, stock turbos. And I'd choose the S4 over the RS any day for canyon craving. The S4 is smaller, lighter, and much more nimble in every way. The RS6 will hand my S4 its ass in a straight line, after all it has about 150 more hp, but I still choose to drive my S4 for fun drives. And it doesn't help the RS6s case that it is a crappy auto, and my S4 is a 6spd. I love my RS6 for highway cruising and hauling my family around, but in my opinion, I enjoy my S4 more.
And btw, everytime I get behind the wneel of a new 3.0T S4, S5, even SQ5, I just cant believe how much fun those motors are. Such a powerful and linear torque curve. Same goes for the new 4.0TTs in the S6, S7, and S8's. Audi has really hit the ball out of the park with those two motors.
I worked at an Audi dealer for about a year in 2012; during that time, I had a 2012 S4 Premium Plus (6MT with navigation, sports diff, bang and olufsen stereo, parking sensors) on employee lease for 6 months and 12,000 miles. The B8 S4 was a great car and I very well might get another one to replace the RS6. It's not as fast and lacks the V8 engine note, but it's extremely responsive thanks to the roots-style blower, much more fuel efficient (I saw 22mpg average vs. 15mpg in the RS), and sounds good for a V6. It also has all the modern tech; MMI navigation, Bluetooth, HD radio, keyless access, backup camera, etc. It's about the same size inside, too. Tune and exhaust get it to 410hp, though the car is underrated at 333bhp; they dyno at 300whp bone stock!
Also, she's no lightweight by any stretch of the truth, but the B8 S4 definitely felt lighter on its feet compared to the RS6; I think there's roughly a 300lb weight difference.
le sigh, I miss her:
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...012S4/pic3.jpghttp://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...012S4/pic4.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...012S4/pic2.jpghttp://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...012S4/pic1.jpg
Hey. The A4 is the 2.0T. It has a full Stasis exhaust and drilled rotors. Pretty sure it's not chipped, but moves okay. The 6MT helps but gearing is very tall. Very. Good MPG and cruises 80MPH at lazy V8 revs. I personally wanted the Auto trans, and think it's a better match for the wee 2.0T. Sometimes I wish for a chip for that almost 300lbft TQ.Quote:
Originally Posted by rwheelz
Be sure to check the air box for a plugged pre-filter screen. Typical issue. I remove them and just keep the filter clean. I put in a KN, and modifiied the air box-- removed the sound damper and air horn to MAF.
My wife loves the RS6, but doesn't like driving it in town or parking it. People also drives aggressively around her, trying to invoke a race or road rage. She's a great driver and is even more OCD than I am about avoiding door dings, etc. But the power still scares her and the car potential is barely utilized. An RS6 makes for a very expensive daily driver....most woman will normally like the newer car, but that's another ball of wax.
I have both and stage 3 b5 s4 and RS6 stage 2 sitting in the garage right now. both manual transmission. They drive completely different. I would say the s4 is easier to drive and handles better. They both give me the same satisfaction on acceleration. I love the space of the RS6 Avant. I depends really what im up to that day. I drive the S4 more often as it just feels easier to get around. Its got the hybrid RS4 K04 turbos doesn't accelerate that much slower then the RS6. It is missing that V8 kick in your butt instant torque the v8 TT has and the sound is completely different. I would say the maintenance is easier to perform on the S4 much simpler package. I haven't had the RS long enough to comment on the long term reliability but it certainly eats up way more gas.Quote:
Originally Posted by rwheelz
Compared to other RS cars and NA V8s. They pure strait line torque onset of a Turbo vehicle cant be matched. Ive driven a new RS5 and much prefer the RS6, especially with a manual there is nothing missing(maybe DSG). Now I do really like the b7 RS4, however i not consider it without a supercharger. Its much slower then a proper B5 S4 and a RS6. I will agree the transmission is great though. I wish they DSG could be a player but that kinda stuff if just for daily drivers. My b5 S4 is a great daily. It has 187K and going strong and I still love driving it everyday. The RS6 has 63K and going strong and seem to enough it more for a family outing or a weekend jaunt.
