Video: S6 vs. M5 vs. E63

[Erik]

Teaser: http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/video.php?illustration=40

Audi S6, BMW M5 and Mercedes' new E63 AMG: three supersaloons, 1435bhp and a rendezvous in Lyon. Our mission? To test Germany's finest to the limit on the trail of gangster flick Ronin – while trying to avoid the attention of les gendarmes... Watch a clip here, then read the full story in October's CAR magazine, out 30 August.



Iiiiiin-joy!!! :heart:

[Erik]

Not a funny read, but here are the acceleration figures for these cars (AutoBild)

http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artikel.php?artikel_id=12076&artikel_seite=1

Audi S6 - BMW M5 - Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG
0–200 km/h 18,0 s 13,5 s 15,0 s

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Erik
Not a funny read, but here are the acceleration figures for these cars (AutoBild)

http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artikel.php?artikel_id=12076&artikel_seite=1

Audi S6 - BMW M5 - Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG
0–200 km/h 18,0 s 13,5 s 15,0 s

There no to a car than just how quick it is, that's only important to BMW drivers. Audi drivers see the bigger picture.

Anyway that the job for the RS6. :hahahehe:

[AndyBG]

Great Erik, i love these kind of videos.... :0:

[QuattroFun]

Well, we have surely beaten the RS6 speculation to death by now - but it will probably not be faster than the M5 in the straightline with its weight handicap and transmission loss from quattro. To be sure, the S6 is no track car and was never intended to be one - but truth told, the fresh test in Sport Auto against the (good but not spectacular) M5 is outright embarassing, as the gap on overall sportiness is nothing short of enormous. Beyond the straightline, hopefully they do their job on the RS6 much, much better than has been the case for the S6.

[Leadfoot]

After reading the test of the M5 vs E63 vs S6 in CAR magazine and it's report on the R8's up and coming Targa version, I must say that it is the most anti-Audi magazine in the UK. They basically trashed the R8 as an unexciting car that no one will buy, why. Are they basing their judgements on having driven the car, no, they are basing it on how the Gallardo drives which they think is unexciting:vhmmm: that's the most laughable statement I have ever heard. Sure it might not be as good as the new F430 which is a new model not one that 3years old, but no way is it not exciting to drive.

As for the above roadtest, was the outcome in any doubt. The winner the M5 and the wooden spoon the S6. With such a marked difference between two tests from differing countries one Germany were the S6 won and the M5 lost and the opposite in the UK, one has to wonder who is right.

I will answer this for you with a question.
How many M5 owners have now changed to RS4?

Enough said.

[QuattroFun]

Originally posted by Leadfoot
After reading the test of the M5 vs E63 vs S6 in CAR magazine and it's report on the R8's up and coming Targa version, I must say that it is the most anti-Audi magazine in the UK.

Yeah, I also subscribed to CAR magazine for a few years in the past and saw the exact same bias. Even Autocar, which (or I should rather say when led by Sutcliffe) used categorically and even passionately hate Audis, is much much more balanced these days (Sutcliffe still excluded, of course). One-eyed and even misplaced praising (such as CAR on BMWs) may falsely boost the brand loyalists egos - but it does the readers no favours as consumers and car buyers and is more like reading official marketing material and in-brand magazines.

A balanced and healthy critisism such as in Autocar and Evo in these reformed days against all three German main marques is a useful supplement to own experiences (although they still seem to love Porsche and some other brands (even Jaguar!) too much to be really objective on that).

In general, the German mags are much more organised as they usually have a template points sheets for all relevant items and summary scores whereas the UK mags draw heavily on personal intution and impression - or when they have the items (like ride & handling), they weigh them very differently for different cars. Why does the M3 always get 5 stars in the UK overall despite an apalling ride and not very feelsome steering even according to the same mags whereas that same stated vices have been reason enough to degrade most sporty Audi's to three stars?

S6 looks good in some tests like Autobild and bad in some like Sport Auto: it depends on the angle of course - Autobild put high marks on allround talent and daily useability (i.e. the S6's natural environment) whereas Sport Auto on the other extreme purely values the cars based on quantitative sport-oriented test statistics like acceleration, lateral g, aeorodynamics, lane manouvering, slalom, warm braking distances and Hockenheim & Norschliefe track times and wet handling track times.

Interestingly enough, CAR magazine and Autobild are actually sister magazines and Georg Kacher also writes for CAR...

[Leadfoot]

QuattroFun,

I would say that Sutcliffe is one of the most biased editors around. I remember reading a review in which he tested a M3 against a S4 in a wet weather road test in which he still found the M3 to be fastest. This must be the only ever test to get this finding and was the one that made me take all of his reviews with a pinch of salt to coin a phase.