Bottom line. The RS6 is a more costly car to own then most. To me the older B5 and C5 have a much more solid quality feel then the newer Audi's. I would never consider one a downgrade. The RS6 handles plenty well to keep up with a pack of other Audi s and rs cars on the mountain twisties. It just takes a little more work...
i didn't drive any of the old school B5 S or RS, have only driven the B6/B8 S4 manual, S5 V8 manual, B8 RS4 and C7 S6. Pointless to say that i was most impressed with the S6 and the most disappointing was the RS4, probably because i was expecting too much from it, but when you have an M3 as a competition which comes with a turbo engine you must have high expectations from an RS4, sadly it is rather a disappointment and apart from being offered as an Avant i don't see any other advantage over the new M3.
It felt slow, great sound and gearbox and the Sport differential also makes a huge difference, but that can't make up for lack of toque nor for not having that special feel inside, looks beefy from outside but the interior is too dull and outdated i'd say. Yeah, the C5 is outdated as well, but that car is special so it doesn't really matter :) .
Would rather get the B8 S4 which is much more fun and the 3.0T is a master piece and has a lot of potential to be unleashed, the one i drove was a stage 2 rated at close to 420hp, very linear power delivery, speed was so deceiving, at 100mph you'd say you're only doing 60mph, really felt and probably was faster than my C5.
S6 was a great experience, definitely one of the best cars Audi made and one of the best engines out there and coupled with the S-tronic and Quattro is brilliant, a bit dull on the outside, steering is missing a lively feedback, though it is better and much more connected than what we have on the C5.
S5 V8 and B6 S4, both manual, really engaging cars, very alive, especially the S5, i liked the steering and the gearbox, but to me the B6 felt more planted while the S5 felt too light.
If i had to choose one, of course it would be the C7 RS6, but i would be very happy with either an S6 or an B8 S4.
Great information here- thank you for the detailed responses. I have always admired the B5 S4. It would be hard to find one with low mileage in great condition. B8 S4's are all over the place, but the prices seem to vary even for similar cars, and most of the used ones are at small-time/second-hand car dealerships.
I was not considering the V8 S4 cars (B6 AND B7, I think?) at all. We live at elevation and appreciate/enjoy having boost. I thought the RS4 might be so special that it was worth considering, despite being normally aspirated.
My wife loves the handling, 6spd, and interior quality/amenities in the A4 (it is a loaded model). I am sure if I put in an APR tune it would be all the power that she would ever need in her winter commuter, but I don't really want another modified car as we already have several, and it still won't be a power band that I find satisfying for the times when I drive the car.
I still think the B5 RS4 is the best OEM package in their 30 year lineup since the Sport Quattro. The RS4 was only (slightly) lacking in braking and a simple set of sways. Overall, great package.
Hmmm yes but unless you mis-typed, the B5 RS4 was only available overseas, not in the U.S..
Typed accurately. Overall, in any market, B5 RS4. I'm sure the C7 RS6 would rival it... although no 6MT available from factory.
Just not in the US; or was it imported, or your time over seas?Quote:
Originally Posted by alrightroad
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_RS_4
C7 RS6 even faster and better with auto trans I say!
If I were given the opportunity to buy these 3 cars
1 B5 RS4 avant
2 C5 RS6 avant
3 C7 RS6 avant
I would buy them in that order. No question
Just to be clear, I cannot get a B5 RS4 here in the U.S., correct?
DHall1 how would you rank C5 RS6, B8 S4, B5 S4, B7RS4? I think only the B5 S4 is offered as an avant stateside, from what I have read. We would always prefer the wagon, if available.
I approve this post!Quote:
Originally Posted by DHall1
You live in the mtns? Right
daily for the wife?
Ezpz
B8 S4 is the only real choice. Look at my signature....while the Q platform is not my first choice we need the space. My first choice for the wife would be B8 S4 avant. Not going to happen with the jack offs at AOA so the SQ will have to work. Btw I just lowered our SQ today...again the ass hats at AOA brought our SQs at higher specs than europe. It never ends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwheelz
Since we are touching on a soft spot in my heart for avants... everyone should take note of this and put on your calendar for July 2015>>> www.campallroad.com
I'm on the leadership team and we are pulling in all Audi avant enthusiasts from around the country. One goal is "hey, Audi, look at this, we want more avants... and with "S" and "RS" in name if possible". As you all know, the only avant in the lineup right now is the 2.0T A4 platform allroad with no C series on the horizon. Yep, that's it. I love my C5 stage 3 6MT allroad. BUT, we need more options, she is getting old. Guys, if you care about your Audi avant craving, please get involved in the social media side of Camp allroad and bring your Audi a$$ to Colorado next summer for the event. We will have a federalized B5 RS4 and C5 RS6 attending. There will be a couple S6/RS6 converts coming as well (Korben?). Working on an RS2 from Canadian member and C6 and C7 RS6 avants from AoA. They have 2 here on the ground.
You won't want to miss this event!
I drive a lightly-modded B8 S4 (ECU tune, intake, STaSIS "Touring" Suspension) and have driven enough miles in a C5 RS6 to be able to make some comparisons.Quote:
Originally Posted by rwheelz
First thing, as has been pointed out, is that the 3.0T supercharged V6 engine is a masterpiece. Incredibly responsive, and with lots of untapped potential left with the factory tune. It has actually spoiled me for most turbocharged engines, because even good ones have SOME turbo-lag. The instant response of the supercharger gives you lots of extra options whether in street or track driving. Stock to stock, the C5 RS 6 and B8 S4 run about even in measured acceleration (about 13.0 1/4 mile, high 4s 0-60), but even a simple ECU flash for the B8 improves those to low/mid 12s and about 4.0, and adding a pulley makes high 11s and high 3s possible. AND the transmission doesn't grenade when tuned cars are driven in anger, which is quite different than the C5.
Second thing is the much tidier dimensions of the B-chassis, and the extra maneuverability that it brings.
Third thing is the modern cabin tech - the C5 is in the dark ages, by comparison.
Fourth thing is the overall reliability. The B8 has proven to be one of the most reliable modern Audis - few issues, and none really serious.
The RS6 has more "shock and awe" value from its fender flares to its "wait....then BOOM" throttle response, but the B8 S4 is a far better car overall.
So what you're really saying is the RS6 is a way better car overall....just kidding, thanks for the good perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCD2.7T
LOL! :lovl:Quote:
Originally Posted by lswing
The fifth thing is this
The RS6 was and always will be the first RS on US soil.
Quality materials and comfort in a 4000 lb rocket sled. I take the RS6...oh wait I already have.
I love the B8 S4 and as I said I want another one to replace the RS6, but if money were no object I'd keep the RS6 and bring it into the modern world with the RNS-E, Bluetooth, reverse cam, Recaro seats, 6spd manual conversion, 3-400lbs weight reduction, and of course, dual ball bearing turbos ;)
no doubt that the B8 S4 is a great car, i'd take that over the B8 RS4, but it is too blunt both outside and inside and while the 3.0T is a masterpiece doesn't have the grunt of the V8. However, unlike the C5 RS6 it is a perfect weapon of daily/spirited driving without having to fear that the gearbox would let you down. I have a friend who imported an S4 from the US, as here they never brought it, has an APR tune and close to 60k miles and that car was really beaten up as this guy is known for abusing cars and it still holds ok, you can feel it it is a bit tired from all the harsh driving but i am sure the C5 would've collapsed a lot quicker under his ownership :) . He also has a S6 C7 he bought new and has now close to 45k miles and same story, but the car shows no signs of fatigue, and i pretty much think those cars have seen each day one controlled launch :) . Oops, just remembered, the gearbox on the S4 was replaced under warranty, go figure why... :)
So indeed the new S and RS models seem to be taken much better the harsh continued driving .
But just as Turbowned said, i'd love to have both the C5 and something from the newer generation, preferably a TTRS, which to me seems the perfect RS car, very very fun to drive, amazing engine and gearbox but obviously it can only be a second car when you have family. The other 4 doors RS's, are more of a compromise and will be penalized when it comes to handling. Most likely the newer RS5 and RS4 will have supercharged engines and that will change the balance.
S cars are nice and mainly the S4 and S6 are very good but they lack the "special sauce" and that for me is kind of a deal breaker, i want the car to feel different than the regular A4 and A6 and the differences are so minimal in appearance, i think they should've kept the flared arches for the S models as well, that would've made them stand out.