In all UK magazines there is a tier system that they all use. And it usually go like this Audi - Mercedes - BMW - Porsche - Ferrari, in almost all tests you will find this. In the UK steering feel is possibly the most important thing, but most normal drivers who haven't had lots of time on a track don't know the signs that the steering is telling them and find a bucking steering wheel very unnerving to say the least. One ample would be my own brother who owns a Boxster S and is not a bad pilot, test drove a RS4 and found new confidence in the RS4 that he never had in the Porsche. I personally put this down to a more relaxed steering wheel as much to the fact it's 4 wheel drive. I have always felt that Audis can be driven faster down any given road than a BMW and it usually down to the relaxed steering.

Now to the point of ride quality, for me this has been a on going problem that I have had with sporty Audis. Why can VW get it right with the GTI and the R32 but Audi can't with it's equivalent models:vhmmm: is this down to the fact that they don't test in the UK, maybe. But I'm not sure that BMW or Mercedes test their M or AMG models here either or for that matter do Porsche but they on the whole get it right.

There has been a turn around for Audi with the RS4 and S8 that shows that Audi can get it right over here, so why was the S6 so wrong. It's is concerning as it shows they are not keeping their eye on the ball, yes they has possibly the best interiors in the world will the nicest materials and in my opinion the prettiest exteriors in mainstream production.

We all know on this forum that Audi has the potential to produce the best all round cars in the world and the RS4 has shown that with one model at least this was achieved. So Audi the ball is in your court, impress.:thumb:

[BBGT2]

Eric,
Thanks for the video it is pretty cool to watch. As far as the performance numbers...... its a sad day at Audi if you ask me. I will not understand why Audi chose to build the S6 and who do they think its a competitor against. They knew what was being offered by the other guys and what they did in terms of performance. If I were to by a car now why would I buy a S6 when there is the awesome RS4 that will compete with the cars mentioned here. Am I missing something here that audi is trying to sat with the S6. I say stop production and get the RS6 done so they can whoop some Benz and Bimmer butt.

Bajo

[SpinEcho]

Originally posted by BBGT2
I will not understand why Audi chose to build the S6 and who do they think its a competitor against.

Why does every car built by Audi have to be a competitor against a particular BMW? Conversely, why when BMW builds a car does it stand on its own? Is it not permitted that Audi can build a car they believe has its own niche?

It seems that perhaps you have bought, hook, line and sinker, the party line promoted by the press for the last decade or more.

[BBGT2]

Originally posted by SpinEcho
Why does every car built by Audi have to be a competitor against a particular BMW? Conversely, why when BMW builds a car does it stand on its own? Is it not permitted that Audi can build a car they believe has its own niche?

It seems that perhaps you have bought, hook, line and sinker, the party line promoted by the press for the last decade or more.

Pardon me, but I have not bought nothing "hook line and sinker". I buy my cars based on my personal choice,and not whats "in". I have had 2 RS6's, so yes I love the Audi brand and do not like what BMW is offering. Going by what Audi is saying "never follow" all I am asking is to do just that and not follow.
"Why does every Audi have to compete with a brand from BMW" ? Because that is where its at. Otherwise all cars would just be a "niche". Its also what they do in racing (compete).
I am not bashing Audi for I would not be buying their products I just dont see the reasoning behind the S6 and that is just my humble opinion. The RS4 and the RS6 are/were awesome cars and as I have in the past chosen an Audi over the best BMW and MBZ gave to offer.
As far as the S6 is concerned "if you cant run with the big dogs, stay on the porch".
Bajo

[SpinEcho]

I apologize for the "hook, line and sinker" bit; it was inflammatory and uncalled for.

But you're missing my point. I'm not talking about why you buy your cars, I'm talking about this idea that's being perpetuated by the press, that every other European sports sedan manufacturer builds their cars solely for the purpose of responding to BMW's latest all-conquering, infallible offering. It's a close-minded theory. For sure, there is a large element of competition involved, but every manufacturer has their niche (eg. Quattro for Audi) that they improve upon and refine with each generation, independent of what BMW is up to.

Look at your own comments: you say you want Audi to obey their "Never follow" maxim, and then you say you don't see the point of the S6. If you're saying you don't see the point of the S6 because it is a poor competitor to the M5 and doesn't "run with the big dogs", I say the S6 was never meant to compete with the M5 and as such it doesn't "follow" the M5: mission accomplished.

[BBGT2]

No need to apologize we are all friends here.

You are very true about the press always giving Audi a hard time.

I was just basically venting about Audi and them always taking their sweet ass time with their hi-perf. vehicles. They always bring out the best they got right before the product line ends, ie last RS6.
I felt like they were just throwing us a bone (weak one) with the S6. I know its not a competitor against the M5 or the E63 its just in that specific market the S6 is what Audi brought to the table.
Anyway I still ahve faith in them and pray the next RS6 blows them all to hell.

Good Day,

Bajo

[SpinEcho]

Yeah, it's all about timing - it's frustrating to see the new M5 strut its stuff for a few years before Audi responds. But someone's always going to be blamed for playing 'catch-up' with BMW, and the way BMW's going with its styling, stupid gadgets and interior quality these days, I don't mind if Audi doesn't catch up to them...

[AndyBG]

Maybe no body is going top be with me on this one, but i think that new C6 S6 isn't bad car at all, and in day to day, ''real world'' use very competitive against BMW and MB, specialy against BMW, they ''brakeing down'' every day, and now it's clear more than ever that 507 hp car can't work with that SMG III transmision.

Plus, 90% of time 90% of M5 drivers are use it in P400 mode, and then i ask, why do you buy a 507 hp car and drive it with 100 hp's on ''resting''???

Personaly, i like new S6, of course RS 6 is going to be something out of this planet, but give a chance to new S6.

All best, Andy :bye:

[QuattroFun]

I am not a friend of RWD in a car as powerful as the M5 nor its SMG box - have not tried the Benz, but the S6 is really too sterile and unfun for its own good when you try to drive it. Yes, in many ways an understated quality act as I suppose it was designed to be: nicely built, about as comfortable (or uncomfortable) as the M5 and the auto is superior to SMG in daily driving and especially in town - but it really is too quiet, slow, heavy, vague and unemotional for me at least. No offense intended.

[AndyBG]

You are 100% wright, there is no many ''emotions'' wehn we are talikng about S6, but 435 hp isn't small power, and in wright hands you can get emotoional in it..., trust me. :revs:

My stand is, that its usebiltiy is its biggest plus, and that S6 should be looked as ''class fot itself'', alltough, Audi sholud bring its RS cars litle faster, so that we can have ''healthy'' competition on ''uber saloon' market.

All best, Andy... :bye:

[Leadfoot]

I agree with AndyBG on the S6. Yes like most quick Audis it a little sterile when compared to a M model, but I will put up with this for the ability to use all of it's power all of the time. This is something you can't say about a M3, M5, M6 or for that matter any Mercedes AMG.

Regarding the argument that everyone develops a car in answer to what BMW has brought out is ridiculous, it's the magazines that make these statements not the manufacturers. Who in their right mind would reckon that a S6 is a competitor for a M5 other than a car mag and they only do it to fill pages. I believe the S6 is more likely to be competing with 550i M/Sport or a E500 Avantgarde, these are cars who performance wise are closer to the S6.

One thing I will say, the S6 on 70% of the time will be just as quick or even quicker than a M5 on UK roads and with UK weather and possibly this will be the same in most of Europe.

It will be interesting to see if the M3 comes out with a power button. If not than it says then that says to me that the SMGIII is only really suitable for around 400hp and not the 500hp of the M5 and M6. On this note, has anyone noticed any of the Magazine reporting the fact that quite a lot of M5 and M6 have had transmission problem, I for one haven't see anything. Does this show what I have thought for a long time, that some car magazines are in the back pockets of car manufacturers.

[AndyBG]

Number of ''mortalitys'' among those SMG III gear-boxes is rediculusly BIG, and yet NO BODY among those ''respective'' magazines and TV shows don't saying anything.

Take a look at any BMW oriented forum, everyday same thread, ''SMG failure'' or ''transmision goes to @#$%''....

Don't know about AMG, i don't heard anybody complaining.

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by AndyBG
Number of ''mortalitys'' among those SMG III gear-boxes is rediculusly BIG, and yet NO BODY among those ''respective'' magazines and TV shows don't saying anything.

Take a look at any BMW oriented forum, everyday same thread, ''SMG failure'' or ''transmision goes to @#$%''....

Don't know about AMG, i don't heard anybody complaining.

So I'm right than about the mags being in the back pocket of some manufacturers.

[M!]

Its a shame that Audi always comes with their RS models so late. By the time the RS6 is out this generation of the A6 model is going to be old, and that makes the RS6 look old.
Same thing with the RS4B7, its a hell of a car, but it came out at the end of the A4model generation, and now when the newA4 is coming, this RS4 is already oldlooking.

I think Audi had to make something about the late delay of the RS6 so they brought the S6 out while we wait for the RS.
WhileBMW and Mercedes comes with their beasts only 2years after a new model is introduced, Audi always wait, and wait for like 4-5years.
Id Audi could just be quicker to launch newRS models it would be moore fair when you compere beasts together......